Expanding Vulnerability of the Net 185
Rei asks: "The recent article by Jane's left me contemplative. The recent commercial trend seems to be to put everything online - from cellular phones to refrigerators to toasters. These devices have their software typically non-upgradable. An increased number of systems in a particular location, with increasingly diverse operating systems, with real-world effects, places an increased danger from crackers in the future. Imagine the effects of a script kiddie finding a way to extinguish a pilot light in a heater, or to cause a fire in a device like a toaster or coffee maker. And do sysadmins really have the time to do a firmware upgrade in all the air conditioners or elevators in a building, let alone virtually every mechanical device which industry sees fit to give an IP? Before the greatest physical damage that could be done was to flash a BIOS so the machine wouldn't boot. But now we have oncoming the capacity for much, much more. How will the world deal with it?" This has worried me for a while. More often than not, the drive to commercialize a new tecnology always comes before we've accurately predicted how it will effect us. So how will millions of potential network security holes affect us in future when everything is networked?
Technology will find its denominator (Score:1)
Crazy Prophesies (Score:1)
If what I said is nonsense,
I'm making a point with it.
If what I said makes perfect sense,
you obviously missed the point.
Firewalls (Score:1)
Firewalls allow us the option to only maintain a single choke point, instead of having harden everything with an IP in a network.
Now the question is how the average home user will setup a firewall
Workarounds will rule. (Score:1)
Which isn't to say that your concerns aren't valid, I think the MicroSloth Fridge v3.1 will make the one from Ghostbusters look tame after it's been cracked by everybody from BOFHen to kiddies for the fun of it.
My concern is privacy. What happens to your health insurance when your HMO knows you live on buttered poptarts and Coors?
Most things can easily be made updateable... (Score:2)
There's been discussion of this movement before, some people have dubbed it "Ubiquitous Computing." I know that Xerox's PARC facility is doing something with this, and we just had a building here at Caltech dedicated to the idea of Ubiquitous computing. http://www.caltech.edu/~media/Press_Releases/PR11
It's going to be cool. They're talking about putting a large transceiver on top of our largest building, giving palmtops to every student, and having wireless internet access to anyone with a direct line of site to the transceiver. We do this, then move on to toasters
Re:Technology will find its denominator (Score:1)
If what I said is nonsense,
I'm making a point with it.
If what I said makes perfect sense,
you obviously missed the point.
Re:Crazy Prophesies (Score:1)
Seriously though, things like that wouldn't be terribly bad. Being able to set preferences about how your kitchen appliances operate, etc. would be a great step forward in usability. Intelligent networking would be even better for tech-oriented types. Only problem is the price tag.....
Improbable (Score:1)
Sure cellular phones might have access to the internet, but the non-permanent state of them being online and the limited damage that one could do to a cell phone represent an almost built in security for those (disregarding the saftey and privacy issues).
It seems to me that perhaps the biggest problem in internet and LAN security will be the emergence of Cable and DSL as ways to connect to the internet. Now we have many people permanently connected to the internet. Script kiddies or any malicous hacker could probably find a way to monitor ones traffic especially w/ static ip's becoming more and more common, especially after the introduction of the new IP address scheme. So now you have the average user, mom, dad or sister or whatever connected permanently to a network with not always friendly people on it. And if Liunx is to become mainstream, it will present an ever greater problem. While windows may not be the ideal operating system, just because of it's lack of remote administration tools makes it a hell of a lot safer than an average redhat install. And let's face it, if Linux becomes the OS of choice, you will have many people installing Red Hat or whatnot without knowing what half of the daemons are that will be running. So Joe Blow will be permanently connected to the net, perhaps running telnetd ftpd sendmail and god knows what else. And the idea of keeping those services and packages up to date is probably beyond most average people's comprehension. So this seems to be a much larger problem than worrying about weather or not some damn 14 year old is gonna burn my toast.
Cheers,
Steve
Simple... (Score:1)
Simple - people won't use it. If my fridge can get hacked, I won't buy it. The average consumer may be a moron, but s/he is also pretty demanding. Furnaces that can be hacked simply won't sell unless a model is worked out so that they _aren't_ hacked.
LL
Embedded devices (Score:3)
The simple fact is this whole embedded appliance thing is a toy idea. Briefly interesting, of limited usefulness, and ultimately will be discarded as embedded devices start crashing left and right, or screwing up in a variety of entertaining and lethal ways.
The only people making money in net-enabled appliances will be, IMO, the early entries marketing to those rampaging toy-driven geeks who'll pay top buck... although IANAEAM (I Am Not An Embedded Appliance Marketer).
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rickf@transpect.SPAM-B-GONE.net (remove the SPAM-B-GONE bit)
legal implications (Score:1)
Possible scenario (Score:2)
So extend it further. You can hook your electric oven/stove up to your home computer network and control it turning on and off. This is course is so that roast you stuck in it will cook for 4 hours while you are not paying attention. You control everything from your handy PC that you got prepackaged from a store.
So it's Windows NT (the computer) and the stove is on embedded linux. Someone has broken into your computer (due to bad security ACL's and user stupidity--let's say a trojan is installed). (Insert another operating system in place if you like, and change trojan to "race condition" for example).
Now the stove might have all sorts of safeguards. But let's say that your computer is connected to the internet (cable modem) and a second network card connects to your home network. Now that the attacker is into your network, he can send stuff to your stove. But the built-in safeguards prevent problems (i.e. high temperature override shutdown, etc).
Now after he's had access for a few weeks, let's say a linux problem is found. Some psychopath goes over his list of compromised home networks, and looks for everyone with a Stove running some particular variant of linux (or whatever). Now he goes and sets them all on permanent self-clean mode. If you are not home, and don't notice it, your house eventually catches on fire.
Of course this is exaggerated. Any properly designed appliance will have thermal fuses and stuff not subject to computer control. Just don't get complacent and assume that computer controlled sensors and controls can replace these.
Disposable Society (Score:1)
Well, with electronic devices becoming more and more disposable (see This one [slashdot.org] two articles down), who cares about the software they run.
I can see it now:
- Toaster burn down the kitchen?
- Refrigerator froze your cat?
- Coffee machine spitting fire again?
Well, throw that old misbehaving device into that landfill over there and pick up New Device v2.0! Now with %20 less catastrophies!Seriously, the lifespan of all of these little do-hickeys is becoming shorter and shorter - causing more and more of them to end up in a big trash heap. Somehow, this doesn't seem very intelligent - yet, there's this little voice whispering in my ear Don't worry, we'll just dig a bigger hole. I think it's the Taco Bell dog...
Re:Crazy Prophesies (Score:1)
If what I said is nonsense,
I'm making a point with it.
If what I said makes perfect sense,
you obviously missed the point.
Re:Firewalls (Score:1)
Now the question is how the average home user will setup a firewall ...
Isn't this why Cobalt stock is selling like hotcakes?
It's a big damn problem indeed (Score:1)
It's not even enough that these devices be safe from changing of settings, though. Even the reading settings must be strictly controlled. For instance, your furnace programming might make a perfect day schedule for a burglar looking for a score. Hell, even the time you have your toast every day might be used by marketing bozos.
So, we need strict access control and authentication, but make it easy. Smart cards or similar tokens are probably part of the answer, but there is still a long way to go before this is viable.
What I'm afraid of is that the industry will pull another SNMP nightmare. SNMP was in a huge demand and so it was rushed out the standards door with no real security. After that, it took two tries to get it even close to right and that assumes the v3.0 is actually good. And get this, SNMP let's you configure and view information on your network infrastructure! The very first thing of interest to an attacker!
If everything in the house wired is going to be a good thing, we need a nice standard for a cryptographic token and its use over an open network. It has to provide for lightweight servers (appliances) and be easy enough that Joe normal can use it. Finally, we need some sort of standard about how these devices come configured: for instance, a default safe mode where the user actually has to work to shoot himself in the foot.
Nuff ranting for now,
Tom
When appliances work together... (Score:1)
The possible vulnerabilities could be far more subtle than 'making the fridge catch fire'. When all the appliances in one's home are networked and controllable, there could arise opportunity for two or more devices to collaborate and cause disaster (by which I mean both devices are controlled by some malicious outsider).
A contrived scenario: You're in the bathroom. The fire control sprinklers suddenly start, as do all your electrical appliances, electrocuting you to death...
I don't intend the above as a particularly realistic scene, but I hope you see my point. If applicances are open to attack, an attacker can cause you trouble. But, for each extra device which might also be used, the number of options an attacker has increases tremendously.
Re:Firewalls (Score:1)
Well one possibility would be that a firewall would be another appliance, like a home alarm is now. There could be a protocol designed that the firewall would send out a broadcast on the protected side of itself asking for devices and they'd all respond with what they are and based on that the firewall would know what to let through or whatever.
The idea probably has lots of holes in it, but it's just the first thing I thought of off the top of my (bored of work and caffeine affected) head.
Re:Technology will find its denominator (Score:2)
And what planet are *you* living on?
No, people will adopt any half-assed technology at all if it promises to reorder beer when supplies run low and defrost the turkey when the car lets the house now that you're at the right exit (and though you were yakking on your cellphone, it will cut in to remind you to turn off)...
Now that also opens people up to virtual hijacking (okay, maybe not) and truly intrusive snooping (hmmm, the beer's disappearing fast - and the fries - turn up his insurance rates and lock his car till his BAC comes back to legal...) and moronic software crashes (imagine warm flat beer after your fridge goes BSOD). Oh well.
I was going somewhere with all this, but I no longer remember: sigh.
Oh, wait - people are stupid and willing to be led wherever Oprah tells them is a cool place to go. And wherever Bill thinks is a cool place to go today. Yeah, that's what I was going to say...
(Time to feed those squirrels in my brain.)
Re:Firewalls (Score:1)
Re:Simple... (Score:1)
You're assuming there will be non-online fridges to buy. I can see it now. Every geek from the 1990s sometime in the 2030s scavenging for ancient relics so noone will be able to get into their fridge and see their food. (Or reverse engineering their refrigerators... hmmm, I'd better look up that cousin of mine in the refrigeration maint biz.)
If what I said is nonsense,
I'm making a point with it.
If what I said makes perfect sense,
you obviously missed the point.
Now, who here's read 'Hyperion'? (Score:1)
Re:Embedded devices (Score:2)
Firewalls for every device... and the House too :) (Score:1)
Interesting problem though, although privacy would be my biggest concern, especially if you've got netcam's for home security, HDTV pay-per-view decoders, some banking functionaility where your home "house-computer" interfaces with the Bank's computer to reconcile bills and other items (a next generation quickbooks), your eating patterns via the "frig" talking to Safeway's Mainframe regarding the restocking of Vanilla Chocolate Chip Ice Cream and Tombstone Pizzas (tm) cuz your currently low, etc. etc... This could be a pretty tricky firewall configuration task. :)
One interesting problem might be if a person breaks into your "house-computer" and learns your habits over a series of weeks. S/He knows when you get up in the morning (the time the lights go on, the time the water heater comes on due to you taking a shower/bath, and the time the coffee machine starts brewing). S/he knows when you leave via the garage door opener, and the lights turning off. S/he will know when you get back from work using the signs mentioned above.
Virtually everything about you could be gleaned from the comfort of a chair anywhere in the world when someone "roots" your "house-computer".
Now that's scary (assuming a very paranoid view of the future)... Also, I would think there would be some type of AI "Centurion" (sic?) Network Daemon protecting your home network from trouble makers, by reconfiguring the firewall on-the-fly.
Advanced Features? (Score:1)
A typical family scene in 202X... (Score:2)
Flashy future-fade sequence
A husband and wife are sitting at their dinner table, eating a nice computer-cooked meal when this conversation pops up on their monitors...
Husband: "Honey, did you remote admin that lamp over there?"
Wife: "No, dear, I didn't... why?"
Husband: "Well, it looks like someone changed the lampshade... Oh no!"
Wife: "What is it? Did the computer undercook the food? .."
Husband: "No! Some stupid scriptkiddie defaced our lampshade! Now it's an ugly orange... but our carpets are blue! Argh. Curse those lamers. Computer?"
Main Computer: "Yes?"
Wife: "Nevermind him. He just doesn't have a sense of style."
Husband: "Style? What's STYLE got to do with it? Computer, change the lampshade back the way it was before."
Wife: "But, dear, you never back up ANYTHING. Remember, the Hou$eOS is just the default install? Things like backing-up aren't part of the package."
Husband: "Argh. Curse those H$ people. Curse them for owning a monopoly on all the houses of America."
End preview of future
Ok, it's a little skewed, but you get the idea.. I think it's a scary idea -- putting EVERYTHING on the net.. and quite possibly deadly one...
But to avoid things like this -- simply DON'T put your stuff on the net. :P If you don't want a scriptkiddie to deface your lamp, don't put it on the lamp. Don't let the companies FORCE you to put it on the net, either.
If, for some reason, you need to put your lamp on the net, make sure you do a CUSTOM installation.. don't let the factory just install the defaults. :P
Fight the man. Don't let H$ 0wn your h0use..
pr3s3nt d4y... pr3s3nt t1m3.... hahahahahahahahahaa
Network hard drives are cool! (Score:1)
Re:Embedded devices (Score:1)
Re:Simple... (Score:1)
... which is exactly what I intend to do.
I have no need for a networked toaster, thanks.
Re:Simple... (Score:1)
Quite reasonable... in theory.
But how does one say Brand-X Furnace can't be hacked (short of removing any network connection)? Making a statement like this would seem akin to stating "this application has no bugs, 'cos we've tested it". One could ensure that a device was resistant to certain forms of attack, but how could future forms be predicted?
I wonder if the clock in my microwave has sufficient processing power to be vulnerable to viruses?
Re:Embedded devices (Score:1)
Con: Before bed I still have to put the ingredients in the appliances. I have to remember to set my alarm. I have to turn the "delicious breakfast" option on. While I'm sleeping, my children, or my housemates, or my cats, or (maybe) the hacker next door reset everything so I'm late and have to make my own coffee in the morning. Let that happen twice and suddenly it's more trouble than it's worth.
Remember the big breadmaker craze a few years ago? Everybody got breadmakers and made fresh bread pop out in the morning, or as you go thome from work. Now everybody has a breadmaker they never use. The same thing will happen with networked appliances. No one will need the networked-ness: eventually, people will just disconnect it to save on bills.
information harvesting (Score:1)
you're forgetting the network infrastructure (Score:1)
presumeably this infrastructure (whether it be jini [sun.com]-like, or hive [mit.edu]-like) has to have the ability to manage all the devices on the local network. and once you have a way to adminstrate all the devices, think of an AutoRPM system or something similar to what RedHat now has for registered users -- let your infrastructure automatically update your applicances.
of course, this all assumes you buy upgradeable devices, whether it be in software or with FPGAs or something. i don't understand why anybody would by non-upgradeable devices if they had the choice anyway. in the worst case, if there is a bug in your "coffee machine", let your infrastructure take it off the network until a fix has become available.
networking everything is the way that we are moving. networking coffee machines, or microwaves is an interesting concept as toys, but the more interesting things happen when you network your whole house and have it have all these independant devices work together to form some emergent behavior (oh yeah - this had better not have a bug in it -- think of a house that is out of control and out to get you
sorry about rambling..........
How to Identify and Deter the Problem People (Score:2)
Most sys admins are vigilant in checking systems for signs of cracking attempts. However whenever you find evidence of an attack in your logfiles, isn't it frustrating that the people responsible are almost never caught or even identified?
What is the best form of deterrence against these attacks?
Since we cannot eradicate insecure systems globally, we could at least make the process of identifying these people more certain and reliable. One idea would be to have a central website where registered sys admins could report the IP addresses of attackers, at least in cases where this information is available from the logfiles. If enough people were to do this, it would be possible to trace through the chain of compromised hosts used by the attacker(s) to hide their origins right back to the source host(s) -- the original hosts used by the attackers.
There are several potential problems with this approach, not least finding websites willing to host the attack tracing service. Firstly, not all computing environments would favour the idea of admitting publicly that a system had been compromised. In such cases, the only publishable information might be the attackers' IP addresses and approximated dates of attacks. This would still be useful. Secondly, the logfiles might have been deleted by the attacker(s), although in practice it seems this rarely happens and would be impossible in cases where backup records are kept securely and non-electronically e.g. on paper.
Does anyone have any examples of successfully using a tracing approach to find attackers?
There was a post [slashdot.org] on Slashdot a while back listing IP addresses from an attack but there doesn't seem to be widespread use of IP address publication as a tool for deterring and identifying attackers. Should the big security sites like CERT expand their operations to provide a public tracing service?
Signed, 5fa1079617ec5584e8980fea39529b33
Re:Easy Fix (Score:1)
If you break into a system and cause damage: lethal injection.
That would make you think twice before doing something stupid if you ask me.
And, like most easy fixes, this one's utterly brain-damaged. I really hope you meant this as a joke, in which case I'm proud to have been trolled by you.
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"HORSE."
Re:Telnetting into my toaster!! (Score:1)
All pretty silly anywho.... (Score:1)
Don't get me wrong. I wired my house when I built it with 10B-T, More coax than I need and a sweet X-10 capable security system, but the utility of stuff like this escapes me.
Some things, like your TV, VCR, your security system, etc. etc. would probably benefit from having a TCP/IP stack and an OS built into them. I'm surprised most don't already...Same with auto computers, why not have a 10B-T port with a teency OS with a teency web server to report fault-codes, and other fun statistics....
If anything would be useful, it'd probably be some short of short-range wireless network that reports back to a central hub somewhere in your house to report power usage, if it's nearing failure, stuff like that.
Imagine your log files (made up the numbers...smirk)
$cat
Nov 10 06:30:00 toaster01 (startup): Starting with preset 02, cycle #0032
Nov 10 06:32:47 toaster01 (popup): Toast cycle #0032 ended at 130F after 167 sec.
Nov 10 06:32:49 toaster01 (status): Total power usage
Nov 10 06:32:51 toaster01 (status): WARNING, coil subsystem nearing end of life cycle, repair recommended (8 cycles remaining.)
embedded systems privately networked (Score:1)
Whilst recently it has been the "in thing" to connect stranger and stranger devices to the Internet, I personally believe that the majority of these types of systems will be networked privately. (sortof like having ATMs connecting to banks in their own private network and not connecting them over the Internet)
Having Coke machines connected with webcams and such to the net may be a novel idea, but lacks a certain practicality that may be found in, say, having them connected in a private network to a local HQ for monitoring if the machine is damaged, supplies are low, or if it isn't even turned on, etc! A nice closed network make this a little more feasible by cutting out the script-kiddie crowd who'ld otherwise be portscanning the vending machines...
As for refrigerators, home security and air-conditioning etc., connecting them into your home network might make it nice to program everything...
Donny
Put everything on the network! (Score:1)
Re:Improbable (Score:1)
Twenty years pass.
Some lady randomly starts getting these prank callers. Every hour, on the hour, her phone rings, hisses at her, then hangs up. It happens for weeks. She's frantic. Finally, they trace the calls to a nice suburban home whose owners completely deny everything. Then, they find that the old oil tank in their basement, which had been empty for years, had gotten a glitch in the system and was calling the old oil company, asking to be refilled.
Now substitute comething modern for phone number, and some other appliance for oil tank.
Re:Most things can easily be made updateable... (Score:1)
btw nice sig. always good to see Trent quoted somewhere
Re:Workarounds will rule. (Score:1)
Cracking Bill Gates' Computerised Mansion (Score:2)
If someone broke into Bill's house electronically, they might be able to do these nifty things:
Shouldn't be too hard to do. He's probably running NT as a server, and NT isn't exactly secure....
(Postscript: I had to type this in twice. The first time, Netscape and my Windows PC crashed so hard, I had to press Reset. Coincidence? Or did the words "Bill Gates" trigger a crash-and-burn subroutine in Windows?)
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World's Smallest ... Modern Times (Score:1)
World's Smallest Webserver [slashdot.org]
article that appeared here on slashdot a while back, about using a PIC16C84 or some similar 8 bit el-cheapo (around $2) microcontroller with a little bit of e2prom to run as a web server. Some crazy motherfucker put a simple flash filesystem, httpd, tcp/ip stack, and SLIP protocol into less than 4k words of code space (Yikes! That beats the hell out of 4k basic...) for use in wired household devices. It wouldn't cost more than $5-$10 in a production situation (most of that would be some sort of a serial connecter) to put a toaster on a network. I am not sure i could see a use for a toaster, but some other things (if i could have a machine make my morning tea about half an hour before i get up so it's cooled enough to drink, that'd be nice...) The thing i see as most potentially useful for this technology is home security sort of things, if you were to have a low-res web-cam sort of thing, but have a lot of them posted around your place, along with motion sensors, etc... and timer lights... Have all this accessable only to a non conencted network, and then have a terminal to get at it by your bed, and one in your workshop... WHen the terminal bell starts going ape, you look and see what's up, and a nice web front end from the master program could provide links to individual devices and sensors to give you more detailed info... It'd be pretty neat =:-)
Props to the guys who put the server on a PIC chip. I've programmed for PIC chips (i was part of a project working on a 7 extension (16 mailbox) KSU/VoiceMail system on one, and i know how tedious it is and how evil the optimization is...
cheers...
Re:Embedded devices (Score:2)
Silly rabbit! People will telecommute in the future, or just teleport around! ;)
This is happening already with such things as TV/DVD/Computers all coming together as one "information appliance". This could be the only real use for net enabled applicances and really, when we've already got most of the above with a puter with video cap card and DVD, *IS* the only net enabled appliance we've got right now.
The above idea does intrigue me though. Maybe I'll try doing some scripted video capture onto a new 27GB HD via my BTTV. I smell open source VCR replacement for those peeps with big HDs. ;)
As you get out of your car it begins to recharge itself form the docking station built into your garage and downlaods the audio notes you were dictating on the way home to your computer where they are converted to nice document form and ready on your desktop to do whatever you want with them.
Recharging: Not needed to be on the net.
Audio Notes: Another information appliance. Probably best handled by something like the upcoming cell phone/pager/palm pilot fusion dealies, or 'wearable computing' items which we've all been assured are coming Real Soon Now® from people like this collective of ubergeekiness [mit.edu].
I could see the transcription now:
Ahhhh... technology is a wonderful thing, n'est pas?You're going WAY beyond simple net connectivity with that sort of idea. You're looking at a large scale robotics issue, which would be far more expensive, and not much faster, and almost certainly less palatable than simply ordering out. You don't have to get out of your chair then either.
sound good? no? well to assloads of ppl out there it does and that means $$$ for all the companies that do it first. when it comes down to it, it's all about the benjamins.
Sure. It's just highly impractical, and terribly expensive in the case of automation, and unless you're an engineer or humanity suddenly is able to produce flawless technology, rife with annoying and potentially dangerous breakdowns and glitches. I also don't see a compelling reason to enable my lightbulbs to talk to me on the net, unless perhaps I want to do my own interpreting when the aliens from Close Encounters come buzzing by my home.
Don't get me wrong, I can understand and agree that for information appliances (phones, puters, entertainment devices etc) there's a definate upside to being net-enabled. I just don't believe that there's a compelling purpose to tracking your toilet usage via syslog, or any real need to ping your blender.
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rickf@transpect.SPAM-B-GONE.net (remove the SPAM-B-GONE bit)
Not so much to worry about.... (Score:1)
Do not attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity
Not there yet (Score:1)
If I could say, "House, make me a salami on rye, with lettuce, tomato, and mayonaise. No wait, no mayo, just mustard." If I could say that, and it would happen, that would be useful. Who cares if I can tell my coffee maker to make coffee when it gets a message from my car that I'm almost home? That's not useful. If the house would also get the ingredients and put them in the coffee maker, then it becomes more useful.
I know that a lot of the Unix philosophy is "small tools that can be linked together to perform larger tasks". That's still possible, but it needs to integrate. Each device provides one function, and the central house logic hooks them all together to perform the given task.
Of course, this requires the house logic to understand the task, even if only in a very limited way. Most of this is very simple, though, at least for the majority of tasks. It 'knows' (from it's database of knowlege) that "Make me a salami on rye" is a request for a sandwhich, from the pattern. on . When it hears a word or pattern it doesn't understand, it asks for a definition. "What type of object is 'rye'?" "Rye is a type of bread, specifically rye bread."
In this way it could build up its database as needed. A large knowlege database would come preprogrammed in, and the rest would be learned.
This would require, as described, voice recognition. It could be done with the current handwriting recognition and PADDs, though. A PADD, for those who don't know, is a lot like a PDA with a wireless network link to a computer.
After that, it requires a fairly fast computer (to run the relational database) and a fair amount of storage, to remember all the devices and their functions and to remember all of the 'knowlege'.
All in all, a very large problem. But one that is, I think, almost possible today (excepting the voice recognition). It's just waiting for someone to implement it.
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The Socal Contract will just start being enforced (Score:1)
As the technology becomes more mainstream, 'script kiddies' aren't going to be tolerated. Look at it this way: right now a screen window in the summer is pretty awful security. Think about it. Anybody with a pen-knife can cut his way in and steal your toaster! Why doesn't that happen? Because people who do that get locked away reasonably fast. So people aren't afraid to sleep at night in the summer with a screened window open (in many localities). A few jail cells full of hackers will solve the problem. Kids (and overgrown kids in adult form) just need their hands slapped a little, and things pretty much correct themselves.
I've never understood why people think that technology renders morality obsolete. It doesn't.
Whoops! Typo in the link... (Score:1)
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rickf@transpect.SPAM-B-GONE.net (remove the SPAM-B-GONE bit)
The answer is... (Score:1)
Well thought-out, non-proprietary standards are a good thing. When I'm sober I'll tell you why I think something like JINI is the key (hint: do you really want (say) toshiba deciding to implement a microwave oven/ip interface based on (say) finger?).
Re:Embedded devices (Score:2)
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rickf@transpect.SPAM-B-GONE.net (remove the SPAM-B-GONE bit)
Re:Easy Fix (Score:1)
But laws will be enforced (they already exist), and hackers will find themselves in deep trouble.
People have a way of figuring out what is right and wrong. The ones who don't, or won't... they had their chance. There will always be drudgery jobs that need to be filled. Obviously we don't need rocks broken up, but there's always road construction work, etc.
But here's the important part (Score:1)
But seriously, folks, can you imagine how much more "interesting" things are going to be for the folks at Underwriters Laboratories.
Increasing stability (Score:1)
Protocols capable of managing large numbers of simple hosts are being deployed with increasing regularity around the 'net as administrators opt for simple slave/master distributed environments, and with that popularity comes increasing scrutiny by hoards of paranoid sysadmins and curious hackers.
I believe that the sheer danger that the net represents to the hosts on it has taught us lessons about computer stability and security we would never otherwise have learned, and on the condition (And its a biggy) that these lessons are properly attended to apon the creation of the embedded systems, and indeed all future systems, we will rapidly reach a point where particular, listed systems and configurations can be trusted just as much as the rather pathetic level of SSL encryption we currently use to hide our credit card details.
The increasing capability of users to handle the responsibilities of logins and passwords, and the burgeoning field of proactive defense (see Stackguard etc) give the potential for the role of script kiddies and crackers to be relegated to finding what they do mostly now, misconfigured, rather than fundementally broken, systems.
Of course, thats in a perfect world. In this world, the leading operating systems vendor doesn't know the meaning of the word "Secure" and hacking your friends video game console is about to become the new craze of the 21st century.
Re:But here's the important part (Score:1)
Re:A typical family scene in 202X... (Score:2)
And vote in a political representative not afraid to spend a few tax dollars on jail cells for criminals who engage in trespass.
Why do people feel the need to make it more complicated than that?
Re:Cracking Bill Gates' Computerised Mansion (Score:1)
Hack into the toaster, and make it play random sounds using the entertainment system. "Hi! I'm Talkie, your talking toaster." "Would anybody like some toast?" "How about a cheese and ham bramble?" "Ahh, so you're a waffle man!"
Or even put a floating disembodied head on his TV. "'ere, what's all this then?" "*Thump* *Thump* *Thump* Thats three minutes then."
Scenes from Hardware wars come to mind as well..
Oh what have we done! What have we done?
Just as long as things don't start complaining about the pain in all the diodes down their left side, I think I'll be safe.
Corporate abuse (Score:1)
I'm not worried about some script kiddie breaking into my internet appliance. I'm more worried about the corporations collecting info about me.
Then again, with the big bucks that CmdrTaco got there is gonna be a house in Michigan with an internet toliet. Crackers will probe a way to potentially wipe out a dangling problem.
Hey what's wrong with grandpa's NetPacemaker???? (Score:2)
This is such a non-issue its almost funny that people worry about it. You've been reading too much William Gibson.
We can call it the "Maximum Overdrive Meme." or MOM.
"Looks like some hacker flushed the toilet when I was taking a shower again."
Nobody Knows What Will Happen--and That's GOOD (Score:1)
Hasn't anybody here studied the history of technology? Nobody--none of us--have the slightest clue what the next twenty, or ten, years of technology will bring. Will every toaster and waffle iron have its own IPv6 address? Will every clueless end user have to remember the gateway IP address, and how to connect a new appliance to the household DHCP server?
Well, let's back up a hundred years. When Alexander Graham Bell invented the telephone he did not have the faintest notion of "phone tag", let alone "phone sex." The telephone instrument was placed in the front room of any house wealthy enough to own one. When exchange interconnection happened (so you could call from one exchange to another) newspapers worried that women wouldn't be able to deal with the complexity of remembering the exchange name and the phone number--chaos would reign. When long distance service began people used to dress in their best clothes before placing a long distance phone call.
The great-grandchildren of these people have no trouble with cell phones, digital cell phones, pagers, and fax machines. Many of them are capable of direct-dialing international calls (particularly if there is phone sex involved.) Several of them are capable of dealing with modems.
The same is true of automobiles, airplanes, trucks, and electricity.
Where we'd headed, IMHO, is a world with (from our perspective) infinite MIPS and infinite bandwidth. Where software is much more a product of interaction among agents, rather than the result of a single monolithic program. Those agents will give all the devices we use a dramatically different level of sophistication than we can fathom--and it will be relatively easy for those agents to establish trust relationships with other agents.
In less than 100 years we have gone from an era of hand-cranked phones to a time when people put you on hold because their other cell phone line needs to connect to the in-car fax machine. In the next 10 years we'll see business and home appliances go from X.10 to a world we simply can't imagine today.
Will there be bumps on the road? Yup. Will some script kiddies scare the daylights out of Gary North, Mike Hyatt, Ed Yourdon, and the rest of the Year 2000 Chicken Littles? Undoubtedly--they'll be wringing their hands in public about that by January (they've already started--all the Y2K remediation has just given foreign agents the ability to plant time bombs in our computer code!) Maybe you or I will make a fortune solving the problem.
But when we get there, we'll shake our heads in wonder at how much 2000 will seem to be just like the Stone Age. We'll tell our kids (or in my case, my grandchildren) about life today--and they won't believe a word we say.
A good note.. (Score:1)
They can be monitored for dangerous or wasteful usage (plugged in irons, turned on stoves, lights...). If the iron hasn't been moved for more than 5 minutes, shut it off. If the stove has been on for more than 2 minutes and the smoke detector is going off, shut off the stove. I say 2 since some foods generate smoke by. I left the water running overnite onetime. Leaving the water running for more than 30 minutes is a good reason to shut it off...
just some input...
---
Re:Embedded devices (Score:1)
wavy lines
Date : circa 2005
It's 7:00am your alarm goes off. It sends a signal out to your toaster and coffee maker. They both start preparing your breakfast. A few min later when you get to the kitchen your breakfast is all ready.
You finish eating breakfast and reading the morning newspaper. (on the screen or padd in your dining room) And leave for work. The lock on your door detects you leaving and locks the front door as well. It also sends a pulse to the remote-starter on your car. When you get to your car the engine is running and your windows are defrosted. The map in your car already has contacted the trafic report site of your choice and plotted a course around the 42 car pile-up on your usuale route.
When your car's GPS detects that you're almost at work it sends a signal to boot up your workstation and start your other coffee maker.
You work for eight hours.
It's time to go home. On your screen is the button to remote start your car. You don't click on it. Your car is in the lot and you're not crazy. You walk out to the lot and unlock your car by hand. You drive home. They've cleared up the wreck so you can use your usual route. When you near your driveway your car's GPS sends a signal to your house which turns on the external lights. When you enter your driveway the locks on your house are automaticaly unlocked for you.
wavy lines
Date : Present
This would probably be a major hassle to set up since the appliences all come from diferent manufacturers. And it'll be a pain when it breaks. But I can definetly see why I'd want my appliences on the net. And why script-kiddys better not be able to mess with it.
Why should I network my fridge? (Score:2)
I want someone to please explain how networking every appliance in your house is going to improve life in a cost per effort scale. I wake up in the morning and spend 3 minutes preparing coffee before I start getting ready for work. Get beans out of fridge, grind beans, pour into filter, fill carafe with water, empty carafe into percolator, turn on percolator. Now, that's three minutes.
You could make the argument that a person salaried at $50k would save $1.20 per day by not making coffee manually, but guess what? Your employer doesn't pay you to NOT BE AT WORK! And I'm pretty sure that 90% of everyone in the world would use that extra 3 minutes of their time to hit the snooze button an additional 1/3 times. I'm in favor of progress, but I must object to the technologically absurd, if only from a pure fiscal standpoint. Networking your kitchen appliances will not make you happier, more efficient, or more productive. It will only ensure that you have less capital in your bank account.
---------------------------------------
When it all comes down (Score:2)
So the question comes back: How long until we really see these devices in use? A long time by my count.
My VCR has an RS-232 port, and I do use it to set up a recording schedule. How many of the "truly geeky" have done this? RS ports on VCR's are also about 3 years old. (Maybe older, I said 3 to be conservative.) Is my VCR hackable? Yes, but what true damage could be done? ($50 in fees for my tapes being "not rewound"! Darn you hax0rs!!!)
Why hasn't anyone hacked my VCR and forced me to record "Emmanuelle in Space" over my copy of "Titanic"? (Actually, why haven't they darn it! My IP is...) Because noone is looking for it. Why doesn't someone out there write Macro Viruses for Ami-Pro?? Because they would have too little of an effect. Linux is still short on viruses, but they're coming...
So, until a hax0r sees the likelyhood of being able to hack your toaster, and figures it's likely that you have an IP enabled toaster, he/she will probably spend most of his/her time writing Office Macros that make your paperclip sing "I'm the only one".
I firmly believe that we will se a proliferation of TIVO and similar devices long before we see the CompuToaster (TM).
So, back to our original premise, IP enabled devices today. Plan on at least 3-5 years before there is enough market saturation to matter, and another 2 years for acceptance.
Where will the computer industry be in 5-7 years? What steps will be taken by M$, Linux, etc. in that time frame? Ask anybody that was using Linux 7 years ago if Linux has "changed".
It is becoming inevitable that within the next 3-5 years a competent firewall will be a part of every major operating system simply as a side effect of cable modems and the like. Believe me, the OS that does not have this feature will soon add it when the kids down the street decide it's best to hack your computer for practice. I recall that not too long ago there was no Virus protection on Windows. Along came MSAV, and you basically can't buy a computer without AV software installed nowadays. The market responds to new challenges.
Also, TCP/IP would be too much of a networking protocol to use for a toaster. There will probably be an updated version of NetBios, NetBeui, or SMB that will be used.
Debating a technology that is so far off into the future without considering the impact of a similar timeframe of advances in other fields is fruitless. As an earlier poster commented, "...will have safety precautions built in, like a temp control for the stove..." The hardware will not debut until the software is ready, and so on. In a country where you can sue someone for serving you coffee that is "too-hot", I must assume that the companies involved will make sure that they are protected from liability. Leaving a security hole in a program that in turn causes your Braun Shaver to shave the sofa and set it on fire would probably stand up in court as negligence.
********Paranoia Starts Here***********
Here's the real kicker. GE enters into an agreement with some monolithic OS maker and makes the CompuToaster (TM) a proprietary "OS 2000" only product. Sure, write your own interface, but we ain't responsable when you have a burnt loaf of wonderbread... Better yet, the makers of "OS 2000" decide that a "partnership" is in order, so that GE develops the toaster and firmware, and OSsoft develops the interface. It takes a level of responsability from both parties, as they can blame software/hardware (whichever side they didn't design) for any and all problems that occur. Sure, you could still sue the companies, but which one?? This would be great for both sides of the bargain, and as usual screw the guy in the middle. Just something to think about.
Will Bill control the destiny of your toaster??
~Jason Maggard
"If all you have is a hammer, try 'ln -s
Re:Firewalls (Score:2)
The funny thing is, even though its only for windows, it detections a lot of intrusions for Linux, like the infamous rpc.mountd [networkice.com] or numerous POP and IMAP exploits that only Linux is susceptible too (of course, it's really meant for the TONS of windows exploits).
Imagine having to have an intrusion detection system to thwart:
Re:Cracking Bill Gates' Computerised Mansion (Score:1)
Screw the floating disembodied head! Make it a floating talking paperclip! and then at the WORST times (when he's *with* his wife?) make it pop up and say "Hey! Do you need help with that?"
Centralized Idea. (Score:1)
Now, I understand the worry then would be that if someone got root on your machine, they could really mess stuff up. But why have all the appliances require their own passwords so that if you wanted to start your oven over the internet, you would need a special password. If you need to start your oven from the other end of the house, you wouldn't need such a password.
Sure, it may be more of a hassel to type in a password every time you want to start your oven or record a show, but that's a lot less of a hassle then what you currently have to do. Plus, if you didn't care about security, then you could turn it off. I guess my question is: if you have secure passwords for all of your appliances and you never send those unencrypted (ssh!), then what's the big problem?
get real (Score:1)
Re:Why should I network my fridge? (Score:2)
No, silly.. it's because Enlightenment needs to know you have beer in the fridge when it compiles. I know Geoff (Mandrake) pretty much always had beer in his fridge when he lived in Atlanta, but I have had to go out and buy it once or twice when I upgraded E.
Seriously, people will not bother with things like fridges.. unless they had some sort of bar-code scanning inventory device, but even then it wouldn't need to control the temp.. But some people will use other network controlled things. How many of you use cron/at for your allarm clock now? Hell, I even use atjobs insteal of setting the timer for the stove. It's kinda nice to have a unix like control of more of your world.
Security issues will probable have been worked out by the time personal things work there way down to the general public.. especially since the more dnagerous devices, like stoves, will be some of the least useful things to have on the network.
The only real problem I would expect to see is people hacking into networked phones or home security systems and spying on people.. it would be VERY useful to have a computerized phone or home security system which queued up say 30min. of footage and sent it to the cops if something happened (or was in gernal programable).
Prediction: We will see some hacking of systems at busnesses (ex: why not make elivators programmable so that the exec can cal them from his office and not need to wait) and we will probable see some privacy invasion (hell there is porable someone reading this who has evesdroped on another door room using someones soundcard).
Jeff
gotta problem (Score:1)
Re:Possible scenario (Score:1)
Better use PNG... (Score:1)
Re:Firewalls (Score:1)
My kitchen just crashed. (Score:3)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
TCI, The nation's largest cable television company, is in talks to launch a
unique pilot project in conjunction with Pacific Gas & Electric Co. &
Microsoft Corporation to design a "smart home". The home automation industry
is expected to triple in size, from $1.7 billion this year to more than
$5.1 billion by the year 2000.
NOVENBER 28, 1995 - Moved in at last. Finally, we live in the smartest house
in the neighborhood. Everything's networked. The cable TV is connected to our
phone, whitch is connected to my PC, whitch is connected to the power lines,
all the appliances and security system. Everything runs off a universal
remote with the freindliest interface I've ever used. Programming is a snap.
I'm like totally wired.
NOVEMBER 30 - Hot stuff! Programmed my VCR from the office, turned up the
thermostat and switched on the lights with the car phone, remotely tweaked
the oven a few degrees for my pizza. Everythings nice and cozy when I arrived.
Maybe I should have the universal remote surgically attached.
DECEMBER 3 - Yesterday, the kitchen crashed. Freak event. As I opened the
refridgerator door, the light blew. Immediately, everything else electrical
shut down - lights, microwave, coffee maker - everything! Carefully,
I unplugged and plaugged all the appliances back in. Nothing called the cable
company (but not from the kitchen phone). The utility insists the problem was
in the software. So the software company runs some remote telediagnostics via
my house processor. Their expert system claims it has to be the utility's
fault. I dont care. I just want my kitchen back. More remote diagnostics.
Turns out the problem was "unanticipated failure mode". The network had never
seen a refridgerator bulb failure while the door was open.
So the fuzzy logic interpreted the burnout as a power surge and shut down the
entire kitchen. But because sensor memory confirmed that there hadn't actually
been a power surge, the kitchen's logic sequence was confused so it couldn't
do a standard restart. The utility guy swears this had never happened.
Rebooting the kitchen took over an hour.
DECEMBER 7 - The police are not happy. Our house keeps calling them for help.
We discover that whenever we play the TV or stereo above 25 desibels, it
creates patterns of micro-vibrations that get amplified when they hit the
window. When these vibrations mix with with a gust of wind, the security
sensors are activated and the police computer concludes that someone is trying
to break in. Go figure... Another glitch: whenever the basement is in
self-diagnostic mode, the universal remote won't let me change the channels
on my TV. That means I actually have to get up off the couch and change the
TV channels by hand. The software and the utility people say this flaw will be
fixed in the upgrade - Smarthouse 2.1 but it's not ready yet.
DECEMBER 12 - This is a nightmare! Theres a virus in the house. My PC caught
it while browsing the public access network. I come home and the living room
is a sauna, the bedroom windows are covered with ice, and the reffridgerator
has defrosted. The washing machine has flooded the basement, the garage door
is cycling up and down, and the TV is stuck on the Home Shopping Channel.
Throughout the house, lights flicker like strobescopes until they explode
from the strain. Broken glass is everywhere. Of course the security sensors
detect nothing. I look at the message slowly throbbing on my PC screen:
"Welcome to Homewrecker!!! Now the fun begins. Be at ever so humble, Theres
no virus like Homewrecker..." I get out of the house, FAST!
DECEMBER 18 - They think Iv'e digtally disinfected the house but the place is
in shambles. Pipes have bursts and we're not completely sure we've got that
part of the virus that attacks toilets. Nevertheless, The Exorcists - as
the anti-virus SWAT members like to call themselves - are confident the
worst is over. "Homewrecker is pretty bad," one tells me, "but consider
yourself lucky you didn't get Poltergiest. That one is really evil".
DECEMBER 19 - apparently, our house isn't insured for viruses, "Fires and
mud slides yes," says the claims adjuster, "Viruses, no". My agreement with
the Smarthouse poeple explicitly states that all claims warranties are null,
and void if any appliances or computer in my house networks in any way, shape,
or form with a non-certified on-line services. Everybody's very sorry but they
can't be axpected to anticipate every virus that may be created. We call our
lawyer. He laughs. He's excited.
DECEMBER 21 - I get a call from a Smarthouse sales rep. As a special holiday
offer, we get the free oppertunity to become a beta site for the company's
new Smarthouse 2.1 upgrade. He say's I'll be able to meet the programmers
personally. "SURE!!!" I tell him.....
---aurthor unknown
I don't really know about embedded... but just a (Score:1)
I wouldn't mind wearing a headgear deal (given it wasn't toooo big... ya know? ) if it was capable of a few things.
Integrated with my whole house through voice command.
I would love to turn on the stereo and switch cd's from anywhere in the house.
Turn off the front porch light when I'm in the backyard with the
8" Telescope.
Talk to my circle of friends without having to go through the whole
phone/busy-signal/voic-mail junk.... (I have a few ideas on that one.)
See who's at the front door.... From work.
Re-route my HOUSE line through the head-gear.. (transparently)
Check my e-mail. Open doors. Change lights.
Set oven temp (no... I don't want auto cooked crap)
And of course cramming VR into it so I can handle e-mail, web-browsing,
site building, report genration, etc. etc. etc...
that would make it infinitely better.
Just my take is all.
Re:Why should I network my fridge? (Score:1)
If there was a mechanical fault, wouldn't the temperature rise?
Re:Embedded devices (Score:1)
pipe dreams (Score:2)
I think I've seen this discussed here before. Lets face it, toasters are never going to have IP's. There is no point. Perhaps being able to control your lighting, and a few other things remotely would be nice. Stuff like this is available already (X10 type stuff) if you're willing to pay the price, albeit not with IP's. A lot of audio magazines cover this type of stuff, Home Theatre comes to mind.
Lets keep it real for a moment. Is it just me, or does the whole "give your toaster and everything else an IP" sound like something some dumb ass executive at GE would say? How soon will this be a real problem or a real market? Maybe 5 or 10 years down the road for the 1% of the population that can afford it? Frankly there isn't much in my house that I'd want to be able to control remotely other than my computer/data.
Any consumer with half a fuctioning brain will do a cost/benefit analysis and see that networking your entire house pretty much fails. High cost, and large security risks for minimal gains. How lazy do you really want to be? "Hey honey, I just warmed up the oven while sitting on the couch!" Yawn. Most of this stuff I'll leave for the rich who do it "because they can." Let Bill Gates get his house "owned" if he's actually dumb enough to connect it to the internet.
The person who asked the question on this topic also pointed out that most of these devices are not upgradeable. Indeed, any embedded system you buy most likely isn't How many appliance manufacturers would you trust on this point, especially since the average consumer has no idea what we're talking about here anyway? "Sir, this security is unbreakable. The food in your refridgerator will be safe." Where have I heard something like this before? Ah yes. Witness the recent events in DVD land. Even the suits were convinced that it would never be cracked. Yikes.
A lot of this stuff has important applications, for example in building control, for security systems, air conditioning, or whatever. But this already exists in a LAN environment. Changing this type of system to some sort of PC and TCP/IP environment is not a huge step (in the local or MAYBE WAN environment). As far as connecting all this to the internet only sets you up for disaster. So what if you can control all 10 of your building from one location...just pay a few extra people to work at all of the building and save the security risk.
So I'm not worried about this in general because:
The cost is too high.
Doesn't do much for you (mostly more couch potato stuff, at least in the home environment).
Only a small percentage of the population will be able to afford it.
Once these type of systems are cracked, the average consumer will reject them.
MIT's Random Hall (Score:1)
Try to turn out the lights while someone's in the bathroom (without being to Random Hall. That would be cheating, Boris.) You won't suceed. (Taking down the server != Turning out lights in bathroom, so please don't. My friends use those computers.) Of course, the systems were designed by competant people so that there was no chance for any significant damage to be done. I suppose that can't be said for everything.
Re:Simple... (Score:1)
Most answering machines have a feature where you can call home, enter a code, and hear/erase your messages. In many cases these things are easy to hack. For one thing it's usually only a three-digit code, and also they aren't very smart about the way they reject codes.
I don't think security concernes ever affected answering machine sales. Most people don't know or care about such things.
Re:Most things can easily be made updateable... (Score:1)
(As posted from a vaio while walking home).
Connectivity Is Useful! But problem is minimal. (Score:1)
I personally would love well designed intelligent appliances, and I'm not a technogadget collector. I keep my notes on folded up sheets of paper, not the latest Color Palm VII/CX Plus Pro. But when was the last time your refrigerator froze your tomatos? The ice-cream was too hard to eat? You were out of coffee in the morning? The microwave broke and you weren't sure how to fix it? Intelligent appliances could take care of all of these things easily. Suppose I'm at work and I read on CNN's website that they have a special that afternoon that I want to record. Why can't I program my VCR from my computer over the internet? Why doesn't my alarm clock set itself when I turn it on? I'm not willing to pay much extra for all these little conveniences, but I am willing to pay something, and I'd wager that many others would too.
I also think that at some point power cables will have five prongs instead of two: the current three (to provide power) and two extra to provide a USB-style link. With open protocols for inter-device communications, even advanced appliances could require no setting up. You just plug them into the wall, they find the right place to get all the information needed to configure themselves, and off you go.
I am not particularly worried about people cracking my toaster oven, though. There are two reasons. First, my toaster oven will not have a worthwhile amount of processing power nor will it do anything that anyone cares about. (Maybe if some uberhacker develops a grudge against me I'll find my toast burnt one morning, but that's hardly a world-shattering threat.) Second, those appliances that can be dangerous should have isolated kill-switches that shut the thing down if it engages in dangerous behavior. If you can afford an entire embedded processing system in your networked toaster oven, you can avoid an extra sensor and circuit that kills the power before the cracker lights your toast on fire. If the system is both boring and harmless, there is little danger of intentional damage. Viruses may accidentally become a problem, in which case....
Obviously, there should be manual controls to disconnect both net access and maybe even kill switches, in the unlikely event that you *need* to light your toast on fire for some reason.
Besides, without every electric toothbrush connected to the net, what are we going to do with all the IPv6 addresses?
Technocracy (Score:2)
No, what I was most interested in was the comment appended to the story, which went like this:
"This has worried me for a while. More often than not, the drive to commercialize a new technology always comes before we've accurately predicted how it will effect us..."
Think about this line for a moment. Ignore its immediate silliness (OF COURSE people want to commercialize things before their effects are known... how else do we get to know their effects?!).
Imagine a world in which no technologies were permitted to enter the market unless someone (who? Slashdot? A Federal Bureau of Technology Approval? Bill Gates? Some committee with reps from all of the above?) approved it, presumably judging what its effects would be.
This is the technocratic fantasy, wherein nothing new is permitted unless it fits a particular "expert" vision. But who, really, CAN predict these things? Who could have predicted the creation and rise of Linux? Who could have predicted the Slashdot effect? Maybe some people did. But if those people had had to persuade everyone else, or at least a majority, that those effects were (a) likely to occur and (b) had benefits outweighing their costs, neither would have happened at all.
That is why the mentality embodied in that sort of offhand comment -- fear about unleashing some sort of technological monster upon an unwary public -- scares me, because it demonstrates an amazing level of arrogance about our own knowledge and predictive capabilities. If the capacity exists for a wired fridge, someone will try to market it, and it will succeed or it will fail. And it may produce effects and innovations that even we vaunted Slashdot readers could not have predicted. So when we express our healthy skepticism about a particular technology or product, let's try not to let it spill over into technocratic hubris, eh?
(note for readers: there is a rather good book on this subject entitled The Future And Its Enemies, by Virginia Postrel. Check it out if you are interested in a recent nontechnical defense of technology.)
-BBB
Re:Most things can easily be made updateable... (Score:1)
Once the novelty runs out though, I've noticed increases in productivity beyond that of just portable computing. I'll note that I'm refering to wireless ethernet with a laptop, and so the flexibility is probably much more - running linux, I can code anywhere. Being at CMU, coding anywhere basically requires AFS access as well, and so a network connection...
But its just a tool, and it takes a while to realize that. While I will admit to sitting in chem lab reading slashdot, I also spend idle moments in lab looking up MSDS forms or coordinating with time-out-of-sync partner.
The Trigger Effect (Score:1)
-------------------------------------------
Re:Why should I network my fridge? (Score:1)
Would you want to network your fridge, perhaps
Ever see that commercial where the guy is in the grocery store shoving items in his pockets and then exits through an arch in the front of the store? The punchline is that the security guard yells "Excuse me sir
Well, I mention it because if someone develops a cheap way for a "smart fridge" to know what items are in it, something simmilar to the arch in the commercial, then when arranging your grocery delivery online from work (which I sometimes do), you can answer burning questions like "Am I out of milk?" And if your grocery delivery supported your fridge, you could let the grocer figure out if you need milk.
Silly, perhaps. But if I happened to be in the market for a new fridge anyway, I'd pay some extra $$$ (probably not more than $100 extra) for that kind of thing. It would take a lot of spoiled milk to make it pay for itself, but people who cook a lot would get a lot of convienece for the buck.
Another one I can think of is the VCR. If you've ever really wanted to tape some show and realize after you've left that you forgot to set the VCR, then you might appreciate some sort of VCR network interface.
Again, this is a silly luxury, and wouldn't sell well unless it could be delivered pretty cheaply.
In general, people won't have every appliance networked, but the appliance manufacturers who can develop really useful and cool network options will make some money off of it. It's just like web pages, there are thousands of comanies with useless web sites
Re: Marketing network appliances (Score:1)
Oil for all the lamps in China. How many families don't have telephone, cable, internet or some other monthly service? It's getting to be a frightening world.
Forward Thinking (Score:1)
Correct me if I'm wrong (Score:1)
That bugeyed paperclip (Score:2)
"You mean it wasn't really IIS, but that 'fringe operating system?'"
My toaster works just fine as it is. (Score:1)
And it was only $10 at Macys.
Prediction my ass! (Score:1)
Ev(ent) -> Eff(ects).
Sure, interesting thought experiments can give you some answers, but you are really deluding yourself, as all you get is:
Ps(eudo)Ev(ent) -> Ps(eudo)Eff(ects).
I bet the people at sun didn't realise the fact that Java would miserably flop for a bit, and then make a comeback, nor the maker of the transistor the evolution of computers. The effects of embedded computers is not necessarily an einstein coffee maker, but a chip that produces little heat for lots of processing power. There's also the miniturisation of networking components (such as smart mobiles (mobile phones).
Chief Prosecutor
Advocacy Department
Re:legal implications (Score:1)
//rdj
It's a bloody metaphor! (Score:1)
No-one is seriously advocating connectiong actual toasters to the home network (I hope!) The idea is that network connections will become so ubiquitous that even reasonably simple appliances will eventually be network-enabled.
The ridiculous extreme to this is of course, the humble toaster - a device so incredibly simple that there can be no imaginable benefit to having it networked... but it is anyway.
Why toasters? (Score:1)
OK so the toaster was a joke - I got it now hehe
But actually the same thing goes for a VCR. I would love to be able to remote program my VCR, since I always find out about films a want to tape too late. Now what good would a net-enabled VCR do me? "Sure dude I'll start recording channel 2 at 21:00" Wait, do I have a tape in? What's on it allready? Is there room for another film?
So before I replace the casette with a HD an IP adress is of no use to me. Then what do I have? A device with a cpu a network connection a hard disk a dvd and a display... Wait a minute havent I seen someting similar somewhere...
Re:Simple... (Score:1)
Actually, there was a post awhile back (on Bugtraq, if I recall correctly), showing that a couple popular models of answering machines had very, very small code-spaces.
IIRC, the particular models I have in mind had code-spaces of 8 and 16 codes for the 2 and 3 digit models, respectively.
I know on one of mine, it just looked at the 'column' tone pattern. So, '737' is equivalent to '191', etc... *shudder Imagine what sorts of sensitive items could be on there...
--Joe--
Re:legal implications (Score:1)
OTOH, the few times I've collected on my insurance in instances when it was someone else's fault (such as when I was hit while driving), I know the insurance company landed on that other person like a ton of bricks...
Funnily enough.. (Score:2)
http://www.furryspace.com/istapler.jpg [furryspace.com]
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Yet another apple blunder . . . (Score:2)
It's not the net that's useful for connectivity, but the home. Let the computer cycle the lights when you're away. Turn on the coffee pot. Change the channel on the stereo. Turn off the light downstairs that you forgot about.
And why is this apple's screwup? Turn the clock back 11 years. Apple produces the Mac IIfx. Recall that every mac since day one was network capable. In the IIfx, the serial (network) ports were run by a special chip with a 6502, RAM, and ROM. Gee, one little chip, that apple could sell for about $20 to embed in everything . . . that could communicate around the house over the unused pair of wires in the phone lines (yes, appletalk ran on common phone wire). So how many did apple sell outside of the IIfx? [hint: it's the same number as North American coal exports in 1491 . .
Maximum Overdrive Meme has you! (Score:2)
Controling your lamps through your pc has been available for YEARS, yet you never see it. How often do you change the temp in your refig? Once a year? Why waste tech and $$$ to wire it? Why put a chip and a couple servos to flush your toilet for you.
Its an urban legend that such technologies exist or are being taken seriously. The bill gates house will never catch on. Why? Because housing will always be traditional. One, its expensive to build a home from scratch and most people buy/rent used. And new home buyers don't want to chance some untested technology for obvious reasons. "Hey for 3 grand we can make the oven take commands form Hawaii!"
Especially when radio shack sells light timers for next to nothing.
Practicaly, its of almost no use to wire your home to anything other than a small upgradable control box, like electonic thermostats today. Why would you want make it net accessible, on the off chance that your 2 weeks vacation every year comes at a time you can't find someone to feed the dog? Or you really need someone from Hawaii cook you a roast.