Ask Slashdot: Software for Youngsters? 168
Maniacal asks:
"I was wondering if there were any games or
software programs out there that could keep
a kid's interest while teaching him or her
the fundamentals of programming. There are
plenty of learning games out there but I
haven't seen any that cover this area."
Maniacal continues...
"When I was a kid in the 80's, the only way to get your computer to do anything was to write programs yourself. So, with BASIC book in hand, I spent hours upon hours out my eyes and teaching myself to program. Computers today have to many things to keep a child interested so that type of exploration is gone. If there aren't any such programs available, then any suggestions about a good language to start with, basic books that a 6-10 year old child could understand, and/or inexpensive compilers would be appreciated."
I remember programs like Logo (which could be considered a language, too) and games like Zork which kept my interest in computers when I was growing up. One concern is that today's games are more distracting, focusing on the environment provided by the game, as opposed to interesting, which focuses on not just the game, but on things external to it as well. Any comments?
Agreed (Score:1)
I want to know about books/programs that will get ANYONE into programming. I know two adult females who are interested and able but not knowledgable.
Go ask ALICE! (Score:1)
http://alice.cs.cmu.edu/
It is an authoring environment for 3D worlds,
aimed at beginners, to teach programming. It uses the Python scripting language which is a good OO language. I also agree with the mindstorms bit, I remember writing Lego/logo programs on an Apple in high school. Cool stuff.
adults and older kids (Score:1)
Carnage Heart for the Playstation (Score:1)
about robots (strictly robots) trashing each other
with guns, missiles, etc. on the moons of jupiter.
the trick is that the game player programs the
robots' AI using a sort of visual programming
language-like environment. you can test your
programs against each other, against the computer,
or against programs by other players.
it may not be a kids game (there is a strategy
element to it) but i know at least one
non-programmer who has gotten interested in
programming after playing this game.
Here too. (Score:1)
- A.P.
--
"One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad
RE: Ask Slashdot (Score:1)
I think the kid should select himself if he wants to do programming or do anything else.
I started with playing games on Commodore. I could
stop the loaded program and modify the BASIC code so that I have more lives in the game. As I grew older the love for programming grew by itself.
Bocharn.
How far off can you be?!? (Score:1)
Just because C is the most widely used doesn't make it better. I mean you have to edit a bunch of unstructured, chaotic source code, then save it, compile it, link it, and then run it *just to test one function*. Ick.
And don't even get me started on having to know beforehand how much stack space your program will use.
My experience... (Score:1)
First, a little history...
When I was a kid of about 7 or 8, my parents bought me and my brother an apple2 clone, the Laser 128K. I loved that thing to death. I spent hours tinkering in the native OS. Then we found an old copy of Apple Dos3 something, I forget the actual name. Anyways, the point is that I spent many hours on this thing, thinking up new and interesting things to write. I wrote my own simple RPG games, experimented with Graphics, creating my own interface to the OS,a slightly graphicalized and hotkeyed one (shame on me!) as well as a rudimentary password system!
When I look back, I am quite proud of those moments. Albeit they didn't take a lot of technical skill to accomplish what I did, what it did require was a little imagination. With a good idea, it seemed anything was possible.
I think that if you want to give your kids, or children in general, an opportunity to become familiar with computers, it has to be something that sparks their imagination. For most kids, this doesn't mean throwing them in front of a computer and say
I'm not demanding that you buy your kids an old Apple][ and a ProDOS disk, although that could hardly be a bad idea
Anyways, there is no definate answer. If you want your children to like computers, you sort of have to put yourself in their place and try to think what they would like. Some kids might like the challenge of learning C, others might enjoy BASIC, HTML, whatever. Just make sure that you focus on developing their imagination, that is the most important part.
-Rumball
PS. In case you're wondering, the Laser 128/128EX came out sometime around 1987 and was one of the only apple 2e/2c clones that I know of. ( that's 128K!)
GNU Robots? (Score:1)
uses Guile (www.gnu.org), a Scheme implementation.
Have played it a few times. Not bad if
you want to have some fun with Scheme.
--
Some idjit rm ~/.netscape/cookies..what is my passwd?
Learning to program---in Tcl? (Score:1)
Obviously your used to a static scope language. Dynamic scoped languages are older, and much more interesting. Who wants to pass be reference when you can really confuse everyone with uplevel (or is it upvar) tricks.
I'll agree that static scoping is a lot easier to program in, a lot easier to read, but it isn't the only way, and you should be exposed to dynamics scoped languages a little just because once in your lifetime it will be useful.
I've programed my 10k lines of TCL/TK, and for the tasks I was doing it was great. Yeah, C has good points, but TCL worked, was easier to program and more readable then your average perl script. Is it a perfect langauge for every task? No, of course not. Is it useful and easy to use? yes.
Might be useful ... (Score:1)
You can poke at it at:
http://www.kluge.net/mqp/
(there's supposed to be a www.robotl.com, but it seems to have gone away.)
Logo (Score:1)
MSWLogo is an extension of UCBLogo that includes a lot of more graphical things, but it only works on Windows :(
I also recently saw a bit about a Java version of Logo. You can find more about that at here [caltech.edu].
I'd highly encourage teaching Logo to a child. It's a great language, far far better than Basic.
Mindstorms (Score:1)
Logo is great, then scheme (Score:1)
Lego Mindstorms... (Score:1)
music lessons! (Score:1)
Nothing teaches structure, style and discipline like professional music lessons and hours of practice.
I hate to suggest this, but... (Score:1)
My step-daughter is 13, and not at all interested in programming, but through her own interested decided she wants to build some web pages. Now she's reading up about Javascript and doing image maps and all sort of stuff. I hope this leads to an interest in technology because she's smart and could be a good engineer/programmer/whatever, but if it doesn't I'm not going to push her.
don't (Score:1)
Teach them math, and they'll feel the urge to learn programming eventually. Programming should be a means to an end, not an end.
Programming for kids and adults. (Score:1)
Conversely, moving from functional to procedural is less of a wrench, and the resulting procedural programs are likely to be more elegant.
Also, newcomers (I'm told) find functional languages easier to learn "cold" than procedural.
Logo (Score:1)
REPEAT 36
GO SQUARE
RIGHT 10
NEXT
END
# SQUARE
REPEAT 4
DRAW 100
RIGHT 90
NEXT
RETURN
...and it makes neat pictures. It's what sparked my interest in programming.
There's a web version at:
http://www.sonic.net/~nbs/webturtle/
Ask Slashdot screens messed up consistently. (Score:1)
Well, if you look at the HTML code, you'll see what's wrong - the problem has to do with how one's browser interprets "width=100%" in an image tag that's inside a table. The image is the little image http://images.slashdot.org/sbs.gif [slashdot.org] - this image forms the bottom of the title bar (in this case, the "Ask Slashdot: Are There Computer Programs Designed to get Youngers Interested in Computers?").
Now, this little image is given a table cell (<TD> element) all to its lonesome. The desired effect is that this image fill up the entire horizontal width of the table cell (hence the width=100% in the IMG tag). Unfortunately, Netscape is (incorrectly) interpretting the 100% as relative to the table one up in the nesting hierarchy, making that image too wide, which then screws up everything else.
The workaround that most slashdot pages employ is to use this image as the TD's background, instead of having a 100% image tag inside it. This is rendered correctly in Netscape.
And good lord, you do not want to run weblint on slashdot-produced code. I shudder at the prospect.
I think the Rob's made the code available, though - some aspiring perl hacker code get their ten minutes of fame by giving that code a thorough cleaning; it really needs it. (And while they were at it, they could make the HTML output have linebreaks every now and then so that bugs would be easier to track down)
Robots in arenas (Score:1)
So there's at least 4 of these 'Robots controlled by a program you write in an arena shooting other robots' type programs.
The real way these things grab you is when you put your program up against your friend's and watch the fight. Then good honest childhood rivalry makes you a better programmer for the next fight.
I just tried freshmeat to get the homepage for RTB but couldn't get in. You try.
Lego Mindstorms... (Score:1)
When she can beat me at an armwrestling match, then I'll let her play with it too.
Until then, it's Elmo's playschool for her!
It depends on the age. (Score:1)
Use WINE! (Score:1)
---------
ZZT and MegaZeux!!!! (Score:1)
...richie
ZZT and MegaZeux!!!! (Score:2)
Each games comes with a built-in programming language (an object-based one) that allows you to program the "robots" in the game. There are also many built-in elements.
My son learned to program ZZT and MegaZeux by himself - by reading the help and by reading other people's code. He was 9 when he started.
I had tried LOGO with him, but he quickly lost interest - it took too long to do anything beyond pretty spirals.
ZZT and MegaZeux run on DOS (although a MegaZeux is being ported to Linux). Here are some links:
www.zeux.org [zeux.org]
My son's Web page [netlabs.net]
Learning to program---in Tcl? (Score:1)
As for languages, I'm not sure Basic is really the answer any more---it looks horribly primitive. Java might be nice, although still a bit complicated. Actually the best bet might be (of all things) Tcl. I know it looks strange but for a first-timer this doesn't really matter. It's simple and (with Tk) you can do all kinds of cool graphics and windowing stuff right from day one.
Learning to program---in Tcl? (Score:1)
I know Tcl does look very strange to people trying it for the first time after C or the like. That doesn't necessarily mean it's inaccessible to the novice programmer. I suggested it because, with Tk, it allows a newcomer to do a lot (especially graphics) very quickly. Tk canvases are really no harder to use than logo turtle graphics, and can do an awful lot more. Most Basics (haven't looked at Visual Basic myself but...) can't come close.
As a career choice? (Score:1)
Links for robot games (Score:2)
Here are links for:
RealTimeBattle [slashdot.org]
GNU Robots [gun.org]
Both run under Linux, both are GPLed.
Doug Loss
Programming, per se? Or structured thinking? (Score:1)
Hope that helps.
Scott.
About taking a class at a community college (Score:1)
What worked for me (Score:1)
Basic, Logo, and those ultra cool Atari, TRS-80, and Commodore machines. I sat down and wrote stupid games and simulations all day long, and taught myself assembler to make them crash more.
But I was already interested; "Wargames" and "Whiz Kids" and the whole blossoming geek culture. Dress your kid funny so he or she can't make friends, and teach them to speak their mind and build within them an intimidating vocabulary. They will either turn to role-playing games, vandalism, computers, or all of the above.
How to find URL (Score:1)
search for asimov.net
get stuff like ftp://ftp.asimov.net
apple.asimov.net
and others that seem to be talking about apple emulators for games.
good luck
report your ultimate findings.
thank you
TI 99/4A BASIC book (Score:1)
Gortek and The Microchips (Score:1)
If you want your kid to learn computers and programming, give him a stock Linux box set up to access the internet, give him the root password, back up the root partition, and cut him loose with some introductory programming books.
Ask Slashdot screens messed up consistently. (Score:1)
Me too... Could be a tag-nesting problem. The problem shows up on the main Ask Slashdot page and on the "reply" page, but not on the "Flat Mode" page, if that helps narrow it down.
It might be worth running the page through a web-lint kind of program to see if a tag is getting dropped or added somewhere.
There are such programs (Score:1)
I did machine control with Pascal and assembly...
Believe me, C is far better for many reasons.
Java would be my choice, in fact my 10-YO has been working his way through the tutorial. Hopefully I'll help him hit critical mass soon.
I have been thinking of this idea of a game/programming environment for quite a while in fact...
sdw
Forget the "Learning Software" - Read a Book (Score:1)
They're OK for entertainment, but don't think you're teaching them creativity or reasoning. Reading them a book does 100X what any "educational software" can do at that age.
(By Junior High though, things change fast. I'm now wondering how to teach my 14 yr old Object Oriented Analysis and Design when they're handing out VB software at school! :-/ )
HTML to JavaScript to Perl (Score:1)
Here's what's going on in my extended family...
First create a web page (yes, I know many people don't consider HTML manipulating to be coding)together, then look at the html and explain the logic patterns in it. Using Notepad, then encourage your kid to create her own. When you upload it, you'll be able to point out and analyze the mistakes together. (That's why I suggest Notepad rather than an HTML editor that points out your mistakes as you make them.)
When she feels comfortable with HTML, start helping her add JavaScript and then Perl to her pages. The Dummies books are definitely written at a level that most kids 8+ can understand.
I would recommend this approach for parents with kids starting anywhere from 8 to 11, depending on their development. Before 8, just keep them around while you code...it's amazing how much they pick up from watching.
JavaBlue, Squeak, ToonTalk (Score:1)
Sorry I don't have URLS for all these, but that's what search engines are for. These are the ones I'm keeping my eye on for when my 2.5 year-old twigs can type :-)
End of an era (Score:1)
I think the driving force that pushed most geeks of our generation into programming was games. Specifically the fantasy that one could master the machine and forge one's own kick-butt arcade creation was a huge motivator as a child.
But for us, we grew up in a time when the standard for great games was Combat on the 2600, not 3-D shooters like Quake. Today's software is so rich it just seems it would be frustrating to be a kid trying to strike out on his/her own. Gee, I made a happy face that flits around a maze eating dots. That's great. We had tools like sprites and PAINT commands. Today, you have your Open GL and malloc()'s. Woo hoo.
Ahh for those simpler times...
C-Robots? Pascal Robots? (Score:1)
Tickle them with Tcl (and Tk) (Score:1)
"button
Tcl/Tk is a real language that is multi-platform and with a lot of real-world support.
We even wrote a small shoot-em-up space invaders type game that my son has learnt to modify.
Send me an email if you want the code. Tcl/Tk can be downloaded from http://www.scriptics.com
MUDs and MUSHes.. (Score:1)
Some places are almost competitive about their coding practices.... competition being something that motivates a lot of teenagers.
But be warned.. there may be social consequences
Squeak (Score:1)
The Morphic environment is a object prototype based programming enviroment. Kids can program Morph objects to do various things, both by using VB-type controls and via code.
Alan Kay, one of the creators, and one of the greatest minds in CS, created Squeak with kids in mind.
Plus, Squeak runs on almost any OS known to man: Unix, Win32, MacOS (PPC, 68K), DOS, Itsy, WinCE, etc...
http://squeak.cs.uiuc.edu
http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu/squeak.1
http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu/SqueakDoc.1
SQUEAK!!! maybee... (Score:1)
Learning programs for kids (Score:1)
BASIC is good for, well, Basics (Score:1)
if s/he really isn't interested in programming, I'd say don't push it. Nobody taught me---I did it all of my own volition. And now, years later, I can't describe the giddy feeling of looking at PERL and going "Oh wow---I know how to do this!"
Amy
heh.. :) (Score:1)
Programming for kids and adults. (Score:2)
This is interesting, because I know at least one other person who was in the same position. She visited her local library and looked for books, and found a few that covered BASIC and Pascal.
IMO, something like Pascal or Turing would be the best choice for a first language, as they are well structured, have straightforward syntax, and give access to most of the features that are actually used in real programming. Once they have the fundamentals down, the student could move to something like C/C++. Starting with C would IMO be a bad idea because the syntax is cryptic as all heck to a novice. Someone who doesn't know how to program can still look at a Pascal or Turing program and see what most of it does. Syntax aside, the three languages mentioned above are similar in structure, so there shouldn't be much of a problem moving to C/C++ after the fundamentals have been grasped.
IMO, Scheme/LISP would be a less than ideal choice. I've used Scheme, and while it is neat and represents an interesting model of programming, IMO C/C++ would be more useful if the person actually wants to do professional programming. IMO the algorithmic model of C/C++ style languages is easier for a novice to grasp than that of LISP/Scheme, also.
BASIC, from what I've seen, is slowly mutating to resemble Pascal. However, it's still easy to write spaghetti in BASIC, while you at least have to try a little harder in Pascal/Turing. I just don't see any advantage to it.
For Pascal vs. Turing, the decision is pretty arbitrary as they're nearly identical. I've written in both, and if you add/remove semicolons and make minor tweaks a Turing program will compile in Pascal or vice versa. Turing does have good multithreading support, OTOH, which Pascal didn't the last time I checked. OTOH, Turing is a lot more reluctant to let you do things like pointer aliasing and messing with assembly code, port i/o (on the x86), etc.
As far as good books are concerned, I can't name any offhand. Ye (new) Olde K&R ANSI C book is decent as a C reference but not good as a tutorial. The local library seems to be a good resource, as my friend did manage to find books that were of use to her.
Programming Environment For Kids (Score:1)
Here is a clip from the web page [homestead.com]:
FUNdaMENTAL is a complex, object-oriented programming language designed specifically for educational purposes. The language is presented in a supportive environment that provides youngsters full access to the creative challenges of real programming at a level just right for them. An optimal technology curriculum for grades six through nine, FUNdaMENTAL can be used and enjoyed by any creative person over the age of nine.
FUNdaMENTAL is proof that the best kind of "fun" comes from rigorous "mental" activity!
--
John Tokash
Homestead Technologies
http://www.homestead.com/hackfurby/
Teach your kids BASIC. And where's VB for Linux? (Score:1)
I've had to clean up after programmers like you: I'm still recovering from the shock of having to deal with a large parts manufacturer's database, only to discover that they had paid $40k for a piece of junk written in basic. The programmers were nowhere to be found. I had hoped that was an isolated case.
You scare me, guy.
More on topic, though, I think basic and forth are both very good options for a starting programming language.
Wow. I remember... (Score:1)
Nowadays, I don't know... My first non-BASIC language on a "real" computer (my 8088) was Turbo Pascal. They still teach that in a lot of high schools... That's what I'd probably recommend, but maybe that was easier for me because I had already been programming in BASIC for five or six years by that time.
I'm interested in hearing opinions as well... I have a two year old that loves playing with my computer. I'd really like to get her interested in something other than games.
--Zak
Why not get them an 8-bit? (Score:1)
Chipwits (Score:1)
rather impressive "Chipwits", which I remember seeing in the
days of thin macs and fat macs. You programmed a little robot
by plugging program modules together on a grid. Basically,
you had to build a flow chart. You had about 8 grids available,
and could use the 7 "extra" ones for subroutines.
It was quite impressive - the game came with a variety of maps
you could program the robot to deal with. You had to teach it
about food, obstacles, bombs, and so on.
Omega (Score:2)
BASIC-ified version of crobots, with rather nicer graphics, and
some Origin-programmed enemies you could defeat.
You also had a limited budget with which to build your cybertank
(until you got to security level 10 and had an infinite budget),
forcing you to decide whether to have faster weapons,
more armour, repair kits, or whatever.
It came with a library of pre-written routines to do things like
follow left-hand walls, or whatever, which you could use
until you wanted/needed to modify or re-implement them entirely
to suit your own needs.
No connection with the roguelike game of the same name, of course.
There's crobots itself, of course.
A geek with a world before him. (Score:1)
For a programing language take a look at Rebol. It's very modern design and straight forward syntax makes a coding a snap. "Rebol in Ten Steps" provides a thorough explanation. http://www.rebol.com/rebolsteps.html
I'm impressed with it's total approach. On the downside it's a messaging language, so there's no graphics or the like to get his attention, pity.
I liked the idea of introducing HTML. Initially, I feel that getting his interest is the most important part. He's still using his skills to create, which is ultimately the goal. With his work up on the Web he can show his friends at school (maybe register a domain, if it proves his thing)
Although males and females use computers differently (solitary versus socially) you could try to include his friends. That way he'll have some geek pals in the school yard to bounce his ideas off.
Music is great. Sadly, kids often aren't interested when their young, but give it a try. Computers have an appeal that a piano or guitar doesn't. When I young was I resisted learning music. Now that I'm older I've come back to the idea, and I'm keen to learn.
Are his reading and verbal skill at a good level? I realize these skills use different parts of the brain, but they really are the most important assets any person can have. Encourage his reading and make him read out loud every day. Anyway he'll need to love reading, for there comes time when a young man must buy his first O'Rielly book.
He's still quite young and hasn't figured out what he wants in life. His computer skills are something he'll always have, but if he decides to be a bohemian fashion designer, that's OK too.
LogoWriter/MicroWorlds or even Hypercard (Score:1)
You have four turtles; each can take any shape or be invisible, which is cool for representing characters in a game. The main window holds graphics, bitmapped text, and text-editor-style text, all programmable. There's even rudimentary event-driven programming--you can tell it what to do when various control-keys are pressed, then do something else in the meantime.
Definitely a lot it couldn't do, but programs were quicker to write and more engaging than my native BASIC. State of the art for my class were races/obstacle courses where the turtle moved inexorably forward while you kept it on the path by pressing control-keys to turn.
LogoWriter was by LCSI. I heard they might have updated/replaced it with MicroWorlds, which I haven't seen.
A step up in complexity and power from LogoWriter is Hypercard. I never got far into it, but the HyperTalk language is English-like, with object-orientation everywhere (each object has its own code area where you can extend its vocabulary). If there's a mac classic around that nobody wants, you could dedicate it to hypercard, which hasn't changed much in the past decade, so it still works fine on slow machines.
Or, slightly far out, how about Squeak, a graphical environment written in Smalltalk, source code included? See squeak.cs.uiuc.edu
Whatever you choose, prefer stuff that's interactive (no compile/run if you just want to try one command) and has a modern approach, like object-orientation and stuff. I guess BASIC is good at showing you how the computer does one thing after another, but it's not a good way to organize programs.
I remember Gertrudes Puzzles on the '64 (Score:1)
found BASIC and started programming.
What about music? (Score:1)
Old machine... (Score:1)
When I was young, my friends all had ataris and nintendos or segas, i had a Vic-20, about 20 tapes and a small stack of thin books on basic. I was forced to use the computer to learn math (it was that or a boring night with dad and a text book)
And it didn't take long before I got curious enough to start writing a few simple programs.
I think a vic-20 now goes for about $10 with a bunch of tapes and accessories at the average yard sale.
Give a kid an old machine, and limit the time they can spend on Mom & Dad's machine (and NO nintendo! Let them play with the neighbor's) You might be surprised at what they will come up with.
Robot Odyssey - Those were the days! (Score:1)
I Remember making a pair of chips, one for a controler and one for a controlee. You told the controlee robot which way to go and how far by banging the controler against the wall. It'd send serial signals to the controlee, and away you went! Neat stuff.
Last I checked, this game was 'out of print' and it was never popular enough that I'd expect to find it in any used software joint. You might get lucky, though. You could also try talking directly to "The Learning Company" they made the game and might (conceivably) have some left in stock. Be sure to ask for the Hard Disk version, though!
(And no, I'm not selling my copy!)
The Incredible Machine (Score:1)
Just checked. You can buy The Incredible Machine 2 or 3 from Sierra. 2 runs on DOS 3 runs on Win 3.1.
Here's a couple of urls:
http://www.sierra.com/store/quicksheet?SKU=8364
http://www.sierra.com/store/quicksheet?SKU=8367
Let me know if you try it. I'd like to know how it works out.
dar
darogers@xnet.com
It's simple... (Score:1)
It's simple... (Score:1)
Slapping some software in front of a kid isn't much motivation. Learning a bit of what a computer could be made to do is.
What about music? (Score:1)
Rocky's Boots (Score:1)
MOOSECrossing: an excellent tool for teaching kids (Score:1)
MOOSE Crossing is a place where kids 13 and under can come to meet other kids from around the world, build new places to hang out, and program cool objects to play with. You could build a swamp next to the forest, a pet store in town, or maybe a disco in The Emerald City. You could make an elephant that tells elephant jokes, or a robot that asks people what they think about nuclear power. The world of MOOSE Crossing is built by kids, for kids. Big people are welcome too--especially teachers looking for interesting activities for their classes.
Basically, MOOSE Crossing is a MOO designed for kids using a custom programming language that lets kids make interesting objects and share them with their friends.
For more information check out: http://www.cc.gatech.edu/~asb/moose-crossing/
MOOSE Crossing is also the subject of my advisor's thesis research. If you are interested that dissertation can be found at: http://www.cc.gatech.edu/~asb/thesis/index.html
Lego Mindstorms... (Score:1)
While I myself have not dredged up the cash or time to grab one myself, it seems the perfect solution...
Its combination of real objects with behaviors and properties, and its programmable nature, combined with the joy of putting things together and seeing them do something, may just be what you're looking form.
Lego Mindstorms is a new type of kit where, besides standard passive blocks, there are active elements; motors, sensors, and a central brick which is programmable via PC (Soon others), which contains the code needed to run anything you build and attach to it. Examples of things already done with the Mindstorms technology; A photocopier, a optical punchcard reader, a robot that follows lines, etc. A cross between Logo, basic, and Lego!
-Twink
Gee, I may be first too!
RoboRally, sort of... (Score:1)
It isn't particularly deep, but it is fun and teaches the basics of planning ahead. Just avoid most of the expansions, or just use the cool boards out of them. SOme of the later rules were just silly.
BASIC (Score:1)
for the PCjr. The book was excellent for kids, it had cartoon characters and projects that were achievable. For instance you could make snow flakes or just simple designs. And yet it still had some practical programs. I could not even fathom trying to learn C or any other complex language at that time. It took me about two years to hit the ceiling with what I could do with basic. (I think I stopped when I tried to start doing texture mapped 3d stuff
Give me a break... (Score:1)
A few months back I saw that interplay (www.interplay.com) was working on a "C for dummies" sorta program that teaches you the basics as well as associates it with basic game programming. I don't see mention of it on their site currently but it's probably there somewhere.
Another good resource... go to a community college and take an intro programming class... good choices would be C, C++ or java. Java probably being the best if you want to learn the concepts of Object Oriented programming.