Switching from Phone to Voice-Over-IP? 103
An anonymous reader asks: "I am fed up with the telcos. My last phone bill for one line was over $100 _without_ the $45 for ADSL, so i'm looking to cut as many costs as I can. I've compared my current Voice + Internet solution to one consisting of Voice-over-IP and Cable Internet and it looks like I would save over $50 a month by throwing away my land-line phone and switching to Cable/VoIP. I'm new to the whole changing-from-POTS-to-VoIP process though, so what are some of the 'gotchas' involved with switching? Can I keep my existing number? Will calls suck my bandwidth dry? And most importantly, do any of these VoIP providers work with or support Linux?"
Skype has better sound quality... (Score:4, Informative)
And is also Windows-only (Score:4, Informative)
and doesn't let him keep his phone number
but other than that, yes, it totally fits the bill!
Link to Skype. OneSuite. (Score:4, Informative)
Link: Skype [skype.com]
I've been using Skype to talk with a friend in France, from Oregon. The sound quality is excellent, much better than crackly old telephones. The link is computer to computer, and we both have high-speed internet connections.
Also, try OneSuite [onesuite.com]. 2.5 cents per minute to use a regular, scratchy traditional phone.
Both of these make me realize that the telephone companies are charging too much. When you talk, you are only transferring a few bits of digital information. Everyone's conversations are aggregated into a huge data stream that is very cheap to send by optical fiber.
Open Source Skype replacement? (Score:3, Interesting)
Another thing. Skype operates with a totally firewalled computer. When it finds that its ports are closed, it uses the browser port, port 80. This raises interesting questions of security. Anything can be transmitted over port 80.
It also raises interesting questions of writing an open source version of Skype that would hook to regular phone lines.
Re:Open Source Skype replacement? (Score:1)
http://www.asterisk.org
http://www.dig
no additional hardware... (Score:2)
I thought Asterisk required special hardware, but I guess not: "Asterisk needs no additional hardware for Voice over IP."
Anyone have any experience with Asterisk without special hardware? Can I connect to an Internet address directly?
Is the sound quality as good as Skype?
Re:no additional hardware... (Score:1)
Re:Link to Skype. OneSuite. (Score:1, Insightful)
Please dig up all of north america and bury fiber. Then get back to us about how cheap it really is.
There is already too much fiber. (Score:2)
Re:There is already too much fiber. (Score:1)
Re:There is already too much fiber. (Score:2)
There is never too much fiber. It will be used. When you say "50% is not being used" are you talking about average load or peak load? Peak usage can be orders of magnitude larger than average usage. Think of Christmas (or Thanksgiving for you American types).
What about virus outbreaks? They tend to double or triple the amount of email traffic on the wire at any one time.
If your 2GHz CPU had an average load of 1%, would you replace it with a
Re:There is already too much fiber. (Score:3, Informative)
Do a google search on "dark fibre" (avoid the textiles links)
Lessig in is "The Future of Ideas" refers to this, the fiscal value of the communication commons depends on managing the scarcity.
Try this story [theregister.co.uk] where we learn about the lack of scarcity on London.
In theory, yes (Score:4, Interesting)
Linux support-wise, Vonage supposedly supports Linux, though honestly I'd go with one of the hardware VoIP phones anyway, just for matters of simplicity (like when it comes to devices grabbing your hardware and fighting between mp3 playback and phonecalls, and just simple matters of Linux audio sometimes being a pain to deal with).
Personally I just use a cellphone for my primary phone line, but it sounds like you make way more calls than I do.
Re:In theory, yes (Score:2)
Re:In theory, yes (Score:2, Informative)
Re:In theory, yes (Score:2)
Re:In theory, yes (Score:2)
I've been fairly impressed with Vonage's service, but the quality is similar to a cellphone... It sounds good, but you can tell there is a fair amount of latency. Sure beats paying my local telco monopoly, though. =)
Re:In theory, yes (Score:1)
Re:In theory, yes (Score:2)
They're pretty dummy proof. Plug one jack into your switch, one jack into a patch cable to a jack on your existing phone wiring, or straight into a phone, and plug in power. They're sent with the info they need to get started already on 'em.
No software required, deals with shitty DHCP and shitty NAT rather we
NAT nat nat.. (Score:5, Informative)
Most of the commercial providers will solve these issues for you. I'm currently using vonage [www.vonage] at home for my second line. I still keep a traditional landline for E911 and other functionality. The whole "where is your service located" issue is quite interesting on this front when you call emergency services. Since I could take my Vonage hardware with me to a friends house if I were traveling, it makes it quite tricky. Plus you don't need to have a phone number that is within your local calling area.
I'm interested in hearing from vonage (and other) VoIP users that have called 911 and if there were any complications..
Re:NAT nat nat.. (Score:2)
You are wasting your money.
Re:NAT nat nat.. (Score:2)
I'm additionally insuring that if I do lose my internet connectivity (employer change, etc...) that I am not
Tell that to Qwest (Score:1)
Re:Tell that to Qwest (Score:1)
Re:NAT nat nat.. (Score:1)
Re:NAT nat nat.. (Score:2)
This is the law! A federal one at that. If you move to a new home and there is no dialtone, the phone company is breaking
Re:NAT nat nat.. (Score:2)
Re:NAT nat nat.. (Score:2)
Re:NAT nat nat.. (Score:1)
Not to downplay what you're saying, but I think the biggest concern is that moving away from a telco means you can't get a dialtone during a power outage. It's one of the three remaining reasons I keep traditional phone service.
DISCLAIMER: I work for a telco, but not the one the submitter linked to.
Re:911 (Score:1)
Might be cheap now (Score:1)
The cost savings for a single user just are not going to be there. VoIP might be cheap for large companies that do $10K in long distance a month. But for Joe user it's not cost effective and the sound quality can suffer. It's cheaper to get a Cell phone with free nights/weekends and a good min/month plan.
$100!? (Score:1)
Re:$100!? (Score:1)
DSL is the killer here (Score:3, Interesting)
Why haven't these 2 services been separated? What if I want DSL for Internet access and Vonage for phone (for example). Why should I have to pay the phone company tax to get that?
Re:DSL is the killer here (Score:2)
Re:DSL is the killer here (Score:1)
Re:DSL is the killer here (Score:1)
Re:DSL is the killer here (Score:2)
Re:DSL is the killer here (Score:2)
Or think up something else yourself. a truely spare phone line is a wonderful resource to play with.
Re:DSL is the killer here (Score:2)
That's what I did.
Don't believe me? Call your phone company.
Re:DSL is the killer here (Score:1)
Primus.ca for Canadians (Score:4, Informative)
Check it out. Primus also does business in the States, though it doesn't look like they have this service in particular. You should mail and ask.
Former Vonage Customer... (Score:5, Interesting)
As far as Vonage and Linux goes, Vonage will supply you with an ATA (Analog Telephone Adapter) that plugs into your existing network. Run a patch cable from your router / switch to the ATA, and a telephone cable from the ATA to a handset and you're good to go.
There is no interaction between the ATA and your desktop systems. It doesn't matter if you're running Windows / Linux / MacOS / Amiga / Whatever.
As for why I left Vonage, I was unimpressed with the call quality. I had Road Runner Business Class (I think 1.5M down, 768k up, although I might be mistaken) coming into my residence, and I would occasionally get static and dropped calls. Also, about 1 out of 10 calls the other party would not be able to hear me at all and hang up in frustration (assuming it was a crank caller or the like).
Two other problems I ran into were getting my assigned number and a "cancellation fee." When I signed up over Vonage's site, I was told that Vonage would automatically cancel my existing land-line service. However, my area code (513 - Cincinnati) was not offered, so I went with 614 (Columbus).
I found out later (when Cincinnati Bell kept billing me) that since I didn't transfer a number Vonage didn't cancel my existing service. The wording on Vonage's site did not lead me to believe that this was the case. To Vonage's credit, after I complained about this they credited my account for what I had to pay Cincinnati Bell.
I was disappointed when I eventually cancelled my Vonage account (to move back to Columbus and just use my cell phone as my only number) that Vonage charged me $41.19 as a "cancellation fee." They refunded this upon me shipping their hardware back, but I was very put off by being hit with that. I told Vonage that they should reword that as a hardware deposit or something more palatable.
I'm not angry with Vonage for my experiences, but I'm not falling out of my chair to recommend them. I want to see VoIP continue to mature and eventually become ubiquitous. Whether it's ready now or not is up for discussion.
Hope this was helpful!
- Neil Wehneman
Re:Former Vonage Customer... (Score:2, Informative)
Vonage stopped giving out Cisco ATA 186's sometime after November 2003, and now give out Motorola vt1000's instead.
Guess what? Quality is even worse with the newer Motorola hardware.
At least you got out fairly cheap. We had a few dozen lines we had to kill, because quality kept getting worse... You don't want to know the cancellation fee we had to pay
Re:Former Vonage Customer... (Score:2)
I shelled out $100 to get a Motorola vt1000 replacement, since this screwup was my own fault. I made arrangements to move back to Columbus to finish school (Go Bucks!) soon after, in mid-November.
I assumed that ATA was a standard industry abbreviation. Was I wrong in that respect, and /
Re:Former Vonage Customer... (Score:3)
I've had vonage since last April, and when I *first* got it it was great-- no problems at all. I have fiber to the
Define the problem better. (Score:5, Interesting)
If your main costs come from calling someone long distance (particularly for long stretches of time), may I suggest one of the many 1 cent (or your denomination of choice)/minute phone cards? I used them in the past with someone with whom I would have long (2+ hours) conversations, and once the initial connection fee of 30 odd cents was paid, I could pretty much talk as long as I wanted. My phone bill went down from $60-80/month to one phone card ($20) per month or less (2000 minutes is a lot of minutes).
There are also 3-4c/minute phone cards with *no connection fees* and just a weekly "mainenance" fee on the card of 35c or so.
Many of these cards are now also rechargeable through the Internet or over the phone.
My experience has been that the sound quality of these cards is pretty adequate for voice conversations. If you're using the phones to swap recordings of symphonies, then I wouldn't suggest it.
Finally, my understanding is that there are many phone plans offering *unlimited* minutes for a reasonable rate. This may do the trick for you as well.
My point is, there are a lot of solutions to your problem that don't involve tossing your phone.
Re:Define the problem better. (Score:1)
Re:Define the problem better. (Score:2)
I live in Colorado. Not sure if it's the same in other places, but here basic home phone service is nearly $40 a month. That's even before you pay for long distance, call time, anything. That's just flat monthly fees and taxes for having a dial tone.
No big deal, if you're amortizing that $40 over zillions of hours of calls. But, in my case I make very few calls. And I need a cell phone too. My call volume
Voip Gotchas (Score:5, Informative)
Other things to watch out for are 911 service, Caller ID.
Operating system is generally not an issue - VOIP means installation of a Cisco or some other such box that sits on your LAN.
Personally I chose AT&T One Rate USA instead. I didn't want to deal with the VOIP teething pains.
Re:Voip Gotchas (Score:1)
Re:Voip Gotchas - Power consumption (Score:1)
Cheers
Edgar
Re:Voip Gotchas - Power consumption (Score:2)
Are you sure you want to completely switch? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Are you sure you want to completely switch? (Score:2)
One other neat thing about cell phones: you don't even have to have a cellular plan to get emergency service. So, go ahead and throw away your POTS, get a cable modem and Vonage or whatever. And bum an old unused cell phone off someone, or pick one up really cheap from eBay. You can keep it in your car, or easily accessible
Re:Are you sure you want to completely switch? (Score:2)
This may come as a surprise, but there are plenty of places in the US where they simply don't work at all. Even here in the high-tech state of Connecticut, if you venture into Litchfield County, there's nary any coverage. Replacing land lines is not an option for everyone.
Re:Are you sure you want to completely switch? (Score:2)
Re:Are you sure you want to completely switch? (Score:2)
Re:Are you sure you want to completely switch? (Score:1)
cell phones (Score:2)
Most people who have high-speed Internet access probably also have cell phones. And whether you want it or not, you even have E911 with your cell phone.
The 911 issue is a marketing gimmick by the phone companies.
Re:cell phones (Score:2)
The only issue I've had with Vonage has been people refusing to believe where I live because I had a non-local area code, and one issue with a snarky Dominos who wouldn't deliver for the same reason.
Re:Are you sure you want to completely switch? (Score:1)
"BellSouth 911. May I help you?"
"Yeah, my house is on fire."
"I'm sorry, sir. We're in the middle of a category 5 hurricane. There's nothing we can do for you. "
For that matter, does ANYBODY think you'll REALLY achieve anything useful by calling 911 after a jet cras
Lots of VoIP info... (Score:5, Informative)
Vonage is a great company, they have area codes in a lot of places, and they also support number portability. The downside is you're stuck using their equipment (cisco ata-186). It's a nice box, doesn't require a computer, provides a plug for normal phones, and works quite well behind a Linux firewall. If that's what you're looking for, then by all means, go with Vonage. I currently have a personal line, and a business line w/ fax line through them.
Packet8 is another company where you're stuck with their equipment. I've heard of problems with their service, but I have yet to experiance anything. The price is right, and the quality is good enough, and they also support lots of area codes. I currently have a personal line through them, but I've only had it for about 4 months.
iConnectHere is another one that supports lots of area codes. The quality is ok, but I had lots of lag issues with them. The price is pretty good, but you have to supply your own equipment. The good news is it works well with most sip devices (I've used an ata-186 with it, as well as a few soft phones). You'll hav problems using softphones behind a firewall though, but the good news is, it integrates pretty well with Asterisk, the open source pbx software. I used their service for a few months, but I no longer have it, the lag issues were too much for me.
VoicePulse is my current favorite solution. Aside from SIP, they also support IAX (via their VoicePulse Connect! service). With IAX, it integrates extremely well with Asterisk even behind firewalls. They have a pretty good pricing plan, and you get all your incoming minutes for free. You can add as many phone numbers as you would like, but the only problem with their service is their limited area code availability, which will hopefully get better over time. They support multiple inbound and outbound calls simultaniously, and several codecs, so you can balance your requirments of bandwidth vs. voice quality. VoicePulse also has a service that's more like what Vonage offers, but I haven't tried that. As I'm sure you've guessed by now, I'm currently using the VoicePulse Connect! service as my PSTN gateway for my Asterisk PBX, and so far it's been working remarkably well.
I hope that helps!
VoicePulse (Score:2)
VoicePulse [voicepulse.com]
Re:Lots of VoIP info... (Score:3, Informative)
1) Has built-in firewall and NAT so you can get QoS on the cable-modem side.
2) Directly supports two telephone lines.
3) Reboots and gets on the network quickly.
The only two real drawbacks of the Motorola is that you can't run all your house phones off it without encountering ring-volume problems, and if the box is offline it only gives you silence (an error tone would have been a nice plus).
Re:Lots of VoIP info... (Score:1)
The silence is the typical behaviour of a phone that is not connected to the "co" or gatekeeper/sip redirect server. It behavaes as if it's "unplugged" from the wall socket.
j2c.
Long distance (Score:2)
I purchased a 900 mhz logitech headset for use with teamspeak [slashdot.org] cause I'm geeky like that. Later I purchased a monthly plan with Dialpad [dialpad.com] (yeah yeah, they need a linux client...) The custom viop app you install is tiny, and doesn't require a reboot so I've been able to use it pretty much everywhere with a cheapy mic/headphone combo. It won't work when I'm booted to linux on the lappy but oh well.
How
Just did this (Score:1)
The main reason why? Well, my land line calls were so few and far between (about 2-3 bucks a month) my line rental ($AUS 20/month) far outweighed it.
The funny thing is, I hardly use VOIP at all. Email and chat usage went up (but that costs me nothing) while mobile remained steady.
why bother (Score:2)
Verizon offers DSL + Unlimited Local/Long distance for $85/month.
While it't not cheap, it's also not that much more than a cable connection, and you get to keep your normal phone!
I'm in no way affiliated with verizon. I just find it amazing that people pay such high bills for no clear reason.
Re:why bother (Score:3, Interesting)
Although, I guess the real issue is if Vonage works as advertised.
Re:why bother (Score:1)
Vonage (Score:2, Informative)
four of my friends have it and it works great. they now have 911 service in most areas. This is important to check on. Some services do not let you connect to 911 or 411.
If you get a business accounts, you even get a fax line as part of the service.
You can transfer your current pstn phone number.
Voice quality is at least a good as PSTN. See QOS notes below.
They used to send cisco-186 adapters for analog phone. I believe they not send you a motorola box that acts as a DSL/cable router and have a port
But can we programmers use it? (Score:2)
I've been working on a medical project that would really like to use this capability. Things like alerting medical personnel via their cellphones, and sending them voice and/or SMS mes
Re:But can we programmers use it? (Score:2)
There was an article referenced on
Re:But can we programmers use it? (Score:2)
But we basically have to use what's available for each individual. The medical system is full of Luddites, and when dealing with MDs and RNs, you don't give them orders. You figure out what they are willing and able to deal with, and use that. Most of them can't be persuaded to learn how to use a PDA. Cel
Re:But can we programmers use it? (Score:2)
That's interesting; in my experience (limited to just 1 big university hospital) all
Re:But can we programmers use it? (Score:1)
Same Problem, Solution = Vonage (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Same Problem, Solution = Vonage (Score:2, Informative)
In my area power goes out for a few days at least once a year. Once this happens
The only thing that really works is land line phones. These are backed by batteries and gensets at the CO.
So I would still go with at least one land line.
The other option would be to use my car to keep the cell phone charged. However I do not trust the cell phone compan
Re:Same Problem, Solution = Vonage (Score:1)
UK? (Score:1)
It doesn't seem to be too well known here and I'm not sure why since we pay the most. It could be a legal thing not yet delt with by Ofcom.
Re:UK? (Score:1, Informative)
Current Vonage Customer (Score:3, Informative)
Pros:
* Cheap - especially international calls, I cannot get a better rate except with a phone card.
* Features - lots of features that I normally would not take (because they usually cost extra) are free, such as call forwarding, caller id.
* Easy, detailed online account access.
* Its cool
* Voice quality actually improved over my previous service
Cons:
* 56K dialup does not work. This can be a gotcha in unexpected ways, for example my DirectTV Tivo cannot dialup to DirectTv, which means that I could not have multiple recievers, or use their sport channels.
* Reliability of Internet connection is not as good as phone lines.
* If the power goes down, then so does my phone (have not tried using UPS yet)
* 911 service is available according to Vonage, but how will I really know until I try?
* The hardware is a bit iffy. I have the motorola unit, which I originally setup as they suggested, directly to my cable modem, with the rest of my network behind it. This was extremely unreliable, and I get much better results by putting it behind a NAT router (I had to forward some ports).
* Broadband options are cut down - I cannot use DSL because I no longer have a land line, but I do not want to use cable (because I have satellite). So, I end up paying the cable company a "tax" of sorts because I am not interested in the cable, only the internet.
Re:Current Vonage Customer (Score:4, Interesting)
Pros:
* It allowed me to convince my wife we should finally get broadband, because by also switching to Vonage, it ended up almost completely paying for itself. (It would have more than paid for itself, but we don't want cable TV.)
* The OP asked whether it creates problems with bandwidth competition between phone and modem. The answer is that the Vonage box prioritizes packets, so you don't suffer any loss of audio quality if you're using the internet while on the phone. (But of course it will slow down the internet access.)
Cons:
* You have to dial 1+area code before every number, even local ones, which is annoying.
* If you want 911 service when the power is out, you have to keep a regular phone connected (911 still works even if you don't pay for telco service), and you have to train kids, babysitters, etc. to use it. It's probably not true that they're less able to find your address if the person who dials 911 can't tell them. This feature is said to be unreliable for regular 911 access anyway, and I believe (not clear after reading the Vonage docs) Vonage has the same feature. You do have to go through an extra step to activate 911 with Vonage -- so don't forget to do that!!!
Cable Modem (Score:1)
Fax: it don't work (well) on VOIP (Score:2)
This is a major issue to me, and likely, to many.
Jonathan
VoIP in the real family world (Score:3, Interesting)
To effectively use Vonage at all, you'll have to make a big investment in multiple-handset cordless phones or a small telephone system. I chose the telephone system from Lee Phones [leephones.com] which re-sells the BBS Telecom IPS system.
The Vonage device will not properly work if you just run your entire house's loop to it. It may work for two extensions, but three is risking burning out the machine. The trendy thing today is multiple-handset cordless phones, so you plug the base-station into the device and you're all set. Since Vonage can have two lines on one device, try to get a multi-line multiple-handset system (they are EXPENSIVE) or a home telephone system.
Always keep the land line from Verizon or whomever it is for emergencies. I have seen Vonage go out-of-service even when my cable modem network is still running. A multiple-line multiple-handset cordless system or phone system makes this really easy.
There is nothing quite as annoyingas hearing the Vonage line ringing downstairs and not upstairs. This is where phone systems are key.
Kris
It works fine (Score:1)
We're using Vonage, with a cablemodem (TWC RoadRunner).
Our cost: RR:$45/month, Vonage:$27/month.
FWIW, Vonage gives us free voicemail, 500 minutes LD anywhere in the Continental US, caller ID/CallWaiting/Call forwarding/3 way calling, and $.05 per minute to the UK. In comparison, our local Telco gives us local only with NONE of the features listed above, for $32/month.
Check out Vonage here. [vonage.com]
FYI: (Score:1, Informative)
Just google it:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UT
VoIP using your wireless iBook / PowerBook? (Score:1, Interesting)
Bring your wireless notebook along to a coffee shop which has wireless Internet, connect the VoIP equipment and your phone. Will it work? Will you be able to dial home without paying long-distance charges?
If this works, I'll get the VoIP equipment and a phone everywhere I go when I travel!
911 service... (Score:2)
Piece of Cake (Score:1)
Vonage (Score:1)
Re:new search engine!!!: google.com (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh, wait a tic. He wasn't.
He wanted human-readable information about what the relative costs and reliability of VoIP was; whether he could receive incoming calls to his current number; and what some of the "gotchas" might be in switching to VoIP.
None of which were addressed by the matches to your search.
The only possible question that might have been answered is what VoIP providers support Linux. I have a feeling that since he already pointed to Vonage, he has done *some* preliminary research on Google. No doubt he wants assurances from those who have actually tried VoIP, not just companies trying to sell it, that they actually support Linux.
If the most helpful comment you have is to tell someone to use Google, then keep quiet. Unless the slashdot is something along the lines of "What is the definition of blah-blah?" or "Where is a good place to buy computers?", the person has probably googled it, found that the results weren't useful, and turned to