Ask Slashdot: Comp-Sci Graduate Schools 387
Colonel Kurtz sent in this question which I figured be of interest to some of you: "I'm considering entering graduate school in abouttwo years to pursue a Masters or Ph.D. in Computer Science. I am a good undergraduate student with a passion for CS and I am seeking the academic challenge of grad school. I'm looking for the (un)informed advice of the Slashdot community. Specifically, how should I select a graduate school? Is it worth aiming for the top-tier graduate schools? (like MIT, Stanford, etc.) or should I aim just a little below those (like Purdue or Syracuse?) At this point, I'd be happy to have any kind of discussion about graduate schools."
What are your interests? (Score:1)
GO INTO WORKFORCE FIRST! (Score:1)
The reason for this is two-fold. Companies are forced to pay PhDs and persons with masters degrees more for starting salary. Also companies like to put their employees through their own training programs. Companies like Dell, Inprise, Oracle, and IBM have very extensive training programs.
With the market still going strong right now I would recommend you get a good job NOW, and work on your masters degree later. A good company will even re-imburse you for your tuition. You can get paid while you are doing work coding and going to school on weekends, or nights.
Keep your options open. (Score:1)
It's not necessarily the greatest advice to pick a sub-field at age 20 and think that you'll be doing it your whole life. You still need exposure to a broad background of subjects in Computer Science and other areas of interest (like English and Science and Girls). What you find interesting now, you may later find to be unprofitable or boring. Unless you've got your whole life figured out up to the old folks home, don't commit to a graduate school based on your current interest; pick a good school that provides lots of different opportunities.
Also when considering Grad Schools you've got to consider that advanced degrees aren't necessary in the high-tech field. Unlike other fields, most computer geeks are emminently employable *BEFORE* they graduate. Even if you want to go later, you might want to work for a couple of years in the real world first.
And don't think that your education ends at graduation, you'll learn more at work than you did in school.
BTW, It's sunny and warm and inexpensive and a young person's town in Austin. The University of Texas is the place!
Re:Field of Interest (Score:1)
Field of Interest (Score:5)
It all depends on what you are interested in. Moreover, if you are looking at PhD programs, choose school based on potential advisors rather than overall school reputation.
You didn't give enough information for me to say much about which tier of school you should be looking at. To have a strong chance at the top-tier schools, you should have a strong research record. Preferably published papers (or even techreports), but a recommendation from a Prof. saying that you worked for them is probably good enough.
Here are a few very top schools in the US in each field (from memory -- sorry for any omissions)Visit the school first! (Score:1)
Students will generally tell you both the good and bad things about a place. Be sure to ask them (off the record) about the professors and their personalities. Graduate school isn't about reading books/papers and hacking solo. It is about participating in an academic community and getting to see how experienced people think about new and interesting problems.
Finally, don't worry about the money. $16K per year is more than enough to pay rent, eat good food, make yearly IRA contributions, take a couple of plane trips every year, and even go out every now and then. Just try to avoid the money sink known as an automobile and you'll be fine.
Uber-hightech fields of study (Score:1)
On a similar thread.. Does anyone know of good graduate schools that are doing research into stuff like Nanotechnology, Cybernetics, Biocomputing or anything equally uber-hitech? Or do you know of any specific researchers at an institution doing this sort of thing? (I know thats probably not quite computer science... or even computer engineering... sorry). I just no idea where to even start looking for schools doing research in these areas...
Re:Grad school? Think again! (Score:1)
Cornell's CS school used to be good. Now, the computer facilities [cornell.edu] are second rate -- MIT's creative writing students get access to better.
If you don't believe me, see this press release [cornell.edu]. Look for the quote from Robert Constable.
Re:Field of Interest (Score:2)
Computational Linguistics (AI-related):
If you're interested in stuff like Natural Language Processing, these places are very good. If you are seeking a CS major (rather than linguistics) with a specialization on NLP, I would recommend UPenn as a bit above Stanford (though the opposite would go if you were a linguistics major interested in NLP). As a matter of fact, Stanford this year was looking for a new junior professor for computational linguistics, and of the 6 candidates, 3 were from UPenn, that's how good they are in that area.
I visited both places this year and they're very good. They both do LOTS of very good research in the area, so you'll definitely get chances to do very interesting work. At UPenn, also, lots of CS, Linguistics and Psychology majors hang around the same research center, and take classes in each other's areas, making for a great interdisciplinary approach.
---
How is UNC? (Score:1)
Re:Er, which area? (Score:1)
jason
Re:CMU! (Score:1)
Grad school? Think again! (Score:1)
Beware. Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny.
Here's something I wrote late one night [photo.net] after a few years of grad school:
Keep in mind that I'm not a CS grad student. I'm a semiconductor engineer in EE, where IMHO a Ph.D. makes a lot more sense than it does in CS.
To get a Comp Sci perspective one might ask Philip Greenspun, MIT Ph.D. [photo.net] [emphasis mine]:
If you do go to grad school in CS, stop with the M.S.. There are only two good reasons to get a Ph.D.:
In my field, there are many jobs like this. In CS, I'm not so sure. Bill Gates does just fine with his high school diploma.
I went to grad school because I had fuzzy dreams of being a professor, and because I was intrigued by "the challenge". I was nuts. Now I can only wonder what I might have done if I had gotten some hard-edged advice in time. [swarthmore.edu]
-- Mike
P.S. Cornell has a great CS school. Look me up if you come here. With my luck, I'll probably still be writing my thesis.
Re:Cornell CS (Score:1)
Oops.
So much for my little joke.
I tried to plug my alma mater. I really did. But that quote is devastating.
Grad School in Math... (Score:1)
One thing to be careful of, which no one seems to have mentioned yet : in math, at least, you generally don't select an advisor until 1-2 years into things. It would be a shame to spend 2 years jumping through hoops, only to approach your desired advisor and have them turn you down. The moral of this is two-fold:
1. Never choose a school because you assume you're going to be able to work Dr. Whatsisname -- if they're a big name, they probably already have a full docket of students. So make sure that, wherever you decide to go, there's more than one person you'd like to work with.
2. Your first few semesters are the time to shine. The better you do then, and the more faculty who get a good opinion of you, the better your chances are of getting the advisor you want. Everyone knows who the hot new first-years are.
One other thing -- don't go into grad school for math unless you're absolutely positive its what you want to do. If you can't work up a real passion about anything you've learned so far, don't expect it to come along in grad school. The life of any grad student sucks -- it means at least four more years of eaking out a living with barely enough cash for room and board, while all your undergraduate cohorts are making 5 times your graduate stipend. And it doesn't get any better once you graduate and start looking for a postdoc.
JRaven
Where's your evidence (Score:1)
/. is an American based web-site, with a large amount of American content. Consequently I wouldn't be suprised if the majority of readers were American. But I'm not going to make any made-up claims.
I didn't go to an American university, I wasn't rich, but I work in America as a software engineer: my BSc Comp Sci seems to have been of higher quality than most of my co-workers.
Re:grad school... (Score:1)
This is not the right place for me to bore people with war stories but I must say this do not even think of considering the University of South Carolina!
The experience described in the posting to which I am replying (being left out to dry) is far from unique at both the grad and undergrad level.
I would not enter grad school without a lawyer at my side from day one.
Re:grad school... (Score:1)
I guess then that the greater moral to this story is that no matter what school one chooses, be very careful.
At least at the U. of South Carolina (probably elsewhere too), it is explicitly stated (in fine print) that the catalog is not authorative and that nothing your advisor says is binding upon the University.
As far as I was ever able to tell, there is no written document that is authorative with regards to graduation requirements for the U. of South Carolina. The awarding of degrees is purely discretionary at the whim of a committee. All of this information I learned personally and the hard way.
While you are entering into a contractual agreement, the obligations are purely on the side of the student. I am being quite honest and factual here: my kids will have their relevant college materials reviewed by my lawyer. Caveat emptor...
Experience as a Math grad student. (Score:1)
If you are not in a hurry, then I would suggest doing a master's first. Then the first choice of school and supervisor is not so crucial. Plus, it gives you a chance to figure out exactly what you really want to do. Reading many papers and going to conferences is the only way to determine exactly what you want to do. As an undergrad not many people have an opportunity to do those things.
Doing a masters and then possibly switching means 5+ years whereas a direct PhD can be done in 3, so this route is not for everyone. But, having done a Masters first lets you discover who is doing the most exciting work in the area you love most. So, choose a good, braod, fun school to do a Masters and while doing it decide who to work on a PhD under, then just go wherever they are.
UT Austin (Score:1)
NYU vs. Columbia (Score:1)
Re: NYU (Score:1)
Choose your advisor wisely! (Score:1)
Fox: "What are you working on?"
Rabbit: "My thesis."
Fox: "Hmmmmm. What is it about?"
Rabbit: "Oh, I'm writing about how rabbits eat foxes."
(incredulous pause)
Fox: "That's ridiculous! Any fool knows that rabbits don't eat foxes!"
Rabbit: "Come with me and I'll show you!"
They both disappear into the rabbit's burrow. After a few minutes, gnawing on a fox bone, the rabbit returns to his lap top and resumes typing. Soon a wolf comes along and stops to watch the hard working rabbit. (Tippy-tap, tippy-tap, tippy-tippy-tap).
Wolf: "What's that you are writing?"
Rabbit: "I'm doing a thesis on how rabbits eats wolves."
(loud guffaws).
Wolf: "You don't expect to get such rubbish published, do you?"
Rabbit: "No problem. Do you want to see why?"
The rabbit and the wolf go into the burrow, and again the rabbit returns by himself. This time he is patting his stomach. He goes back to his typing. (Tippy-tap, tippy-tap, tippy-tippy-tap).
Finally a bear comes along and asks, "What are you doing?"
Rabbit: "I'm doing a thesis on how rabbits eats bears."
Bear: "Well that's absurd!"
Rabbit: "Come into my home and I'll show you."
SCENE: Inside the rabbit's burrow. In one corner, there is a pile of fox bones. In another corner is a pile of wolf bones. On the other side of the room a huge lion is belching and picking his teeth.
MORAL:
What matters is who you have for a thesis advisor.
I didn't write it, but it does have some truths in it (but do try to choose a subject that interest you...)
Liran.
Doesn't matter as much as you'd think (Score:1)
Ok, I didn't have much choice when I started, all I knew was that I wanted to do electronics and CS, and I wanted to become an engineer.
Well, that left me with two choices here in Denmark.
Anyway, after my first year, my interests had moved completely away from electronics, and it was CS all the way.
However, I became rather dissatisfied with the CS department (at least with some of it), and numerics and _real_ computing has been my interest for the last years.
My point is, even though I've known ``exactly'' what I wanted since primary school, even CS is such a wide area, and you don't know what your real interests are going to be, before you found some subjects that weren't it.
If it's CS, find a university that does CS. Any university that does CS. You will end up doing stuff you didn't dream about anyway.
You have to get disappointed before you can be really happy. You have to hate subjects, before you can find the ones you love.
(Shit I sound old.
go big (Score:1)
That, and CMU rules [cmu.edu]. Actually, the CS school [cmu.edu]. if top notch. Sorry for the shameless plug. You should really also consider the city, ie whether or not you're going to hate living there.
Andrew Gardner
A slightly different take on the question ... (Score:1)
I was pretty skeptical at first, but tried it (cause lockmart is paying for it
/dev
Terminal masters ... (Score:1)
/dev
Re:UNC guys im lost HELP! (Score:1)
Tanner Lovelace
Ph.D. Student
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
Re:Uber-hightech fields of study (Score:1)
Tanner Lovelace
Ph.D. Student
University of North Carolina
Not where, but what. (Score:1)
On the other hand, you learn a lot when you have to do it all yourself. Er, well, I did, anyway.
Wherever you go though, it'll be fun, and your ultimate success will depend on you and only you. Good luck!
TUCS - a CS Grad-school in Finland (Score:1)
If you are interested to do your graduate studies in Europe, you should check out Turku centre for computer science [www.tucs.fi] in Finland. Everything is in English (of course as 50% of the students come frm outside Finland). You can get full financial support for the studies and living costs. I have been doing research in wavelet image compression there for one year and can fully recommend the school. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me [jole.fi].
Re:UIUC (Score:1)
You hit it on the head here! (Score:1)
Re:UIUC (Score:1)
True enough. I spent six years there (but my graduate work was on the other side of campus -- in microbiology). You know UC is a dull place when Waterloo, Ontario (which even Canadians consider dull) seems interesting in comparison.
Re:Go to another _country_ (Score:1)
Medical school isn't cheap, true. But in a land without socialized medicine, physicans earn extremely high salaries. It isn't too unreasonable to ask medicial students to take out some loans. (And student loans are easily obtainable)
But your suggestion of going to another country is not bad. I'm doing a postdoc in Canada now.
You might want to consider location too (Score:1)
and go anywhere route, then location probably won't
be too important to you.
On the other hand, whatever school you choose
will also determine what city you live in for the next
couple of years. As a guy from a small Oregon
town who went to MIT for my undergrad work, I
realised that the fast paced East Coast way of
life just isn't for me. Oregon isn't exactly a CS
powerhouse, but it's in a beautiful location, and
it's close to my family. I've been able to have
a family and raise my children close to their
grandparents while I persue my degree.
But, my choices would DEFINITELY be different
if I wanted to get a PhD and go into academia,
rather than getting a MS and working for a
Portland area company. The "prestige" of the
school you go to is much more important if you
plan on being an academic researcher. If you
want to go straight into industry after you graduate,
then you can afford to consider quality of life issues
a bit more when you make your decision.
Re:Oh, not sure about a MS or Ph.D.? (Score:1)
UC Berkeley (Score:1)
-doog
Funny.... (Score:1)
Re:GO INTO WORKFORCE FIRST! (Score:1)
Right now is the best time for talented people to get into the real job market. Starting salaries and bonuses are the best they will probably ever be. It is not currently worth your time and effort to pursue an advanced degree. In a few years, consider it. However, right now - experience beats education hands down.
I've seen many people with advanced degrees (people who may or may not actually be able to deal with a real job and real expectactions) turned down in favor of those with less education, but a resume that proves Real World Experience.
Re:GO INTO WORKFORCE FIRST!... *NOT* (Score:1)
Well.... (You're not very clued in about real world jobs I see. No insult intended, but you're in for a hell of a shock.) If little lame mid-manager jobs is what you are after, then you go ahead and take them. Mid-manager jobs are the quickest way to wasting all the education you have worked so hard to get. Soon, you'll be stuck with all kinds of non-technical issues like making little charts about how all the real workers on your team are spending their time, stuck in eternal meetings about ridiculous topics, etc. Within a year, you'll be so far out of touch with the real technology that all you'll be is the butt of "pointy haired idiot" jokes.
Clue in: If you go into a managerial role, you do NOT get to play with the technology much, and you begin the downward spiral to incompetence.
I've been there, done that. It sucks.
Pursue a career path along the lines of "technical leadership" not "managerial leadership". It's a bit more of a challenge, as a lot of companies are just waking up to the concept and really don't know how to implement it.
What you want to be, if you are truely the "Way-SmartGuy" you say you are, is to be the technical leader - the guy who (1) works on the toughest coding problems, (2) is the person who all the "less gifted" come to with technical questions, and (3) who the pointy-hairs consult with to sanity-check their charts and graphs and time commitments. (Oh yah, and the technical leader is generally paid better, more respected, and considered more indispensable, than any of the pointy-hairs... Who do you really want to be??)
Being stuck with managerial responsibility really sucks rocks for those with true technical talent. Those with true technical talent generally don't need the advanced degrees. Face it, the best, most motivated people in the industry usually don't even have bachelor degrees! More power to you if you think you need an MS or PhD, but in the IT industry (as opposed to most other fields) going for the advanced degree is like keeping the training wheels on your bicycle well into puberty - it just ain't needed and in fact will bring you a lot of ridicule. Some dork with a PhD who thinks he's hot shit will cause the resident alpha engineer to spit in his general direction.
(Wow, that was a fun rant :) )
Re:northwestern (Score:1)
Anyone know of anything in particular that's bad?
AR Schleicher
ars@iag.net (ars@nwu.edu is still active)
Your adviser and his/her research (Score:3)
One thing to note is that you will probably be funded off of grant money; your research will be in support of some specific project. Therefore, in most cases you will not have the totally flexibility to pick any research topic of your choosing. Therefore, it is important to check out what work the profs are doing now, not ten years ago. What direction is their work leading to in the future? Remember that most journal articles indicate work done about two to three years ago; hence, check out conference proceedings for the latest stuff (or talk to your profs). It is likely that work that you will be doing has not even been funded yet; your future adviser may be writing the proposal at this moment.
Also keep in mind that profs only have a finite amount of grant money to support their grad students. This usually means the "good" ones have more money, more projects, and hence, more students. This could be good and bad.
My personal experience. I picked a school that had a fairly young and relatively small faculty that were on the rise up in terms of their careers. My adviser was just starting out but had already established a very good scientific reputation. Ppl told me that he also a very nice guy, honest, and easy to work with. My working for him turned out to be a good decision. It also turned out that my fellow grad students were great; we studied hard, played hard, and are friends for life.
Well, actually, they do (Score:1)
You have one intro course (18-100), and two core courses (Fundamentals of EE, and Fundamentals of CE). After that, you pretty much get to choose what area you want to do (electrical, computer, or both). If you want to learn more about the program, check out these two links:
The CMU ECE Home Page [cmu.edu]
Overview of the B.S. in Electrical and Computer Engineering at CMU [cmu.edu]
My experience here in the ECE program has been great. The program is nop-notch, and very flexible. Anyway, check the links if you want the details of how the program works.
Austin inexpensive? (Score:1)
That said, UT Austin is a decent, and very inexpensive (in terms of tuition) university, with an above-average CS department.
And yes, Austin as a town is a lot of fun.
Quote (Score:1)
Graphics (Score:1)
Re:Er, which area? (Score:1)
And yes, I am a GaTech grad. (MSCS '99)
--Ivan, weenie NT4 user, Jon Katz hater: bite me!
Re:Field of Interest (Score:1)
Forget school for a while... (Score:1)
As far as schools, I would put in a vote for CMU. Simply based on the results that the school is producing in the CS fields lately.
U. of Rochester (Score:1)
Let me suggest my undergraduate alma mater: The University of Rochester. They have done seminal work on parallel computation, vision, robotics, AI (mostly NL understanding), cognitive science, and theory. They are a PhD-centric department, and very small (about 50 grad students, and 25 faculty. They are very well endowed, and I think highly of the faculty there. I think this would be ideal for the prospective student that wanted a small, intimate department. For more info: http://www.cs.rochester.edu.
Re:Funny.... (Score:1)
Best school for OO software construction? (Score:1)
Re:Where's your evidence (Score:1)
>the Slashdot readers are American (?), I don't >think it's a bad or biased or unfair topic.
Does that sound like I'm quoting researched material? The "what" and the questionmark? I guess the English classes weren't quite up to par with the CS classes at that high quality education of yours.
No, I cannot validate my figures. Yes, I just made them up. Yes, it was a fairly educated guess, but still a rough estimate. Sheesh.
I know they don't! (Score:1)
But I'm shocked, good Sir! For pronounciation, surely you must turn to Oxford's "The Advanced Learner's Dictionary of Current English" rather than the standard dictionary?
Re:Best school for OO software construction? (Score:1)
Re:Germany (Score:1)
Not for the grad school. It is nonexistent - in the way Americans expect it. I have got my diploma from the Physics department there. It is a good equivalent of MS degree here. In the grad school you just write your thesis and hardly get any additional education except for your narrow field. I would claim it is impossible after american style college. Moscow State is the best place to get your undergraduate in Physics or Math. You actually learn something...
Cal Sucks.. (Score:1)
Why was this moderated down? (Score:1)
It's the system (Score:1)
Top-tier? (Score:1)
Sounds to me like you have a lot of research to do. Also, don't hesitate to fly out to a school to check it out (small investment in the big picture). If the faculty member you are interested in working with is not receptive, you can make a big part of you decision based on that and the environment you see there.
I actually am pursuing my PhD at the school I attended for my BS and my MSE. I knew the environemtn here and knew that it was right for me and what I want to research.
Good luck in your decisions.
Decrease in salary no problem (Score:1)
Then I worked at another company doing support and maintenance of their lousy code. Often times it was screaming at me to fix it, but if it wasn't on the list of bugs we were supposed to fix, I couldn't. Some of it was so ugly and I just wanted to improve it, but it was considered too much of a risk.
At Rice I had so much fun because even though I was coding something I was asked to do, I had considerable freedom in the coding itself and could actually talk to other people about what I was doing. Now I spend so much of my time wishing that I could work on this or that dream program of mine. Usually I want to write it to illustrate some kind of principle I have devised [csoft.net]. I would get a big kick out of writing detailed documents explaining exactly what my theory is. That's exactly what research is.
I have begun a new job teaching CS at a local community college. Tomorrow is my first day teaching. The salary cut doesn't bother me, despite what some have said above. I have to be doing what I enjoy. If the teaching works out, I think that's a sure sign I need to go back to school. As for GRE scores, I recently trained with the Princeton Review to teach their GRE course. Not a problem. The only thing I'm concerned about is finding faculty recommendations. I might need to take a couple of classes to get to know some more professors.
lets see where are the big companys puting MONEY (Score:1)
lets face it people talk of MIT, Stanford etc
but pray tell where is the most recogised Uni or gets more research money CAMBRIDGE !
no not the fake one
just trying to make a point if you go do research somewhere else in the world people think you are better. You experance more being in a differant place. You might as well because if you live any distance from home you have to get on a plane !
so why not cross some water ?
do the reserach that you want to not just go to the place you want to ! it makes a big differance if your prof is into the same things as you.
Japan is cool UK is good so are the germans hell travel and get sponsered (if you can get a sponsor they help out with food, traveling improves your chances of geting one)
but LIVE
john jones
a poor student @ bournemouth uni in the UK (a deltic so please dont moan about spelling but the content)
Re:Field of Interest (Score:1)
and yes go into industry for a while then go back to studying
a poor student @ bournemouth uni in the UK (a deltic so please dont moan about spelling but the content)
Re: Open source science! (Score:1)
I opted for a Master's over a Ph.D. partly because I want to switch topics (and get a Ph.D. elsewhere) but also because of the politics in the environment--I just want to get of there for a while.
Getting a Ph.D. puts you in the heart of highly political academia, and since some fields are pretty much Ph.D.-only, like science, the subjugates can't avoid it.
In my frustration with the political nature of science, I started "The Open Lab", which applies the Open Source Software model to science (the former was modeled after the ideal of the latter; but we ought to strive for that ideal):
http://theopenlab.uml.edu/ [uml.edu]
This sort of thing has cropped up before. And it has always been due to human error.
Re:Funny.... (Score:1)
Re:Beckman Institute is amazing (Score:1)
student. Our lab is on the other side
of the wall from the "cave", i.e. immersive
3-d display (VR) system. As far as I can tell
all the power is used to play games, at least
that's the only sounds that come from there.
OTOH, the number of SGI's per square inch
is impressive.
Re:Beckman Institute is amazing (Score:1)
U of I.. uhm.. 'asked me to leave' as an undergrad in 94, So I missed out on alot of cool stuff. Personally one of the reasons I think I had trouble there was because the CS curiculum was designed by researchers and geared towards creating the next generation of researchers. I had some friends there in grad programs and from what I understand it's an incredible grad school. Part of me is sad to have missed out, but a larger more practical part of me is happy I dont have to deal with rigorous academics anymore. Keep in mind that UIUC is also a huge liberal arts school so not everyone is there to study. This may be a good, or bad thing for you.
-Rich
RE: CS Grad School (Score:1)
Pasadena shore is purdy, too...
Re:cost (Score:1)
- Tim
Re:UIUC (Score:1)
"systems programming" (Score:1)
When I got my MSCS from UW/Madison (1979-1981), I wrote tens of thousands of lines of code: compilers, interpreters, a database management system, even mock operating systems and device drivers. I believe it immensely strengthened my programming skills.
Interesting thing about MSCS programs: they have (or had at the time) huge numbers of students with BS (or even BA) degrees in fields other than computer science. (I started with a BS in Physics and an MS in Mathematics.) The non-CS majors weren't coddled; there were a couple of senior level classes we could take for graduate credit to "catch up", but we were expected to learn C and Unix based on a couple of one hour (each) supplemental lectures.
did he say "american schools only"!?!? (Score:1)
Read the original article...
Now perhaps it just happens that most of the posters here are American, ergo all the suggestions for US schools.
Re:Funny.... (Score:1)
oh Canada! (Score:1)
WORKING (Score:1)
Re:Suggestions for network concentrations? (Score:1)
Caltech ain't what it used to be (Score:1)
I went back there the other day. Was very depressed to see how quiet it was. Not like back in my day, when men were men, and the sheep were scared.
Now its like a graveyard
Re:Grad School Selection (Score:1)
Send at least one application each to a school of the first rank, a school of the second rank, and a school of the third rank. Send additional applications to schools of the rank that you think you can get in.
The above scheme is intended to ensure that you do get into something, but don't have to settle for less than the best that you can get in to.
Princeton (Score:1)
If you're into theory/algorithms, it's a pretty hard core place. Sedgewick, Tarjan, and their buddies can compete with anybody out there in the field (IMHO, Donald Knuth would be an exception to that statement). A lot of the folks on this side of the department say that the best CS grad student was a math undergrad student.
There's also a new program in applied and computational computing [princeton.edu] which looks really promising. It's all about integrating CS and other fields that require intensive computer modeling, and they're putting some very cool folks in the program.
Also a pretty strong program in computer/network security, but I don't find that stuff so interesting, so I couldn't tell you much (except that Ed Felten, the government's tech guy in the MS case is involved in that program).
So, basically, I think I agree with the overwhelming sentiment of the others here today: the school you choose should depend on what you want to do.
Re:Computer Technology is a great undergrad degree (Score:1)
Anyways, CPT (computer technology) was the CS washout program when I was there. Heh.
U. of Maryland (Score:1)
Or are we going to be strictly midwestern (UofI, Purdue, CMU...) and left-coast (CalTech, Stanford, UCB...) biased?
Re:beef (Score:1)
Grad School choices (Score:1)
Any ways in the end you have to find a school that fits your character, and no matter what don't worry about money[1] because it will only stop you from taking chances, and maybe getting lucky.
1. After Y2K every thing will be barter
Workforce first, have them pay. (Score:1)
If you aren't sure that you want to get a Ph.D. get some experience first. I knew that I wanted to get a Master's but wasn't sure if I would get in to, or wanted to deal with the hassles of applying to a "top-tier" school. So, I looked for employment at a place that already had a close relationship with one of those schools (MIT Lincoln Lab [mit.edu]). Now they pay my tutition and my regular salary with only a one year "stay with us" clause. It turned out to be a great job anyway.
International Requirements (Score:1)
Paper on CS Grad School/Student (Score:1)
to be a CS grad student, and how to choose a grad
school. I wish I had read it before I chose my
(EE) grad school.
10/5/98
Some years ago now, I wrote a paper called "How to Succeed in Graduate
School: A Guide for Students and Advisors," that is publicly available
on the net. (The original version of the paper was called, "How to Be
a Good Graduate Student / Advisor.") It contains a lot of suggestions
on finding an advisor and a thesis topic, doing research, writing the
thesis, and establishing a research network, among other things.
Pointers to HTML, postscript, and latex versions of the paper are
available at my home page (http://www.erg.sri.com/people/marie/), and
listed below.
The latest version of the paper is also available by ftp at
ftp.erg.sri.com. There is a latex file (advice.tex.Z), with four
additional input files (advice.bib.Z, the BibTeX bibliography,
fullpage.sty.Z, a style file to make the text portion of the page
larger, named.sty.Z and named.bst.Z, bibliography style files),
and a postscript version (advice.ps.Z). All of the files are
compressed
(hence the
ftp to ftp.erg.sri.com, login as anonymous, and give your
e-mail address as the password
'cd pub/ITAD/advice'
type 'bin' to the ftp prompt to turn on binary file retrieval mode
use the 'get' command to take whichever files you want.
To uncompress the files, just do 'uncompress
To generate the latex output, copy the first three files, run
'latex advice,' then 'bibtex advice,' then latex twice more
to incorporate all of the references.
The paper was published in two parts in issues 1.2 and 1.3 of
Crossroads, the online ACM student magazine, available at:
http://info.acm.org/crossroads/xrds1-2/advice1.ht
http://info.acm.org/crossroads/xrds1-3/advice2.ht
The Crossroads home page is at
http://info.acm.org/crossroads/
gopher://info.acm.org/11[the_files.pubs.magazines
ftp://info.acm.org/pubs/magazines/crossroads/
HTML versions of the original paper can be found at:
http://www.cs.umbc.edu/www/graduate/advice/advice
http://www.cs.indiana.edu/how.2b/how.2b.html
U. Indiana's "What Every New Grad Student Should Know," which points
to this HTML version as well as Phil Agre's networking paper and other
useful resources, is at:
http://www.cs.indiana.edu/docproject/grad.stuff.h
The paper was also reprinted in the Winter 1995 issue of the IAPPP
(International Amateur-Professional Photoelectric Photometry)
Communications, and in a shorter form in Vivek, an India-based
quarterly in AI.
Some of the references in the paper are incomplete (or possibly
incorrect). If anyone has more complete bibligraphic information for
any of the references, I'd appreciate it if you would send it to me.
Comments and feedback on the paper are also very welcome.
Marie
P.S. Another useful web page is Dave Burrell's "Getting In: An
Applicant's Guide to Graduate School Admissions," at
http://mail.h-net.msu.edu/~burrell/guide/ . A mailing list that
may be of interest to female graduate students is the systers-students
mailing list (see http://www-anw.cs.umass.edu/~amy/systers.html ).
What about undergradute studies? (Score:1)
I am planing on going to the U.S. next year
myself, to study C.S. at the undergraduate
level.
I'm planning on applying to at least the University of Maryland (www.umd.edu), and
South Carolina State University as a backup, plus
two more I haven't selected yet.
I chose UMD because they seem to
* have many courses that interests me
* they don't brag about their "Macs and PC:s" (meaning MacOS and Windows)[1].
* are just about within my financial range
(around $22k total per year, for an international
student, including residency).
* they claim to have a highly ranked C.S.
department
Am I making a misstake? Does anyone know more about UMD (or SCSU for that matter)?
[1] I honestly can't take a C.S. department seriously if all they do is teach students how to use Microsoft products and click around in MacOS.
And I also want to learn more about Unix (because
I'm far from being an expert, even if I love Linux).
Re:Grad School Selection (Score:1)
I agree, but would suggest a further step--find a good supervisor. I'm a CS grad student now and can assure you that your supervisor makes or breaks your experience.
Go to the school and talk to some of the people in your area and find someone you can work well with.
Don't be sucked in by a big name researcher either. You're going to be working with this person closely and the shine of having a well known supervisor will wear off quickly.
Glasgow's Miles Better (Score:1)
Re:Funny.... (Score:1)
My 2 cents. (Score:3)
Seriously though, if you decide to go to graduate school, you will help yourself greatly by doing the following:
1) Talk to graduate students from any of the schools that you are considering attending. They will be able to tell you the real deal about their school. You might also be able to judge how bright a department's grads are when you talk to them. A lot of smart grads is usually a good sign.
2) Find out something about the school's location. Even though you will be involved with classes and research most of the time, you want to make sure that when you actually have free time, that there's something to do.
3) Make sure that the school's aid package is enough to pay the rent and eat. That is, unless you are your parents are rich. Make sure that you know exactly what your expenses are, e.g., tuition, fees and health insurance. Any good Ph.D. program will pay most of these for you. Don't be shy asking about the size of stipends or fellowships. And make sure that you'll be funded throughout your tenure as a student.
4) Know exactly why you're going to graduate school. You will get depressed and start doubting your decision to go to graduate school. Especially when your friend's make $10,000,000 when their stock vests. It's good to be able to reassure yourself that you made the right choice when this happens.
5) Visit Ron Azuma's guide to being a PhD student. [unc.edu]
Hope this helps.
EvilKevin
Re:Funny.... (Score:2)
I don't agree at all. I'm not exactly planning to do my graduate studies in America, but it is an option, so I am interested in hearing what goes and what doesn't.
Obviously it isn't a too interesting topic if you are not interested in graduate studies, but I think you can show at least a little tolerance. And hey, American students can come here (Europe) to study, so pitch our schools at him them.
Anyone have some opinions for those of us more into Math than CS?
-
Re:Funny.... (Score:2)
CS is applied Math. Sorta like digging is applied Geology, and playing with shit is applied Biology.
Sorry, couldn't resist
-
Re:Grad School Selection (Score:2)
Grad Schools are really competitive, so right now while you have plenty of time left as an undergrad, start improving your chances of getting in. You can do this in lots of ways.
Remember, though, that grad schools really pay attention to letters of references from past professors that show how well you can do work (and possibly research). Meet a professor in your department who is doing research on something you find interesting and offer them your services. Learn a little bit about CS research.
When you get up to senior-status, talk to some professors about taking on a class as a non-teaching TA. Profs and GTAs always appreciate all the help you can offer. TA one of the introductory CS classes with 100 people.
Both of these things will help you get better letters of recommendation, and at the same time, you will get a much better idea of whether or not the grad student life is for you.
Also, when you start to get into the higher-level courses, take some graduate-level courses. Most schools won't let you take the higher-level grad courses, but the introductory ones should be accessible. This will help prepare for the amount of reading and work that your classes will involve in grad school.
If I think of other helpful tips, I'll respond to my message again. :)
Sam Jooky
sapienza@holly.colostate.edu [mailto]
Grad School Selection (Score:4)
When you're selecting a grad school don't just put a bunch of school names on a dartboard and throw a dart to choose. Figure out what interests you in CS. Which subfield makes you cream your jeans? AI? Parallel Processing? Computer Graphics? You need to have a semi-narrow choice.
Once you've figured that part out, then start looking at grad schools. Don't go pick a school and then figure out what you want to study. That's a recipe for unhappiness.
Most CS departments list on their webpages which fields they specialize in. Find the profs at the school who teach your interest and email them about the sort of program of study they offer.
And don't forget to use the profs at your current school. They're in the field and can probably point you in a good direction for a good school, and if not, they're in a better position than you to find out where the best [insert your interest here] school is located.
Talk to the grad students at your school, too. They've been through this process before and can probably offer you good advice.
In short, don't just jump into a CS grad program because you like the school -- make sure they'll teach you what you want to learn.
And if you're interested in AI, Software Engineering or Parallel and Distributed Computation, come out to Colorado State University [colostate.edu]! :)
Hope this was semi-helpful and not totally redundant.
Sam Jooky
Re:Field of Interest - Embedded Systems Design (Score:2)
grad school... (Score:2)
But if you are planning on a Ph.D. (Most of the
top schools will actually pay you to geta Ph.D.
getting funding at the masters level is usually
improbably or impossible.) My advice would be
that your selection of advisor is as, or more,
important than your selection of school.
You can go to the best school with the fanciest
labs but if the professor in charge of the
lab isn't your advisor chances are you aren't
ever going to see that lab except for maybe
course work.
Your advisor also determines the topics of
research that you work on. You'll start by
doing work related to their interest, not yours
(Its what you get paid for.) This will ultimately
lead to your Dissertation topic.
So the advisor has an extreme amount of inffluence
on what you have access to and what your topics
will be.
I would also suggest trying to pick an advisor
that already has tenure. I didn't and my
advisor picked up in the middle of my dissertation
and switched schools leaving me without a lot of
fundamental support. And the school didn't have
any protocol for what to do with a fifth year
grad. student with a thesis topic and no advisor
so I felt I was left out to dry. I think a
professor with tenure and a well established lab
is less likely to leave you hanging.
my $0.02
Re:CMU! (Score:2)
are generally regarded as tied for #1. Also very
good are Washington, Wisconsin, Harvard, Princeton. (Disclaimer: I got my CS PhD from CMU
in operating systems in 1997. I also spent 18
months at U Washington so my view of who is good
is influenced by who was publishing good OS
papers in the early 1990s.)
If you know what area you want to work in
(ie architecture, databases, operating systems,
AI, etc), figure out who the top people in the
field are and apply to those schools. For example
UNC is world class in computer graphics. 90%
of CS grad school is who your advisor is. A
good advisor teaches you the right stuff and
hooks you up with the right people. A bad advisor wastes 5 years of your life.
The nice thing about CMU CS is that they take better care of their students than most places:
Everyone gets a fellowship and the cost of living
in Pittsburgh is much lower than Boston or Bay
Area. This is a key concern when you are
trying to live on $16k per year. On the other
hand, CMU has the worst industry interaction of
the top schools since Pittsburgh is so far from
where the real action is.
thoughts from going through this twice... (Score:5)
of Washington (in Seattle, WA). I've been here two years, and i was in
grad school at UC-Berkeley for a year before that. The following is
random, biased opinion based only on going through the
grad-school-picking exercise twice. BTW, i love both the University of Washington and UC-Berkeley. ]
o First, read this page on "Choosing Graduate School in Computer Science":
http://www.cs.washington.edu/homes/rap/grads.html
This page was put together by Rachel Pottinger, also at the University of
Washington.
o Next, find a list of CS grad programs. usnews.com is one place to
start. Another is:
http://www.cra.org/statistics/nrcstudy2/rankcs.
o Surf the web to find out about the programs that seem most
interesting to you, based at first on their location and ranking. Look
at what kind of research is going on, how big the department is, and
for faculty whose interests match your own. Be aware that research
project web sites are often a year or two out of date; they tend to be
made at the beginning of research projects and fall out of date as the
research progresses. The list of publications on the project home page
or grad student home pages tends to be far more indicative of what
(and how much) is going on than the rhetoric at the top of project
home pages.
o You don't need to necessarily shoot for the very top programs, but
from the schools that seem interesting to you, pick a dozen or so and
write for applications in September of your senior year.
o Pick a set of at least 5-6 of the best schools that you think you
have a shot at. Rankings aren't everything, but for better or worse,
departmental reputations are real, and you do want smart, fun
officemates with whom to collaborate and hang out, a good advisor that
knows something about how to do research, and a department with lots
of interesting things going on.
o In December, apply to at least 5-6 schools. You never know how many
you'll get into, or which ones they'll be, so apply to a few you
aren't sure if you'll get into; you may be pleasantly surprised. When
possible, you may want to wait until fall semester/quarter is over
before applying, since doing the applications can be time
consuming. But remember to get transcripts and recommendations done in
time.
o In February, March, and April you should get several admission
offers, and hopefully a rejection letter or two, if you picked schools
well!
picking up the tab, so you may as well take advantage of it! Even for
schools where you think there's only a small chance you'd end up
there, you'll learn a lot about grad school and hot research topics by
talking with grad students and professors. These are going to be
colleagues that you'll be seeing at conferences and whose papers
you'll be reading; visiting grad schools is a great way to meet them
and get 30 minutes of great one-on-one time with them.
o Pick the school where you feel most at home; the school where you
hit it off with at least a few professors doing research you think is
interesting, you get along with the grad students, you like the
campus, and you like the city where the campus is located. Remember,
you may be there for 5-7 years if you go for a PhD, so you want to
know that you'll enjoy the whole environment for a long period of
time.
o When picking schools, don't sweat the money stuff. Nearly all decent
grad students at nearly all decent CS departments have no problems
finding funding, be it with TA-ships or research assistantships. You
may have to TA your first year or longer, but that's a good experience
in and of itself.
o Remember that in the end, the school only matters so much. One thing
i learned from transferring between grad schools is that what you do
and how you spend your time has far more to do with your grad school
experience than where you go. You'll want to pick a grad program with
good people and good tools, but in the end, it's up to you!
Hope that helps,
Neal