Celeron 466 - Good Or Bad? 50
CitizenC asks: "My current system is a Pentium 166MMX, 64 Megs SD Ram. Video card is a Creative Labs Voodoo Blaster Banshee PCI, 16Meg. I'm thinking about upgrading to the Pentium 2-3 range, however, Im currently experiencing a money problem. (The problem being that I dont have enough.) When I asked around, I kept hearing good things about the newer generation of Celeron processors. Thus, my question is this: If I were to get an Intel Celeron 466, would it be a good choice, given that I do alot of 3D gaming? If not, why? And if so, what motherboard should I get?"
And remember: Geeks always love computer upgrades as Christmas presents.
not too bad (Score:1)
Seti@home does run about as fast as it would on a PII 300, it's even better for other apps.
To overclock or not to overclock.... (Score:2)
Not a bad choise, per say.... (Score:1)
Celery is great for games (Score:2)
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excellent choice, per se (Score:2)
celerons are hands down the best processors to buy if you're on a budget and don't let anyone tell you any different. you can pick up a 466 for less than US$70 right now and with some cooling it should overclock to 550 easy. if you go with a 366 celeron you should still be able to overclock it 500+ with cooling - intel's yields on celerons are very good, so a lot of the time there is little difference between the slower and faster models besides the 'official' clock rate. i've read about celeron 300As overclocked past 600mhz. performance is usually about the same as a p2/p3 at the same clock rate (though the celerons use a slower bus...)
i'll have to respectfully disagree with the last poster: you'd be crazy to upgrade the 16 meg banshee when you've got a 166 in there. your processor is much farther behind than your video card.
if visit this site on a regular basis you won't go wrong: www.anandtech.com [anandtech.com]
it's a slashdot-esque site dealing only with the x86 hardware industry (mainly the gaming side of it...). they link to stories/reviews/etc that other good hardware sites publish. there are many nice hardware sites out there, if you look at anandtech you will quickly find some good ones.
this page does a 'weekly cpu price guide' article in which they also recommend which cpus they think are the best to buy: www.sharkyextreme.com [sharkyextreme.com]
if i were going to buy a computer right now it'd definitely have an abit bp6 mainboard with a pair of overclocked celerons.
Celerons are fast enough (Score:2)
First, go get a celeron especially if you're a bit short on cash. The bang for the buck is waaay up there.
Second, make sure you get a good motherboard. I use ABIT motherboards almost exclusively because they make good overclocking boards and they are very easy to set up. I'm sure there are other, more stable boards out there but ABIT works for me. There is also a dual celeron processor capable ABIT board out there, I think it's the BP6.
Third, visit some web sites that offer celeron/motherboard/ram packages and see what you can get. There are places that will sell you a celeron 366 guaranteed to run at 550mhz for right around the price of a "real" celeron 466. Check out http://www.computernerd.com for examples of what I'm talking about. They're not the only site out there though.
If you get a dual processor mobo and eventuallly get 2 of those celeron 366's clocked at 550 each, you would be running a pretty darn fast linux box
Good luck!
433 gets my approval (Score:2)
I'm not sure how a 466 would affect your ability to OC, if that's your thing, but the 433 all on it's own is more than sufficient for current games. You're likely to hit another limit before your processor gets to be too slow, like not enough RAM, or a fast enough graphics board.
Re:Celery is great for games (Score:1)
This comment makes it sound as if it would be not worth your time to even try an SSE-enabled game. The truth of the matter is, the celeron would be more than fast enough. Sure, it would not be as fast as a PIII at the same clock speed, but who cares? There's no rule that says you have to beat the reccomended requirements for every game, now is there?
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Re:Celery is great for games (Score:2)
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Celeron 466/Mobo (Score:3)
Re:Dual Overclocked celerons and Linux (Score:1)
BTW, I have used RedHat 6 and 6.1, and Mandrake 6.1 with success. The both recognize both processors fine, I get about 1100 BogoMips.
-Smitty
366 Celron (Score:1)
My friend has way too good a job for a young single guy and wanted a great computer for gaming. We decided that an overclocked 366 would be just the ticket. We got two celron 366's for $148 off of E-Bay; he'd get the one that could do 550 and I'd take the other one and put together a 366 system out of less expensive parts.
His system has an ABIT BE-6 motherboard, a Viper 770 Ultra video card, and a Western Digital ATA66 hard drive, name brand CAS2 memory, and an ASUS Slotket adapter.
For my 366 system I purchased an A-Trend bx motherboard (I don't have it here with me as I'm at work right now) mainly because it was cheap, a $50 8mb AGP video card, no name CAS3 memory (I'm pushing it to CAS2), and a Jet Slotket converter (very cheap).
We put his system together first. We carefully sanded the Celeron slug and heatsink down flat. Put a thin layer of thermal grease on. The machine came up and ran but wasn't very stable until we upped the voltage to 2.3 volts. We tried both CPUs and it didn't seem to make much difference. This system isn't the very picture of stability but it's good enough.
Then I built my system after I got done scrounging the parts (on the cheap as much as possible). I wanted to see if it would overclock to 550 but I was expecting that it would not. This thing is quite solid at 550. This thing is running
Windows 98 on it so I'm not going to say it never hangs but I don't think I have hardware issues. By the way there is no voltage adjustment on this board so I'm running standard voltage.
So if you're going to overclock a 366 be carefull about installing the heat sink. Don't believe everything you read about motherboards. Choose your video card for stability. I think that my friend's system is held back because Diamond hasn't put out any new drivers for that video card.
Re:Dual Overclocked celerons and Linux (Score:2)
The ATA/66 support works great under Linux. You need to get the HPT366 patch (available from here [unc.edu] or any other kernel.org mirror). The README says it won't boot from the ATA/66 bus, but it works fine for me.
The Win9x and NT support is fine, but get the newest drivers from here [bp6.com]. After applying the newest BIOS flash I was unable to install Win2k, but with the earlier BIOS it worked fine.
Also, the BP6 website [bp6.com] has some useful information.
Re:To overclock or not to overclock.... (Score:1)
366 works great (Score:1)
forget Celery (Score:1)
Of hardware and cheapness (Score:2)
``Screw you, Joe! I'm Jane Slashdotfiend, and I think your brainwashed ways are corrupting the youth of our society as well as all the other posters here. The only REAL chips that gamerz use come from AMD. Sure, once overclocked to 1.3Ghz (which is faster than your cpu), they burn holes in the side of my case such that I have no need for a microwave, but I save $40 off a comparable Intax chip and don't support the Evil Empire.''
I don't understand WHAT is with this elitist viewpoint of overclocking and being flat out *cheap* on CPU purchases. Granted, I'll be the first one in line to say it's silly to spend double the price for 50MHz more from a PIII (according to Intel's tests, anyway), but when you dump all this money into a motherboard and six billion megahertz SDRAM, why are you skimping on the CPU?
Now, for `normal' PCs, I'd get a Celeron in a heartbeat. They're cheap. They're fast. They're from a company that's in bed with Microsoft, so it'll definately work with their operating systems for at least a few more years. (Note: I'm talking about a Mom-worthy system in this paragraph, not a geek system.) Around the office, they're perfect, too. Save a few hundred bucks... you don't need that extra 128K of cache anyway.
If you're building a box for a game system, sure, get the celeron... you can always upgrade to something else later. Or, hey, spend the $50-$100 extra to get a PIII. Those SIMD instructions are spiffy. And they're not THAT much more expensive. It's your choice. There's NOT THAT MUCH difference in performance OR price (pricewatch says ~$100... in an thousand dollar system, that's less than 10% of the price. Considering you're Internet ordering, that probably covers the sales tax you're saving; I assume, of course, you're ordering all your components from ONE vendor, right? Otherwise you'll pay more than $100 in shipping all the stuff just to save $8 on that motherboard you want).
Now, what I don't understand is the militant support of ``overclocking.'' Yeah, I've heard a billion times that the chips are the exact same core blah blah blah, but I enjoy paying extra for a chip that Intel will guarantee for that speed. I don't want to skimp and then realize ``oh, gee, it DOESN'T actually go that fast.'' Of course, I'm also the freak who actually gets the retail processors, since you get a fan and heatsink included, and oh yeah a three year almost-no-questions-asked warranty from one of the few tech companies that probably WILL be around in three years. (Them and Cisco, but that's one of my other rants.)
There's a difference between being economical and being CHEAP. And most of these gamers who are recommending hardware out there (and buying it, for that matter) are in the second category. Get over it. Stop preaching and go support the economy.
-Chris
Multipliers: 400 MHz better than 466? (Score:1)
The Sharky Extreme Overclocking Guide [sharkyextreme.com] claims that 75% of Celeron 466 can be overclocked to 525 MHz, that all 400 MHz CPUs can be overclocked to 450 MHz, and 85% to 498 MHz.
This led me to the conclusion that a 400 MHz Celeron might be better than a 466 MHz, due to the greater likelyhood of overclockability, and the fact that successfull overclocking will give a faster bus speed (83 MHz for 400 oc'd to 498 MHz).
Is there a flaw in my reasoning? Am I Comments?
Re:Of hardware and cheapness (Score:1)
Re:To overclock or not to overclock.... (Score:1)
My main machine is a BX 300a@450. So while FSB settings are spec'd at 66, it's clocked to 100. But as you say, FSB and RAM bus speeds are the same with the BX chipset, so setting one sets both. The FIC (using VIA MVP3 chipset) does allow different settings for RAM and FS Bus however.
Re:Of hardware and cheapness (Score:1)
I could have bought a PII 450 for $160, or bought a Celeron 300a for $90. So I buy the 300a and try to overclock it and HEY it works. SO now I have a 450 system for $70 less than it would have cost had I bough the P2. Sure I miss the 128K more cache of the PII sometimes, but not really. I can keep up in Quake2 with the best of 'em
So considering how well it's worked out for me, and apparently many others, I don't get your rant. Why should I spend $70 more on a piece of hardware that isn't worth it?
I agree some folks get a little crazy with their overclocking, but it's certainly a valid way to squeeze out more performance. Is it wrong for car entusiasts to tweak the stock engines, shocks, etc?
Hell no, it's accepted practice. As should be OC'ing if you're willing to accept the risk. I was, and am happy I did (and could afford the SoundBlaster Live with da money I saved).
I also saved $30 by buying an AMD K6-2 350 and OC'ing it to 400. Why not? That's $30 still in my pocket.
Guess it all silly though if your wealthy. ?
Re:To overclock or not to overclock.... (Score:1)
I have seen boards with seperate jumpers for RAM and CPU bus speeds, but I'm curious to know if the RAM could be clocked higher than the CPU. I assume not, since the bus to the RAM is regulated by the CPU.
BTW, I have yet another board which uses DIP switches. And here I thought they had all been burned in the Great Purges.
Re:To overclock or not to overclock.... (Score:1)
I dunno about clocking RAM higher than the CPU...like where a 66 FSB CPU is spec'd, yet the RAM is set to a 100mhz bus? I don't think that would work for the reasons you mention. It may not be unstable, but as the CPU path is 66, it would then be the bottleneck. Even if the RAM bus ran at 100, it would be waiting for the CPU to receive the data...right?
I have a Gigabyte TX motherboard which also uses DIP switches for most settings. I like it! So much easier to deal with than mutliple jumpers, and I ALWAYS loose a jumper cap or two when futzing. Thankfully, I can always pull a few from the 486 graveyard at work!
But Abit's softmenu is the way to go, IMO. Let's burn all DIPs AND jumpers...
Heats not so bad (Score:1)
being cheap vs. being economical (Score:2)
If you have a choice between buying a 80 horse power car and the exact same model but then with a 120 horse power engine, for exactly the same price, wouldn't you want to go with the 120 horse power version ? Or would that be too cheap, and would you voluntarily pay more money, if only to support the economy ?
Granted, it's not exactly the same as the situation. Suppose you'd buy a car with 80 horse power, and get the extra hardware to chip tune your car upto 120 horse power. By chip tuning it, you'd void your warrenty on the engine of the car, but you know that 99 % of the people who have done the procedure never had any trouble with their engine. You know that on average, your engine will last shorter. On the other hand, it's also a well known fact that the life expectancy of the rest of the car is still lower then that of a chip tuned engine.
Now you have to make a choice ....
Did you notice that word? I'll repeat it: choice. That is the key thing here, since it is up to you. If you ask others for advice, gather the real information and ignore the subjective oppinions.
So what if somebody thinks it's cheap? If you feel confortable with taking a short cut, then go for it.
On the other hand, so what if somebody thinks you're being stupid by choosing the safest path? If that is what you think is best, then ignore any comments on that.
Some last info: I run a Pentium 75 on 90 MHz for years now without a glitch. I did invest in solid hardware though, so in the end, the price was about the same, but I feel more confident about having name brand components with good support.
The Celeron is both in normal as in overclocked situations a good chip in price/performance. If you cannot afford the fastest CPU on the block but still want solid hardware and a clear upgrade path, this is your best choice, both overclocked as at the normal clock speed.
Re:433 gets my approval (Score:1)
Eat Celery, it's good for you! (Score:1)
Re:So where do I get a OC'able Celerons? (Score:1)
Re:Eat Celery, it's good for you! (Score:1)
So if going only for a single CPU system, the K6-III is a far better way to go for gaming than the Celery.
Re:Celerons.. (Score:1)
And Celery's have full speed cache dude.. Troll!
Stan "Myconid" Brinkerhoff