Cheap and Easy Heatloss Detection?

Monty asks: "I'd like to measure heat loss to find out where to insulate and then find out if that is working. What can be done cheaply? Can I use my Sony's Nightvision and just cover up the IR emitter? Are there cheap but useful infrared cameras? What about plain infrared film? Or how about temperature data loggers? Where's a good place to ask these questions?"

Different kinds of infared

[ka9dgx]

The Sony and other CCD based devices do have some sensitivity in the near infared. This means they could (in theory) respond to a very hot source, such as a soldering iron glowing a dull red. (An experiment someone should try). They will NOT, however respond to the longer wavelengths of infared that you're looking for.

A heat sensor based on thermal radiation can only detect items that are warmer than itself, at a bare minimum, due to the laws of physics. That's why heat imaging cameras are so expensive, they have to cool the sensor down, usually using a Peltier effect junction, or in the case of a Sidewinder missile, a form of gas cooling.

I hope this all makes sense, and helps answer your question.

--Mike--

Chilly solution

[Anonymous Coward]

An easy way is to look at your roof after a frost (or light snow) -- see how it melts compared to your neighbors, and see if there are any hot spots.

I'm no physicist...

[Anonymous Coward]

...but I believe you'll find that any IR functionality your video camera might have isn't the right "range". I can't remember which is which ... infra-red can be categorized into "near infrared" and "far infrared". One is a measure of heat (and is hard to detect well enough to form a decent image from), and the other is just the common stuff used in VCR remotes, etc. (and is cheap and common to detect).

Re:I'm no physicist...

[Anonymous Coward]

"near infrared" and "far infrared"

If they would just use 32 bit pointers, they could address all infrared up to 4 gigabytes.

Re:I'm no physicist...

[terpia]

If they would just use 32 bit pointers, they could address all infrared up to 4 gigabytes

Sweet! Then we could build a beowulf cluster of these and have the worlds largest universal remote! You ould change an entire country's channel at once!

Good idea

[DaoudaW]

You could check out the Habitat for Humanity - Infrared Insulation Test [bobvila.com]. It seems they got a special camera from the DOE. I remember a few years back my utility company had a camera that they would use to check out your house if you gave them a call. You can also get IR film for 35mm cameras, but not sure it would do a very good job.

Why you can't...

[DaoudaW]

While looking up info on IR film I came across * Why you can't record heat with IR film, nor with ordinary videocams: IR & heat [a1.nl].

Apparently anything longer than red is IR, but the film or sensor only goes slightly past visible.

A *better* way...

[TeleoMan]

...is to film the area in question twice: before and after. Then superimpose the two images, you would be able to visually "subtract" the heat-loss giving an idea of the effectiveness of your insulation.
;-)

Forget it, Unless you are Rich

[tigersha]

Look at it this way. If you switch on a soldering iron or some cooking plates, it starts getting warmer and warmet and warmer. After a while it starts to glow dull red, and if you really jack it up to the max it might become bright red. This happens at fairly high temperatures (ie, 400 degrees centigrade or so). If you make it much htter it will begin to glow white because it start glowing into the green and blue parts of the spectrum, which combines to become white. In other words, for a thing to transmit heat into the visible wavelengths and those just below visible.

Now, cheap IR devices and IR film in a camera will reach into the IR but not far down. They will easily detect things that are pretty hot but which have not started to glow yet. If you want to watch coolish things (computers) you need something that can see the far infrared, and this is going to cost you lots of moolah. Like another post mentioned, it needs to be cooled (the Sidewinder uses liquid Nitrogen). Also, because the wavelength is very long, the pictures are quite blurry.

Of course, if you have an Athlon and take off the fan, you might just get it to radiate enough blackbody radiation to be detected on a cheapo IR sensor since it will reach temperatures not too far from the point where it will begin to glow. For a few seconds at least...

Btw, IR films in a camera are neat mostly because just below the visible part of the spectrum plants are pretty reflective, and therefore IR pics in nature look spooky. And you need a filter on them which filters out anything visible. These filters are practically black.

On another aside, some flowers have beautiful patterns in the near UV, just beyond the blue you can see. Insects CAN see that. Your retina is sensitive beyond the normal blue, but the lens absorbs it. People with a lens replacement (my father for instance) can see further into the blue spectrum. These slight-UV thingies which are used to make the flourescent marks in banknotes glow? My dad can see a blue light shining around the device, which you and I cannot.

Re:Forget it, Unless you are Rich

[Tackhead]

> Your retina is sensitive beyond the normal blue, but the lens absorbs it. People with a lens replacement (my father for instance) can see further into the blue spectrum. These slight-UV thingies which are used to make the flourescent marks in banknotes glow? My dad can see a blue light shining around the device, which you and I cannot.

Y'know, that sounds cool enough that I'm actually looking forward to getting old and needing the relevant surgery. ;-)

35mm IR film is your friend

[BigJim.fr]

Simply take any 35mm camera and load it with IR film. Cheap, easy.
And to save you some googling, here are a few links :

Photo know-how : Infrared 101 [photoquest.com]

Infrared photography [prairieghosts.com]

A comparison of infrared films [pauck.de]

Infrared photography [rit.edu]

Just ask mom

[[e-mail]]

I forwarded this to my mom, and here was her reply:

1. 90% of heat loss comes from your roof, so put a hat on it. (Don't worry if the hat looks stupid. If your neighbors make fun of you, they're not good neighbors.)
2. Dress your house in several light layers, instead of just one big layer.
3. Do all this anyway, even if you don't think that it's cold now. It'll probably get cold later.
4. Be extra sure not to let your house out if the roof is wet.

Love,
Mom

Maybe those "remote temperature sensors"?

[AtariDatacenter]

I seem to remember here and there, like Tom's Hardware Guide on the Athlon heat problem w/o a fan, that they used a little hand-held gizmo to measure the surface temperature of the CPU.

I don't know what the range (distance) is on those, or other limitations, but perhaps an idea would be that you can use it to spot check certain areas. Around windows, doors, specific places in the ceiling, etc.

Can anyone build on this?

Only ways I can think of...

[squeegee-me]

Unfortunalty, they are all expensive or just plane crazy. Buy (and be a jerk and return it when done) an IR heat camera. Or ask for a demo of one that you can hold onto for a week or so. Raytheon has an IR division, and they are the ones who make the IR Night Vision camera for Cadillac, but you cannot buy the camera alone, unless you are an auto manufacture. They have a lot more models as well that you can buy. Check out http://www.raytheoninfrared.com/html/prodmenu.htm for more info and what not. (Sorry no prices.)

Also, there is always the option of common sence while adding a bit of risk. I take no responsibilty for what you do with this info.

If your looking for hot spots on a solid metal case (no vet holes on the side you want to look at) try a spray bottel with water, and watch where it evaporates from first. Alcohaul would work too, and faster, but maybe too fast. Just remember water + electricty = bad things.

Try using your hand if it's safe and feel for warm spots verses other areas around it. Keep in mind, hot = pain, and flesh = conductor of electricity. If you want to stick your hand in the back of your TV and feel arround for hot spots, it's your life at risk, not mine.

Ask your local police department if they have a heat cam and if they would let you see your house through it. Often times they use them to look for "hot rooms" on homes in neighborhoods where they think there is a drug house growing things that they should not be. They may say yes, but they may also look closer at your house than you want. Hell, maybe Home Depot has them for rent now like an air hammer and a radial arm saw.

If you don't mind the mess, use wax, that melts at a temp just above the temp you want the thing to be at and spread some around. Cryans might work, or candels. Butter or Crisco also would work. I don't know their melting points, but butter has to be between 70 and 120 degrees F.

You may think I'm crazy, or on crack, but I am trying to help. Keep in mind, you never mentioned what you want to see the heat pattern on, whether house, car, ice fishing shack, custom electronic device, or something compleatly different. I hope this helps in some way.

Call your utility, and then guess.

[bluGill]

Call your local utility. Often at least one of them will have a program where they do an "energy audit" on your house for cheap or free.

If that doesn't work, attics, windows, walls, floors, in that order.

Start with the attic, it is normally cheap and easy to add more, though there is a point of diminishign returns. If you have more than 12 inches up there, you are probably just fine.

Then windows. Low-e windows really make a difference. Unfortunatly low-e windows are expensive. If you need to replace your windows anyway, then get low-e glass. Otherwise window insulator shrink-wrap kits are cheap and work well.

Walls are harder. I you need to tear off the covering anyway, then add something, other wise it is really hard to do something. A professional can pump foam into walls, but this leaves holes all over the house, so I don't know if I would recomend it. Get a bid and decide if it is worth it. Often walls are best ignored until you build new.

floors are almost a non-issue. Still an uninsulated floor will get cold. carpet is about all you really need though.

Less precision, but what I'm thinking of doing...

[angry_beaver]

I was actually thinking about something like this the other day. However, I was thinking of a different approach....

Install temperature sensors in each room of your house, connected to a central pc, or data logger, then, you could graph the heat loss in each room over time, and see which rooms are cooling the fastest.

My plan includes a sensor on the furnace, and an outdoor sensor. This way I can also see how long the furnace has to run to maintain an internal temperature given the outside temperature.

I know, I'm a serious geek, but I think it's cool :)

Spytech!!!

[affegott]

Hello All-

Just wanted to let you know that Spytech (the fake childrens spy game toys) released a thermal sensor. It has a bar graph of LEDs showing how hot something is. I got one when I was a kid, and it worked VERY well. (for a kids toy) It could pick up a person walking in front of it from 100'.

Later,
-Affe

Ask Mims

[Graymalkin]

Infrared cameras can be found pretty cheap from most security type places. You can get a IR camera that displays heat as colour from RadioShack for 200$, it has about 330 lines of vertical resolution IIRC. Black and white IR cameras are usually about 50$ cheaper but it's cool because they usually have RCA outputs and USB or Cardbus video capture devices work pretty well on most laptops. If you'd like something cheaper pick up a copy of Electronic Sensor Circuits & Projects by Forrest Mims III. It's a pretty keen book with good diagrams and explainations of the concepts behind the projects.

IR Thermometer

[YourMessageHere]

Radio Shack just introduced a handheld infrared thermometer for $49.99 (part #23-144). Your project would be time consuming with it, but you did emphasize cheap.