Z.E.N. Clone for Linux? 19
mwknight asks: "The school district where I work has servers that were patched together with different versions of Novell and NT over the past few years. Management is ready to start over and re-design our network from scratch using Novell 5 servers and Win95/98 clients. I would rather see us go with Linux for the servers, but my biggest opposition is Novell's Z.E.N. Works. Is there a Linux program that behaves similar to ZEN? Mainly something that can remote update software to Win95 boxes? "
Re:PC-Rdist (Score:1)
I have used ZEN extensively (for many clients on varied sites), and not seen any flakyness in the core functionality, that is, the Application Launcher.
Some of the other components have been problematic at times (don't get me started on the problems with the remote control software) But never Appication launching. Policy distribution, and workstation management bits have been good too.
Some thoughts (Score:1)
You could use one of the other machine imaging packages which has App distribution on top. Imagecast (which I can't recommend, BTW) and RapidDeploy spring to mind. These mostly require windows server boxes to do their work though.
You could use Microsoft's own sysdiff utility for distributing the apps contents to the workstation, and just use a profile provided common desktop to create the icons.
Ultimately, I don't think anything comes near ZEN for all round ease of use and flexabilty to mass administer 95 and NTWS. It is Novell's crown jewels at the moment, and really is the thing that keeps sites using it from going to other systems. This is not all bad, as it at least stops managers from taking the organisation to NT! In Linux's quest to become a complete OS we need a desktop mass-administrator - for Linux desktops as well as Windows. How about an RPM installer on Windows. repackage Windows apps in RPMs, then have a launcher to check for the packages installation before starting the app.....
Re:PC-Rdist (Score:2)
http://www.pyzzo.com/pcrdist [pyzzo.com]
Re:PC-Rdist (Score:2)
So that's my experience with flaky ZEN. If you don't have any problems, then it's probably as sweet a package manager as the writing on the box makes it out to be. :)
PC-Rdist (Score:3)
PC-Rdist can manage the filesystems of 95/98/NT, as well as the registries. The way it works, you store an image on the server, that contains the filesystem and registry exactly how you want it, and then you have the workstations synchronize to that image. Since it's just file-sharing based, linux+smb will do the job.
Pyzzo software [pyzzo.com] makes PC-Rdist.
Re:Only useful if configured correctly. (Score:1)
But yes, if an idiot creates the initial install images, then every computer in your org will be screwed up in the same way (this can actually help troubleshooting, every system breaks the same, and can be fixed the same). Conversely if the initial image is good than every computer will be that much more stable. It also helps when you want to distribute software through a logon script, you can be sure that every computer has the same software installed in the same places.
These tools are much better than trying to create custom automated install scripts and response files. It is faster and requires less babysitting.
Re:What about different hardware configurations? (Score:1)
It may be dirty, but it'd work. (Score:2)
You could make this program as simple or as sophisticated as you please. I would look into programs that keep track of registry changes and installed files. Then you could install the software on a test machine, and prepare something analagous to a
Of course, you'd have to make damn sure that the maching serving this special directory isn't compromised, but you should be doing that anyway.
This was all kind of a spur of the moment type idea, but it seems workable. comments?
Re:It may be dirty, but it'd work. (Score:1)
Your suggestion will work, but unfortunately it's just too much work to be practical in most situations.
The whole reason folks buy PC-RDIST/Ghost/ZEN/whatever is to save the incredible nuisance of doing these tasks by hand.
I've spent well over 100 hours since the release of Win95 tuning my "automatic Win95 install" collection of batch files, INF files, etc. (Most of the pain is due to the incredibly poor documentation.)
My kludges have saved literally weeks of time in the long run, but they are still not as functional as Ghost for building new machines, and not nearly as good as PC-RDIST or ZEN for rolling out updates or changes.
Take a hard look at one of these packages, and you'll never want to go back to rolling your own. In terms of manageability, Win95 was a serious step back from Win3.11. I've come to the conclusion that it really takes a dedicated team of programmers to cook up a tool that's good enough to be practical for managing the festering abombination that is Win95.
If you're too poor, (like a lot of my previous employers) then you make do, all the while cursing and swearing because there are tools to eliminate most of the drudgery, and make the whole thing more reliable.
What about different hardware configurations? (Score:1)
The average medium to large sized business probably has a great variety of hardware configurations. Who wants to have store a 1-3Gb Image file for each different set of computer hardware configurations? The other thing is, most of these packages are more of a one-time, deal. Image them once and they run forever? Not likely, especially with Windows. I want something that runs every day and corrects the problems that occur on a daily basis. Especially when students and/or new users are using the computer. Things can really get messed up when the above people get there hands on a computer.
Where I work, we have about 10 different kinds of hardware configurations with 30 computers. We're a medium sized computer training business, so we have people who know next to nothing using these computers on a daily basis. 30-50 people use these computers EVERY day, and when they don't know what there doing for the most part, things can get really screwed up. But in a learning enviroment, locking people from certain areas of the system doesn't cut it. People don't learn when you lock them out. So we need to find a better approach.
Is there any software packages that support something similar to "imaging" only have a feature for computers with vastly different hardware? Like, to be honest it is really only a few registry key's that need changing to overcome this obsticle. (I know, because I've created software a few years back that did it. But unfortunately it doesn't work with FAT32, and I don't have the time to re-code it.)
It would be great to find a piece of software that takes care of this problem. Im sure its out there somewhere?
You can do it with just Samba (Score:1)
1. Install your standard client OS (Windows 95 or 98) and then use your favorite tool to collect a complete directory/file tree of this clean install. Make a backup of the registry.
2. Install your favorite app. over this clean install and again collect a complete directory/file tree of this clean install.
3. Diff the two trees. That's what was actually just install - well, almost. You also need to note changes to the registry.
4. Copy all the files that were installed off to a Linux box.
5. Share c:\ with a password on some other Windows box then smbmount that drive and push the files onto it.
I believe that you also have to push a small batch file onto their desktop that will merge in the new registry elements and reboot their computer.
It works pretty nicely but it does require minimal user interaction - that is, they need to run the batch file at the end of the install. I seem to recall that I saw this demo'd where the batch file actually ran automatically and all the user actually had to do was click a button to reboot their computer.
To make this work you'ld have to maintain tight control over each computer, however. It must have a specific group/name and a specific password to share c:\ with read/write permissions. The proof of concept that I saw with this was demo'd with a database that contained group/name/password, MAC address, (IP address if you want to use statically assigned IP's), and user contact information. The system also housed a seperate database that contained license information for each application.
The user only need to visit a URL, select the update/app. that they wanted installed and give a password. If their authenticity and right to a license was verified from the database their windows box was smbmounted and the software installed.
The install was noted in the database so duplicate installs couldn't be made automatically and to keep licensing information current.
The added benefit was that you could also use DHCP to administrate the IP's. That also allowed them (a university) to hand out IP's only to known clients. Others got none routed IP's that could only be used to reach a campus registration server where they could request full access.
Only useful if configured correctly. (Score:1)
I can give an example. The site where I am currently reluctantly employed uses Ghost to configure all their Win95 PCs, which was a management decision. I do not know who was responsible for the initial PC build, but it has a number of terrible faults. Basically, whoever did it was clueless regarding PC installations - the default IDE driver is used, without DMA, as opposed to the correct driver from the PC manufacturer. Consequentially, all PCs are running at around 20% efficiency when accessing the hard disk. In addition, many applications are incorrectly configured. The company has then decided to use a software deployment and asset management package to manage all these workstations. This was installed on the Ghost image, but again not configured correctly. We now have an asset management database with 100s of unknown PCs, not one of them can be traced. Management themselves are blaming my department, yet we did not roll out the software.
The other major problem with these machines is that they are dual login (WinNT, Novell 3). Every PC has the name service provider in the incorrect order, meaning it can take up to 5 minutes to log into the morning.
I do not like these so called administration saving products. Every time I hace seem them installed, an idiot has been responsible, and the whole site has badly configured machines.
Then again, the industry nowadays is full of ignorant morons who do not deserve their pay-cheques.
NDS for Linux--half the solution (Score:1)
With some playing, you could probably get the ZEN client files on a Samba share, or even a mars-nwe thing, or, if it was more modern, the Caldera NetWare for Linux product, but the latter is almost certainly not compatible with NDS for Linux (the DS versions are way off.) Ooh, ooh, Samba should be able to use NDS for Linux's PAM auth just fine, so you'd have a single password solution for drive mounting...
You're going to have to do a lot of work no matter what. I'm really fascinated though by the idea, and may throw some resources at it in my spare time.
--Mike
The Hidden Cost of ZEN (and SMS) (Score:1)
I can't think of any software that will provide application packages for ZEN aside from Novell's own servers.
I may be underestimating your school district, but I am surprised they would be using ZEN at all. As it stands right now, using ZEN for package deployment requires a massive initial commitment with experienced techs, to build those packages. Many apps have strange interdependencies that make it difficult to employ ZEN at an application-by-application level. (The Unholy Trinity comes to mind: IE, Outlook and Office.)
If you can justify that kind of initial commitment, you must realize that many application providers will not support apps installed via ZEN, since they have no way of testing your layout in-house. Again, Microsoft comes to mind, as does Adobe.
If you are using this simply to speed the building and development of workstations which don't vary greatly from user to user, I would suggest using Symantec's Ghost to build each one from a set of four or five images, one for each hardware base and user class, accompanied by careful setup to ensure the users maintain their data on a networked drives. Most application providers will support this arrangement.
This will still require an initial commitment to designing /good/ initial images, and, when you have to patch one of the built machines, you'll either have to do it by hand, or by slipping it into their login scripts.
Btw, LanManager, which is now free from microsoft, can be used to build a wonderful bootdisk which maps a drive to a shared directory containing Ghost and various build images. Sure beats running around with a stack of images on CDROM. It works even better when accompanied by a Xircom Pocket Etherlink Adapter, which converts a parallel port into a network interface. No NIC? No problem!
ZEN is nice but not always. (Score:1)
What's wrong with ZEN? (Score:1)