DVDs On DAT? 29
Guppy06 asks: "The big question about copying DVDs (other than legality) seems to be "What do you do after being able to decode it?" A cursory scan of Pricewatch shows that DAT tapes are now big enough to hold the entire contents of a DVD and then some. I know that tapes in general have been relegated to the back-up role because of their slow search times and, to some extent, slow read/write times. However, you don't exactly need ATA-100 (or even a 12x DVD-ROM) to watch DVD-quality streaming video from start to finish. So, my question is 'Would it be possible?' If not, what's standing in the way, and are those problems long-term or short-term? How fast are read/write times on DATs increasing, if any? DATs are an ancient technology (by computer standards), widespread, cheap, and not easily censorable in the near future. It might be a better alternative to bending over for the MPAA for playing/recording large media files." As long as the data transfer rate is sufficient for real-time playback of a DVD, I don't see why something like this can't be done. Of course you will lose the searching capabilities (playback in a differing speeds both forwards and backwards), but when you are just playing a DVD, do you really need those?
Jeez... (Score:1)
Indigita (Score:3)
Re:Yes, this exists, but is not the best solution. (Score:2)
No, DV actually uses an encoding similar to (but not the same as) motion JPEG. So, like MJPEG and MPEG it uses discrete cosine transforms to compress individual frames, but unlike MPEG it does not have any temporal compression. Frames are recorded individually, which requires a much higher bit rate (25 Mbps) than MPEG2. This is good for editing, but not ideal for storage.
DV is a standard format, you can buy recorders and players (including portable decks) that won't be unique to your personal setup. Downside: recompression and different colorspace divisions (4:2:0 on DVD, 4:1:1 for NTSC DV) will hurt quality slightly.
Definitely not, and if you're using MiniDV or Digital8 tapes you'll get at most an hour per tape, so 2 tapes are needed for most movies. The larger DVCAM tapes can hold 2 hours or so, but are much more expensive than most DVDs.
Why would you want to? (Score:2)
What's the rationale here?
Re:they already have that, sort of (Score:1)
Once you can watch them... (Score:1)
If you really want to pirate movies (as long as DVDs stay cheap, why would you? They're cheaper then mucic CDs!), are you sure a public forum is the best place to discuss it? The MPAA has more money then the Church of Scientology...
Re:Yes, this exists, but is not the best solution. (Score:1)
My VCR has 2 bays - VHS on the right and DV on the left. The DV bay will take either DV or Mini DV.
I'd love to find a Linux solution that will stream out the firewire port to the deck's firewire - Since the deck refuses to record MacroVision streams, I'd have to strip that out of the video, without going to analog. (The DeCSS version I use strips that.
Anyone know of a solution?
(Oddly, the main reason I need this is not to pirate, it's because I am really hard on discs...)
Cheers,
Jim
Yes, this exists, but is not the best solution. (Score:2)
It also is about an hour per tape... two tapes per movie (or one tape per episode of Junkyard Wars!). Sony makes a VERY nifty device that encodes various formats to DV... it's referenced on Apple's site with their high end Macs.
And yes, most DAT drives for backup purposes are around $1000... I have two, one for home use, and one at the office. The tapes are dirt cheap, however. It would be possible to do this with an MPEG-1 or MPEG-2 stream, but the listed capacity is generally pre-compression (the backup devices compress on the fly onto the tape).
I have a friend who is wholesale converting his large videotape collection to DiVX ;-) on CD-Rs. That seems to me to be the best solution... we often watch Anime on his 'Toshi-chan' laptop at Dennys or other restaurants. Gets quite a few looks, but is fun.
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Evan
Re:Yes, this exists, but is not the best solution. (Score:3)
Definitely not, and if you're using MiniDV or Digital8 tapes you'll get at most an hour per tape, so 2 tapes are needed for most movies. The larger DVCAM tapes can hold 2 hours or so, but are much more expensive than most DVDs.
Well, technically, the tapes are actually very small, and in many cases, two tapes are easier to pack than a jewel case. Of course, the tapes are heat sensitive, and DVDs can fit very nicely in CD binders...
And just in case anyone thinks I'm 'defending' this solution, I'll reiterate that I think backing up to CD-R using one of the recent high compression video codecs is currently the best solution, but that will likely change before the year is out. You can play them on just about any laptop without any additional fancy hardware investment.
Sure, DiVX ;-) is not truly open source, but there are now variants that are. The benefit is that you won't see the format fall by the wayside... you will always be able to read it.
And I just thought of another bad trait of using tapes for movies - you generally have to have yet another power cable, meaning another outlet, which also generally precludes using portable gear to view them (a DVD->CD-R rip (if you have a laptop without a DVD drive) can mean bringing your own movies on flights or car trips).
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Evan
Re:Jeez... (Score:1)
(damn I hate it when I rent a movie and can't play it on my PS2!)
Re:they already have that, sort of (Score:1)
they already have that, sort of (Score:3)
Anyway, is it even possible to store/playback video on DAT's? Seems not to smart to me.
Re:they already have that, sort of (Score:1)
Re:they already have that, sort of (Score:1)
Bloddy annoying!
Re:Jeez... (Score:3)
Re:Yes, this exists, but is not the best solution. (Score:1)
Re:Jeez... (Score:3)
A nastier effect of the legal underhandedness in the RIAA/MPAA/SPA war against Fair Use is the fear on the part of manufacturers of producing digital storage or playback units that can store video or audio. Where the hell are the hard drive-equipped audio components that could store 10,000 MP3's? Where are the laptop-dervived audio units that should play MP3's in my car? The manufacturers are afraid of getting sued, under recent legal precedent that even MAKING equipment that could facilitate "piracy" is de facto illegal becaues the MPAA/RIAA could possibly lose 2 cents. The *possiblity* is all that is required now in court, and the manufacturer could be liable for damages.
This is getting sick.
Re:Jeez... (Score:1)
Not sure what you mean exactly by laptop derived but these will give you mp3's in your car!:
Re:Jeez... (Score:4)
As I understand it you are legally allowed on copy for backup purposes. This just might be the backup solution suitable for DVDs.
Now more on-topic: I would assume a tape drive would have a high enough transfer rate for full motion video and it really wouldn't be that hard to hack up some software to read/write to a tape drive with video data would it? The problem I see is drive noise. I'm sure there are quiet ones out there, but the ones I have experience are rather loud. So unless the computer is far away from your viewing area the noise might be less than desireable.
Re:Jeez... (Score:2)
Now THAT would be nice.. at CD/DVD replacement program for a dollar or so a disk. Yes, I suppose I could use CD-R's, but then I would have to burn them ahead of time... too late if the CD gets damaged. Not worth the effort and aggrivation. And forget the price on DVD-R's. Just mail in the damaged CD/DVD as proof, and they replace it. Anybody know if any of the labels have a deal like this already?
tape drive cheap, TAPE expensive (Score:1)
You could also look at an Ecrix [ecrix.com] drive, about $500 through the LUG deal [ecrix.com], which stores 33 GB on an 8mm cartridge costing $65 or so (ouch). I've heard of people punching holes in hi-8 video editing tape (Sony HMEAD E6-120, about $13 per tape at B&H Photo) and getting good results with that. The 120 minute video tape holds about 20 GB since it's shorter than the Ecrix tape. Still, this is kludgy and maybe flaky. Basically all tape media are overpriced right now. CD-R is a lot cheaper, but the capacity is too low to really dub video in style.
It's probably best to just wait for recordable DVD to get cheaper. Recordable DVD is available now, but costs a lot. Consumer products are coming though, and within a year or so it will be like CD-R.
Finally, there's good old analog videotape...
Warning: Attempted Joke coming. (Score:1)
No Applause, just throw money.
Re:they already have that, sort of (Score:1)
Tape marketers are scammers.
Could be made to work, but... (Score:2)
I have a sneaking suspicion, however, given that the cheapest DAT drive that's fast enough is over $1000 MSRP, you might get better results just using a DVD-RAM drive for your MPEG-ripping enjoyment. The media's either as expensive or a little more expensive than DAT (You can get DDS2 and DDS3 media, but I have a sneaking suspicion that the DDS4 -- $19 on PriceWatch -- media is required to get the required transfer rate) and the drives are $300-400.
So, really, the DAT drive seems to be a better deal. Unless you already have the drive, it's not worth getting one.
Re:Jeez... (Score:1)
Re:they already have that, sort of (Score:1)
Hmmm (Score:1)
Too much work, just use HDD (Score:1)
After factoring the cost of the Tape Drive, the Media, the empty area on the end of a tape that is wasted, and the time or money for the software to perform the playback, looks to me like you should just buy a bunch of cheap hard drives and copy the files. If you are worried about data recovery, use RAID-5, even with the extra $100 I think it'll come out cheaper in the end. Plus, with hard drives, you'll have many different options to play back the video. Better yet, get an external setup and take your movies to your friends! Hey... maybe there's a new product there...
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He had come like a thief in the night,
Sounds like a major kluge (Score:1)