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Biotech Hardware

Disinfection Technology/Methods for Computer Equipment? 33

Posted by Cliff from the keeping-your-work-surfaces-bacteria-free dept.
smammon asks: "I manage the IT department for a pretty average hospital. Our equipment is used everywhere, including the patient rooms, operating suites, and hallways. We expect it to move into more areas (hands) in the future with advent of more and more wireless/handheld technology. Our problem is that even with constant employee education and regular maintenance/cleaning efforts on our part - it is still very common for equipment to become contaminated with all manner of nasty goo. We have been looking for a method of disinfection that kills the bugs without killing the equipment. So far the only reasonably good looking alternative is vaporized hydrogen peroxide. Problem is that it's not known to positively kill the kind of tough bug that lives on surfaces. Anyone know of, developing, or selling a method for disinfection of sensitive equipment? Any innovative solutions from the geek collective?"
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Disinfection Technology/Methods for Computer Equipment? More

Disinfection Technology/Methods for Computer Equipment?

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  • Hulk jokes aside... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Otter ( 3800 ) on Thursday July 17, 2003 @05:47PM (#6465757) Journal
    ...would gamma irradiation work? Normally that would be perfect for non-destructive sterilization (and you may already have the equipment) but I have no idea what it would do to microelectronics.

    • Re:Hulk jokes aside... (Score:5, Informative)

      by crmartin ( 98227 ) on Thursday July 17, 2003 @06:01PM (#6465840)
      Sadly, if there's anything like a PLA or EEPROM inside, you're hosed. I went through this for just *months* some time ago, when trying to figure out why a simple little box would work in the lab at my company, but not in the field. The answer was that the box was getting x-rayed in transit, causing the EEPROM to get random extra bits....

  • Goo? (Score:4, Funny)

    by GuyMannDude ( 574364 ) on Thursday July 17, 2003 @05:50PM (#6465770) Journal

    Our problem is that even with constant employee education and regular maintenance/cleaning efforts on our part - it is still very common for equipment to become contaminated with all manner of nasty goo.

    Actually, a lot of people who use their computers in the privacy of their own homes for, uh, recreational purposes have the same problem. You'll probably get lots of helpful ideas from the slashdot crowd!

    GMD

  • So, what does kill the bugs? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by PD ( 9577 ) *
    Will rubbing alcohol do? Or do you need to use hydrogen fluoride to kill the bugs? If you want to have a keyboard that will stand up to X antibiotic, then you need to tell us what X is.

    I'd recommend getting a waterproof keyboard and disinfect it like you'd clean a trash can. But if you're going to give it a betadine bath, you probably want something that won't discolor.
    • From the "vaporized hydrogen peroxide" it sounds like he's thinking of a bulk sterilization method where everyone's PDA is loaded on a cart at the end of the day and run through the process. I'd guess scrubbing with any particular solvent would be too labor-intensive.
    • I was thinking rubbing alcohol, too. I don't know how effective it actually is as a disinfectant, but every place I've worked as an electronic technician has used rubbing alcohol to clean the boards.

      Another response mentioned that it's probably some sort of automated process. I would say that as long as the devices are easily de-powered (removable batteries and such), a soak in a tub of isopropal would probably do the trick. I doubt they'd have to do much more scrubbing than they'd have to do otherwise. My

  • Something anhydrous, naturally (Score:5, Interesting)

    by dacarr ( 562277 ) on Thursday July 17, 2003 @06:05PM (#6465876) Homepage Journal
    There is mention of drunk mouse syndrome [catb.org], wherein a declared alcoholic mouse (yes, see the link) was sent to be "dried out in a CFC ultrasonic bath". As I understand it, this is not dissimilar to the anhydrous dips that they used to dunk crufty keyboards into to clean them as well.

    To wit, while this may not totally *disinfect* your gear, this will most certainly decruft it.

    • Problem is, it may be necessary to
      1. use a water-alcohol blend to un-goo the gear: some kinds of gunk don't dissolve in normal water ( oils ) and some don't dissolve in dry alcohol, and some don't dissolve in things like petroleum ether, either...

      Alcohol-water mixtures, though, possibly with something like Alconox ( or whatever happens to be appropriate for your setting ), is more likely to do-the-trick.

      The reason I'm thinking this may be a serious item is:
      2. what if one chemically cracks all the 'bu

      • Point there, but what if then they did that ultrasonic bath in the stuff? The problem with hydrous mixtures is that you will have to allow your components to dry out for *days*, and even then there's no guarantee oxidation won't happen.

        • I've heard there's something called Forced Warm-Air Drying, that uses things like Warm Air and Fans ( coupl'a cheap electric blowing heaters, gettable from Home Hardware, costs less than $100 ea, standard plug-in )...

          Similar to the theoretical 'Dryer' thing that laundry types may use, in concept...

          I don't know why you only worked with dry-by-ageing method, but it isn't, I believe, the only drying-method 'round...

          I could be rong, though...

          ( and yes, if using ultra-sonic to get stuff clean, then a bit

  • Plastic (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Henry V .009 ( 518000 ) on Thursday July 17, 2003 @06:13PM (#6465947) Journal
    Wrap up everything with plastic. Switch out the plastic.
    /low-budget

  • Bad keyboard? Throw it away! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Micro$will ( 592938 ) on Thursday July 17, 2003 @06:19PM (#6466010) Homepage Journal
    Keep the computers and monitors in goo proof cases, and maintain a supply of disposable keyboards and mice. Keyboards and mice can be had for less than $10 retail, and much less than that online or wholesale. The other alternative is those $40 waterproof keyboards. I don't know of any waterproof pointing devices though. Perhaps some industrial strength touchpads?
    • No kidding. A can of keyboard cleaner costs about the same as a keyboard, plus all the cleaner does is blow dust around.
    • "Keep the computers and monitors in goo proof cases, and maintain a supply of disposable keyboards and mice."

      I think this idea has merit. Back when I was taking biology, we did this experiment where we had to swab four different things onto agar and observe the bacterial growth. My group did a keyboard from a computer lab as well as a railing, a door handle and a classroom desk surface.

      The growth from the keyboard grew faster and had more types of stuff growing than all the others combined. It eventua

  • Real Problem is several problems (Score:5, Informative)

    by MountainLogic ( 92466 ) on Thursday July 17, 2003 @06:31PM (#6466129) Homepage
    You need to both kill bugs AND remove the goo. The standard way to quash the bugs is either heat, radiation or chemical. With Ethylene Oxide [nsc.org] (these links [engineeringreference.com] too [devicelink.com]) being common for many medical devices.

    You need to select devices that can be hosed down. That means comercial devices that almost meet NEMA 4. The only way to get rid of goo is soap and water. Retail devies are just not ment for a medical environment. And you must get rid of the goo BEFORE you sterilize. That goo can carry pirons (sp?) even after EtO so plan for soap and water. There are sources of ruggedized tools such as Symbol Technologies [symbol.com]. You are going to pay more, but you have a responsability to do it right.

    Go to a medical or engineering school and ask for their Bioengineering department and ask for help. This is way over the head of /.

    • Re:Real Problem is several problems (Score:1, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      "this is way over the head of slashdot"...

      Agreed! When I worked in a hospital environment, EVERY piece of electronic equipment had to get the stamp of approval from the Medical Engineering Department. I once brought an "unauthorized" answering machine into my office and it ended up disappearing and getting stamped and stickered as having been approved and inspected by medical engineering. I don't know if they really tested it for anything, but in the medical world, litigation and malpractice are overly

  • Google?? (Score:5, Informative)

    by linuxwrangler ( 582055 ) on Thursday July 17, 2003 @06:37PM (#6466182)
    I hate to use the so often used refrain in "ask Slashdot" questions but Try Google (tm).

    The thing you are most concerned with is the input device - everything else can be in a sealed box so type into Google "industrial keyboards" and hunt to your heart's content.

    You might, for example, discover on the first page of returns the MGR Keymate 2 [mgrind.com] which is "a sealed keyboard featuring a smooth membrane ideal for food and beverage and medical applications where wash down / sterilization is needed." (emphasis mine).

    You may even discover that many of these keyboards are rated for use in explosive environments, say where you have things like ether, oxygen and alcohol though I can't possibly think of such a place at the moment.

    • Oh yes ... I would DEFINITELY recommend industrial explosion-proof keyboards.

      Ether is pretty much out of fashi9on as an anesthetic, but there are MANY other inflammable/explosive-vapor substances scattered all over a hospital. In fact, I would be surprised if one of the regulatory bodies governing hospitals didn't require that the entire system be explosion-proof (keyboard, mouse, monitor AND system unit).

      Of course an added benefit of using an explosion-proof system is that any system that is vapor-tight
  • if you spend some extra dough on custom hermeticaly sealed carriers/cases/enclosuers for these devices, be it lexan, aluminum, staneless steel, plastic wrap etc. If you are using tablets and touch screen devices how about using the hardmaterial to cover the bulk of it and a removeable replaceable plastic covering for the screen section (like some cellphone cases). Once you get the equipment back you toss the screen protecor (depening on type) and remove the device from its hermeticaly sealed protecive home

  • O3 (Score:2)

    by Papineau ( 527159 )

    I know ozone is already used in various water treatment plants around the world. And there's a company (TSO3 [tso3.com]) which manufactures enclosures to disinfect tools used in surgery, especially tools which cannot withstand the heat used by other enclosures. Of course, being manufactured for surgeons, it'll be quite pricier than something of more general use, but electronics will much probably withstand such a treatment.

    Disclaimer: I own some of their stock, although I'm not an employee or otherwise affiliated wit

  • UV? (Score:2)

    by Yarn ( 75 )
    I used to work in a hospital, and in areas where bacterial contamination is possible the room is flooded with UV when unoccupied.
  • ...doing IT support, for server and desktop. I've found that systems that are left out where "bad things" can happen to them tend to be in the best shape, whereas it's the computers in the offices of doctors and staff that are the nastiest things I've ever had to touch.

    It seems to me like most of these docs don't know the first thing about hygeine, let alone the first thing about spreading disease. I've gone so far as to wear the bright green latex gloves while working with someone's keyboard because it
  • I work in a dental office and we have the same problems, it's a case where anything stronger enough to achieve hospital grade disinfection and or sterilization, is inherently corrosive to something.

    Synthetic phenols are the worst, they'll slowly disolve any plastic, corrode any metal except stainless steel, and build up a gunk in time that'll short out or jam any switches ect

    Quantrinary ammonium-halides in a isopropanol solution seem to be the least destructive in general at our office. Just remember it t
  • I've done some work cleaning out school computers, and I've found that Speedball is about as good as it gets. It gets damn near anything off.

  • A dishwasher will often clean (Score:3, Interesting)

    by bluGill ( 862 ) on Saturday July 19, 2003 @03:30PM (#6479850)

    You can get the goo off of most keyboards in a normal household dishwasher, so long as your water heater isn't set too high. Just make sure things are dried out properly before you try using them again. This won't sterilize things, but if you do it regularly you can at least make sure there is nothing for the nasties to eat when they do get inside. (Which does not solve all problems, but helps a great deal)

    Note that you need to do a full backup before trying this, and I'd try it with some sacrificial systems first. Wouldn't surprize me if harddrives and cdroms don't survive this treatment. See if you can re-oil all the fans. At least find out how long the average machine survives a this. If you find a machine normally last 48 cycles, then plan on once a month washings, and throw them away (recycle) after 4 years. This should help a lot A lot of labor, but I know of system admins who regularly take a keyboard home for washing.

    From what I understand about hospital breading sterilzation resistant strains of nasties, I would want you throwing everything out every few years anyway. I'm not an expert, but I would think that you are like most other IT deparments with plenty of obsolete, throw away, machines that you can expiriment with before working with machine you care about. Once you know what works and for how long you can make a plan which includes a few (statistical number of) machines not surviving.

    • The best way to have an 'always clean' keyboard is to use one that never can get dirty. What about using the virtual keyboard that is now available for tablet pc's? I don't know if anyone is marketing a virtual mouse [think trackball] yet, but there is no reason why it would be nearly as difficult as the keyboard, which has gotten positive reviews.
  • buy new equipment. but make sure to first sell the old equipment on Ebay first.

    I'm just kidding.

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