Working Around Bad Luck on the Resume? 698
Dodger asks: "A year ago I was laid off from my job after 2 1/2 years, shortly after the product I was working on shipped. Later that year, a company moved me 1500 miles from Texas to California, to start working on a promising project, just to have the plug pulled by the corporation that funded it five weeks later, which resulted in another layoff. Now, there's a period of job seeking followed by a five week period of employment, followed by the current job seeking period on my resume. When the companies I interview with ask about that situation I simply explain, while trying not to whine or complain. What do other Slashdot readers do to make 'bad luck' (or bad employer choices) look less bad on their resume, and sound less bad in interviews?"
Shit happens (Score:3, Interesting)
The reason you were dismissed (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:One word: (Score:5, Interesting)
What is the US obsession with gaps on your resume (Score:5, Interesting)
Here in Australia this is quite common and perfectly acceptable, also in europe it's no big deal many people over there do this.
So if I lived in the US and I say I decided I didn't want to work because I had saved enough money to live on and I wanted to travel/write the american novel/sit at home and play video games/whatever, exactly why should an employer care?
Same applies for periods of unemployment, why does a gap matter?
Explain it on the resume or leave it off (Score:1, Interesting)
Five weeks though is really short, and such a stint doesn't really contribute to your knowledge, skill, attitude or temperament. Nor would it give time for that employer to get to know you, so using them as a reference wouldn't really be optimal. You might consider just leaving it off. If during an interview you're asked what you did during your time off, you can bring it up (or not) as a short term project you worked on (still being accurate though).
And you're not alone having such experiences, or looking for work at the moment.
Good luck!!
Re:This shouldn't even be a question (Score:3, Interesting)
Especially true in the AS/400 world. My boss (for a very short while) was an accountant-prematurely-turned SVP, and was more-than-slightly intimidated by IT people. When I hired a new manager and, in quick succession, one contract cabler and two IBM CE's came in and said "Steve! Howinnahecka you doin!" the accountant started giving him some really weird looks. "You know Steve?" The cabler (who'd been brought in by the builder, not me) pointed out that he'd known not only Steve but me as well, and the accountant started to look worried. I gave him my best surprised look and said didn't all *accountants* know each other and have secret handshakes and stuff?
Poor guy. He may have been qualified to deal with the company books and stuff, but he was definitely not prepared for rambunctious IT personnel.
Keeping it on-topic, that's one of the anecdotes you generally *don't* want to share in an interview. It's often a fine line between giving a legitimate reason for leaving a company, and trash-talking them. You need to do the former, but doing the latter (or giving the appearance of doing so) is generally a sign you're not going to get the job.
Start your own company (Score:5, Interesting)
When the layoff started happening I must have gone through about 4 companies in 3 years. (Silicon valley, it was nuts here!) It even got to the point where I could "smell" when a layoff was going to occur for anyone. Sort of like how one minute all the zebra's are munchin grass, and the next minute, before the lion goes into chase mode, they all look at that one and say, "He's next to go!"
I got so sick of blurring my resume, lying, filling in the blanks, stretching out employment dates, overstating my job and depending on someone else for a paycheck that the last layoff was the last straw. I flipped my middle finger in the direction of all these guys "charging" me for doing my W-2 while they loaned themselves a mountain of company money to buy themselves a house while saying "Hey taxman, this isn't personal income, this is a "LOAN" from the company to me, haha on you"
So I started my own company. No big deal. Just go down to your city office, pay your business tax, and if you want a corporation (I went LLC) just have an agent like thecompanycompany.com fill out your paperwork with the state for about $800.
You know what you do for a living now right? Why not just offer it up to the general public with a real company. Call your old boss up and tell him you've started your own deal, and if he knows anyone looking for help. Chances are he'll hire you or pass your name around.
There was this other slashdot article a while back about going on your own. I recomend searching the archives for it.
Unemployment's high, how'd it get that way? (Score:4, Interesting)
In fact, I've actually got a copy of state unemployment form that assigns a letter code for just about every reason you can think about for letting somebody go... and my ex-employer selected "U" for "Unknown". (Chosing not to disclose the reason would have been an "N" for "No contest".) If my ex-employer's HR department can't even figure out the reason that I was let go, that's a sign that we've got a long story here.
My answer for why they can't speak to my immediate supervisor at my past job? "I have no idea where he is. From what I was told as I was leaving, it didn't seem like he was going to have the option of staying with them for much longer either. The rest of managers at the company were happy with the level of service I was providing their departments. Letting me go was not the only debatable business decision from him that his higher-ups were scratching their heads about. I've got the number for the HR exec there on the resume, he can confirm what I just told you."
Comment removed (Score:3, Interesting)
Dunno If It's That Big A Deal (Score:2, Interesting)
Why? (Score:3, Interesting)
If I hadn't been so low on savings and unemployment, I would have had a three month stint a couple of years ago (instead I took the equivalent of a minimum wage job, but still technical to a degree), and then another a couple of years ago, and in both cases I really had no control.
At worst you could say my job search and marketing skills were poor. In fact that may be true, to end the stint I had a year ago I had to go through a contract company that gave my resume the marketing touch, and ultimately I performed so well the contracting company's client went to a good deal of trouble to hire me directly (thankfully) with a significant raise after about half a year. So the beginning of my stints were unfortunate, but not my fault, and the duration of the stints reflects mostly the labor market, and worst case my job-seeking/marketing skills more than technical.
Of course, despite my good standing currently, I always fear that a shutdown will happen yet again. I'm somewhat reassured because I know exactly where to go (contracting, hate it, but at the same time their marketing skills are better than mine), and were it not for this lucky coincidence past, I would guarantee it would take several months to find a new job were I to lose my current one.
Here are some tips (Score:4, Interesting)
Be honest (about downtime in your case especially)
Don't exaggerate your achievements
Stay calm, don't bounce around in your chair
Appear interested and "aware"
Don't say "yeah" or "ok" after every sentence the interviewer says
Smile
Also, I know the IT scene is tough right now, but from the interviewer's perspective, it's hard finding good people too. We typically hire 2 to 4 IT staff each year, and finding good ones is a chore. I wish I had a dollar for every DBA interview candidate I've talked to that couldn't write a simple select statement when asked to. Bear in mind, their resume statement that they were "SQL Experts", or had x years of experience with SQL Server (yes, we're a Microsoft shop).
Reasons to Eliminate You (Score:2, Interesting)
One such criterion included people with too much job hopping. This is almost a double standard considering my last 6 jobs were less than a year each (avg. 7 months) for reasons mostly valid, like being laid off along with the other 40 people at the company. However, I decided I wanted one of those people who just works and never leaves... so much cheaper to deal with.
HOWEVER - if you get through that elimination process and make it to an interview, by all means, tell them the truth. If in fact your story is true. If it's not true, tell them that story - cuz it is fine.
Also tell them you are looking for a good, stable, long-term gig. In fact, if the resume isn't getting you in the door, put "...seeks long-term employment with great company..." type B.S. in your OBJECTIVE. Just make it clear you're not a job hopper without sounding paranoid.
Don't ask, don't tell (Score:5, Interesting)
Always be in school (Score:5, Interesting)
This also has the added benefit that it really does further your education and expand your skills.
One last point. Being in school does not imply you have to be the student. A lot of technical colleges need adjunct instructors to teach a few evening and weekend courses. Putting on your resume that you taught impresses far too many people but it works.
Re:What is the US obsession with gaps on your resu (Score:5, Interesting)
This expected work ethic is not compatible with taking extended breaks. Being out of work is one thing... being voluntarily out of work is often seen as laziness.
On the other hand, of course, such a work ethic is, generally, a common trait of all really successful people, regardless of nationality or where they live. I guess in America, most businesses want to hire people who have the drive to be successful in life. I just wish they would accept that sometimes, success oriented people also want to pause and smell the rose.
Larry
Re:What is the US obsession with gaps on your resu (Score:5, Interesting)
Very simple reason. During that "gap" you might have had a job and make a complete pig's breakfast out of it. By accounting for all your time, your prospective employer has a chance to track down all your past employers and find out if you screwed up in a major way. If you have gaps all over the place, you may have just included those jobs where you didn't screw up, and left out the ones where you bankrupted the company by doing something monumentally stupid. Or you might have been in jail, rehab, or something equally unappealing to a prospective employer. So if you do choose to bum around Europe for a year, be damn sure to keep hotel and travel receipts!
Re:What is the US obsession with gaps on your resu (Score:3, Interesting)
Volitility (Score:3, Interesting)
Now of course, your probally jinx-ing the deal and it will all go down the tubes in 6 months.
Re:Be honest, tell the truth (Score:1, Interesting)
> It is to present yourself as best you can while being as honest as you can.
Spoken like someone with a lot of experience or who hasn't been unemployed for a year. Meanwhile, the rest of us are trying as hard as we can to get the jobs that will give us the experience that will lead to a better future.
Just the other day my boss, who has an associates degree, made a job posting for a new position. He put, "bachelor's degree required". I thought that was odd and politely asked why he felt a bachelor's degree was required to be a good programmer. His only response was basically, "Because I can, thanks to the economy". Must have been nice to graduate during the nineties...
(PS, I have a bachelor's degree in *gasp* MIS, but I thought it was odd for him to require something he doesn't have, even though he considers himself a skilled programmer. Please, no MIS flames - I've heard them all, and I have a good job.)
Re:What is the US obsession with gaps on your resu (Score:3, Interesting)
Work now for tomorrow you may die! To hell with actually having a life! Ok, I'm a little bitter after working my ass off to only get laid-off.
No one right answer (Score:2, Interesting)
There's no one right answer to this, because it (like every other aspect of hiring/interviewing) varies with who you're talking to. All of the advice in these comments is valid for someone, and invalid for others. Still, my advice:
Just tell the truth (Score:3, Interesting)
[1] Nitpickers: The remaining 3 months where spent trying to actually find a job.
Re:If anyone knew (Score:5, Interesting)
Admiting that you are a failure is like admitting that they are a failure. You just go to work everyday with a smile and do things so-so... Eventually the project will fail, but you stayed late many days and you always were there to help, you just failed because you are incompetent, but they won't admit it.
I've always been excellent on my jobs and I always lost my job when I finished. Now I always EXTEND... my job by delivering not so good stuff and therefore they always need me to fix it. Also I always orgaqnize meetings to resolve issues and force people to stay in meetings even if they don't need to. I say the opposite of course, but I always ask them to participate and let them know *how important they are* to define things. The result is always poor, documents are reviewed endlessly and my job is so secure now...
Sorry guys, that's just the truth, I have a family to feed and property to buy. If being proficient and fast were profitable, that would be where I would like to be, but now I prefer the easy life of having a job for life, even if that means I have to do overtime every single day of my fuckedup life.
Doing overtime is a sign that the company is not doing the right thing. Who am I to change that? If I could sell what I do and not my time, things would be different. I can do in 15 minutes what for others takes months if not their whole lifes, but they pay me by the hour. All software engineers are replaceable, go figure where did they learn that.
Tell The Truth (Score:3, Interesting)
There have been enough layoffs in this industry over the last twenty years, that people understand that, and it's nothing to hide.
If you don't tell the truth, and they find that out before you're higher, you will NOT get the job.
lie (Score:0, Interesting)
This was used to fill in gaps of unemployment due to the dot com burst. Worked great, we all got jobs, and no one figured it out. Hence, my anonymous posting.
Honesty, sincerity, and trust (Score:5, Interesting)
I was asked in a whirl-wind style interview, literally "So I don't exactly understand why we are interviewing you. Your degree doesn't match the job openings". I then sincerely explained that, while my background is a dual degree in Chemistry/Chemical engineering, I've done imaging science the entire period of my employment. Threw in a few stories about projects I'd worked on, (You do have your "Problem, Action, Quantified Results" stories in your head, don't you???) and he accepted it.
Another asked about the layoffs and specifically why I was targetd. You *know* they are going to want to ask that question- be prepared to handle it. Don't whine. Don't Whine. DON"T WHINE! Remember that. Explain it as "We were told that seniority would count significantly during the layoff process. As I had just entered the group a year (or your case, 5 weeks) ago, when they pulled the project funding I was the newest, hence the least 'points' awarded during the deselection criteria"
Don't sound bitter- we all know you will be from the stories, and hearing 'laid off' doesn't have the stigma it once does. But dont' hide it in BS. If you present even a slightest bit, or get caught in a lie, you can kiss it goodbye. I've interviewed many a person and that is the one thing I listen for... I hear BS, you can use the resume to whipe it off the shoe.
random suggestions (Score:5, Interesting)
If you went back to work for just a short while, I'd feel free to just not mention that job, and just lump that in with the period before and after, when you were "consulting". You could mention it as an example of "projects" you did while you were otherwise-out-of-work, to demonstrate that you weren't just sitting on your ass, but being a self-motivated pro-active kinda guy.
Just a random bit of advice for anyone who (like me) was singled out to be gotten rid of (for personal illegal-in-several-states reasons, for what it's worth): find a way to "launder" your resume without actually lying (which would be just plain stucking fupid). For example, go back to school, and pick up another degree or something. (If you have no income, financial aid is often available.) Sign up for the Peace Corps or something. Then put that on a chronological resume and employers may just assume you did it on purpose.
Re:Lie! -- If background is wrong in report (Score:1, Interesting)
Should I make my credit score look worse? The company I worked at around the 13 month job is honest, so they will show report was wrong. On the other hand the other company had no problem with using pirated software from small software companies and had me pretend illegal copies were legal. At first I thought it was a temporary measure and they were going to fix it as soon as the company grow a little larger. I made several hints to "get all of the features for the software", when MS had a pirated software campaign on the radio. They worked fast to fix the MS piracy, but not the other small software company piracy. I would like to think that they fixed it with the other company, but honestly don't think they did.
I was glad to leave and know if I truely say why I left it will look bad. In addition, I have seen signs on the web that many companies approve of piracy, especially if the software company doesn't have a legal team. How do you explain or know ahead of time which companies have really high ethics? Is switching to government level better with ethics/only break ethics when vital national/international interest or is it dependent on manager?
Re:One word: (Score:2, Interesting)
Okay maybe that wasn't the best reason to reject a resume but I have some sympathy with your management team.
I've been in positions as a hiring manager a couple of times now and when I started I was full of zeal and gave every resume I received its due attention. Now I realise when I advertise for a position I'm going to get on the order of hundreds of applications per position, I'm going to conduct maybe twenty or thirty interviews and my boss is going to be on my back the whole time.
I try and do my best to filter them on select criteria but if I have to choose between someone who spent the last year stacking shelves at Walmart and someone who spent the last year in an IT job... I know who's going to get the benefit of the doubt.
Applying for a job is a competition. While to you it feels like a personal affront if you don't get an interview (even though you can 'do' the job), to the business its about getting the best person for the job.
What''s the problem? (Score:3, Interesting)
2003 Company 2
1999-2002 Company 1
During interview, you can explain that your projects were terminated. Or whatever. On the resume you can avoid looking suspicious by using the above method.
Don't put "BTW I WASN'T FIRED FOR BEING A BAD GUY" on your resume...
Explain it! (Score:3, Interesting)
I've had the same question asked of me in the past. Turns out that I had moved from a one-year contract to a permanent job, which I left when I moved to a foreign country, where I stayed for two years, etc. etc.
What they're looking for is flightiness, or chronic long-term-unemployability. If you have good reasons for your shorter stints (as you do), then they'll understand that that's how the market goes.
Re:Why? (Score:3, Interesting)
1) Resume is referred to the hiring manager by someone who knows you along with some message that causes you to be taken seriously.
2) It is routed through an HR department, a recruiter, a headhunter, etc...
In the first case, you can expect to bypass all the customary filters and have an opportunity for someone to read between the lines and really analyze you.
In the second case, the hiring manager is facing a pile of hundreds of resumes that is growing by hundreds per week (even in a time of relatively full employment). A typical resume gets between 15 and 30 seconds. If it doesn't get tossed at that point, then it stays around for a re-read. The re-read is less prone to snap judgment. I haven't been doing any hiring since the bust, but I suspect that this has gotten worse.
It generally takes 6 months for new employees to make themselves valuable. A mistake in hiring generally takes 18 months to correct. My average employee sticks around for 5-10 years. The last thing I would want to do is hire someone who either routinely job-hops or had a series of jobs where he didn't work out.
Put yourself in the position of the person with the resume pile. If there is something that will raise a "this person is a flake" flag, address it in the same breath as the item. Adding a note like "project cancelled," "company closed," "contract," or "temporary" can resolve that question before it gets you thrown into the reject pile.
In some cases, you may have the luxury of knowing which path a resume is going to follow. I generally suggest having 2 resumes.
One needs to be extremely concise and begin with a goal that makes it clear that you are someone who wants to contribute. (Notice I said contribute, not use the job as a stepping stone to get somewhere else)
The second one is more elaborate. That is for cases where you have somehow gotten the attention of a human being.
If you get a call as a result of the first resume, you may want to offer the manager the more detailed resume.
Also, think twice before listing the alphabet soup as the job function or skills. If you must include it, put it in a section that is the "list of..." so it will survuve stupid filters. In good jobs, the fact that you can think is MUCH more important.
It's not that you got laid off (Score:4, Interesting)
Another good thing to have is a real estate license. It can cover any gaps in your resumes by saying, "I worked a project for a commercial customer." They can't press you for details because that's confidential and they can't prove or disprove it. If they do want details you can be vague and say, "Their financing fell through." Which happens all the time. Best have a genuine real estate license, though. That can be expensive to get and costs money to maintain. But I find it very liberating to always have a fall back.
tell them the truth, (Score:3, Interesting)
had a similar experience (Score:3, Interesting)
My approach is two pronged:
1) In the short run I keep the company on my resume and use the letter of recommendation to ward off any suspicion that I job hop.
2) In the long run I plan to remove the job from the resume as I start to list start and end times in years rather than month/year.
Just went through this myself... (Score:2, Interesting)
A company I just interviewed with (in case the current one goes under) asked about that 1 year period and were satisfied with my responses (they made me an offer), but I don't think it will be an issue unless there is a preponderance of these "3 months on the job" additions to your resume. Not listing them could in fact be better than doing so.
Resumes don't get you jobs... (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Not sleazy, just stupid (Score:2, Interesting)
Can't say my company always had work in the house, though. There was a dry spell in there where I took an FT job for a spell. That's on my resume too, right where it belongs. But there are no lies and no gaps in my resume.
Don't sweat it. (Score:4, Interesting)
Really this will only matter in cases where HR has such a mountain of resumes they're screening by any criteria they can think of (e.g. "This guy drinks Dr. Pepper and our machines only have Coke.") In this case your chances of getting to the all important interview are nearly nil anyway.
Your best bet is to network -- talk to friends and friend of friends, about places that might be considering hiring in the future.
You'd be surprised how often the truth works (Score:3, Interesting)
Way back in the early 80's, when I was a naive little dork I let a headhunter talk me into leaving a pretty good job at Motorola for a smaller company that was growing by leaps and bounds. One thing lead to another, and three months and nine days later I was laid off, the first of ten engineers let go because the company had grown too quickly.
So I went job hunting, and it was pretty unpleasant, but eventually I found myself across the table from a guy who was hiring for a small project, and I explained that I'd been laid off. I told him I thought I'd done a great job, worked hard and helped the team, but they'd still gotten rid of me. (They went on to lay off nine more of the twelve new hires. Oops.)
It turned out he'd had the same thing done to him, and he totally sympathized with me. He saw one resume for a mechanical engineer, half a dozen for electrical engineers and several dozen for software engineers -- the position I applied for. I got the job.
So maybe it was a blessing in disguise -- I dunno -- I never want to get laid off like that again. But that job was probably the best project I worked on, because we were given a clear goal, given money to do it, and we were left alone. We produced a working eletromechanical system in 7 1/2 months, complete with high voltage system, robotic controllers and control software running on an IBM PC and an onboard 6809 processor. Sweet.
So don't sweat it -- you worked hard, you did a good job, then someone else pulled the plug. That's not your fault. Just don't sound too bitter when you tell the story -- be a little detached. Good luck.
What I have done... (Score:3, Interesting)
If you studied anything in the meantime, I would suggest that you say that you were increasing your job skills, and state what skills you were trying to increase.
Above all, be confident and focused. One thing that helps is to use the male "I'm interested and listening" pose - head forward, pointed at the person speaking, making eye contact. It helps if you enter the interview with the attitude that the interviewer is partnered with you in the effort to get you hired - that way you'll ask the right questions like "What do I need to show you so that you will know that I am the right candidate for the job" and "Here is how my previous experience and knowledge applies to the position you will be hiring me for".
If you find that there is no way that you can fulfill the job, ask for the interviewer's card if you know of someone who could fill it. This will give you good will with the company, and with the person you recommend. It will also give you at least one inside contact, and allow the interviewer to know that you are professional and you won't attempt to dent their car in the parking lot. (Don't laugh - I've worked next to some people who carried loaded weapons and threatened to kill their co-workers).
Cover letter... (Score:3, Interesting)
Write free software (Score:3, Interesting)
...just stupid (Score:5, Interesting)
In otherwords, I got lucky. Of course it didn't help that I was applying for a terrorist targeted industry (doh!), but if they can do it, so can your potential employer. Employ the parents tactics with due caution, if at all.
Re:My Resume Looks Much Worse -- How I Deal (Score:3, Interesting)
Every full-time employment I have ever had ended when the company, for all intents and purposes, went under. It has happened on average after about three months. This happened four times in 2.5 years. My longest employment was eight months, but considering that company started out as #33 on the Fortune 500 list, it stands to reason it took a little longer for them to fall. The next year they still made the list -- in the 490s. They were #1 in the list of "biggest losers." But at least that company had a severance package -- more than I could say for any of the rest.
But for the original question:
Stay optimistic and cheerful. Explain the situation. My interviewers all noted that, wow, you've had a lot of different jobs (I also had a couple of dozen freelance jobs between the fulltime employments -- so my resume was literally 20-odd jobs in three years). But my explanation was always met with sympathy. Sympathy goes a long way in getting a job.
But even more important is coming across with the attitude, "Well, I've had some bad luck before, but that won't get me down. I've been keeping up with X and Y technologies in personal projects, so that I'll be ready for a job like this, where I hope to settle down and stay for a long time."
Of course, that said.... I got tired of the whole game myself and started my own business. I figured I'd seen it done wrong enough that I knew how to do it right. I was correct.
I actually did this once... (Score:3, Interesting)
I was interviewing with a prospective employer who looked this over and said, "Looks like you've had a run of bad luck."
"You could look at that way," I said. "But I think it might have been how I was choosing my employers." I explained to him how I was very good on some outmoded equipment, and maybe the reason I was picking so many losers was because I was looking for people who were using equipment that might suggest they didn't know what they were doing. (I had already learned that he did not use that equipment.)
Then I told him why I thought the equipment he was using was better (big difference: it had these things called "hard drives"), why I thought that was the future of the industry, and why I wanted to learn how to use it. Then I asked him some straightforward questions about his business, which he was able to answer quite confidently.
I explained that I was willing to work at trainee's wages on this better equipment even though I had several years of experience (if I had the chance to work at a well-run business). He was so complimented by my willingness to work for him (once I had explained that I was looking for a better employer) that he offered me 12 percent more than I asked for. A few years later I moved out west. A few years after that the "project ended" company moved to the same city. They offered me a great job, and I worked with them for a few years. Then they went under, and I started my own business by picking up a few of their customers and made a million bucks.
Anybody who tells you to lie is a fool. State the truth in the most positive light you can put it and hope for the best.
You don't want to work for anyone who would hold your situation against you, anyway.
Re:Why? (Score:1, Interesting)
I dont know what industry you are in... but in IT (sw eng) its not the case mostly. I am in this current job for 7 months and we developed a product and did a customer release in a year. Admit, I did the general stuff like drivers which is not that much different form my prev job, but still, its an important part of the product.
Also somewhere I read that on an average IT employees switch job once every 18 months.
Re:Always be in school (Score:1, Interesting)
Along the same lines, if you're looking for things that impress people far more than they really should, getting a job at NASA is an excellent idea.
I was a Unix system administrator at a NASA site for a few years, about 7 years ago, and I still get comments like "Oh, I see you worked at NASA." and "Wow... what was it like to work at NASA?". In truth, it wasn't all that much different from any other job (and it certainly paid less), but that doesn't matter. If I say "Oh, it wasn't a big deal", I come off as a polite, self-effacing guy who might really be talented but doesn't want to brag about it. If I highlight some of the cool things about the job and the people I worked with (and I don't have to lie because there were some cool things), then it validates their perception that I was involved with a really cool organization and (by extension) am myself really cool. ;-)
From an employers perspective (Score:5, Interesting)
These things all promote your experience and talk a lot more about someone than what an employer can reasonably gather from the employment history.
Re:If anyone knew (Score:5, Interesting)
But employers don't like resume gaps. They will want to know what you were doing in that time. Working "short-term temporary projects" sounds much better than "uuhhh... umm... looking for a job?".
Just my two cents. See you later, Space Cowboys!
Re:If anyone knew (Score:2, Interesting)
FWIW, this is exactly what I was told in a recent "transition" session. We were given the sessions as part of a layoff package. One person asked what to do about short-time gigs. The presenter said that, in any job, you are effectively on probation for thirty to ninety days. If you leave (or get dropped) within that period,it "doesn't count as a job. As I said -- FWIW.
Re:Not sleazy, just stupid (Score:0, Interesting)
In sessions provided at the time of a layoff, someone asked why they make you fill out an app listing previous positions when you've already provided a resume. The correct answer turned out to be -- you put your signature on the app; that makes it a legal doc. If they decide, even years down the road, to push you out, they'll go back and check every detail on the app. Generally they can find an error -- any error. Then they can fire you for cause for lying on the app. Believe it -- I saw it done to someone with five years on the job, back in the 70s. He made the mistake of passing out a political statement about Vietnam, which did not violate any specific term of his employment contract. But it pissed someone off, so they went back to his app and found a flaw.
The Bitch That is Unemployment (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:What is the US obsession with gaps on your resu (Score:1, Interesting)
You know I ended up in rehab and it was probably the best thing I could've done. I am at a loss myself as to how to explain why I lost my last job. The situation is not so cut and dry as to assume I am a deadbeat. I was young and made poor decisions and took measures necessary to overcome my problems. But for some reason employers (specifically medium-large size) don't want to take the time/effort to consider the humanity of things. Even though I can show documentation of my recovery process. How should I deal with this situation?
I totally kicked ass at my job for the first 2.5 years at my last fulltime job. I had quite a plateful of work, and I realized something. My recreational drug use (pot or alcohol) started growing out of control because of work related stress. I started slipping a little, and I felt incredibily guilty about it which helped make matters worse. I was in constant communication with my boss about working out a way to help reduce stress by maybe helping share responsibilities with others in the group, etc. But in the end nothing lasting happened and I crashed and burned. Literally, I was fired. As I mentioned above, I've gone through treatment/therapist and have documentation for it. I resigned myself to consulting jobs, of which I've done many and have good references. But a good amount of my experience is from my last fulltime job. So I lose if an employer wants to contact my boss from my last job.
Re:If anyone knew (Score:5, Interesting)
The sole purpose of a resume is to get you an interview. You should not lie on it about anyting, but simply putting the year in which you worked at a job is not lying--its shorthand.
Re:Why? (Score:1, Interesting)
Sounds like you work for a nice stable company. I've had 4 jobs in the past 4 years, believe me - I would have preferred to have been at one company, but due to unstable startups, the telecom implosion, contract work, etc., it's been hard to even stay employed.
I've landed almost all of my jobs through networking, but I have certainly gone on interviews with companies that have received my resume "cold".
When folks give me a difficult time over "job-hopping" I calmly go through the explanations for each instance. My real desire, however, is to reach over the cheap veneer of their particle board desk and throttle them. Unfortunately, that wouldn't go over very well.
I hope you can admit that you have to take the business cycle into account when looking at someone's job history.
Weird experience with a Headhunter (Score:2, Interesting)
The only terrible thing the company did to me was reneged on their promise in paying for my IT Training and education. The CFO has final say in all these types of spendings so he went back on his word and HR wouldn't do anything about it. Some of the other management lifers who have been in the company 25+ years so what was happening to me and strongly suggested that I hire an attorney to deal with this joker. I was into the lawsuit trend so I went off and did the training on my own. I even went as far as going for my silly MS certs. I was accused of studying on the job which kinda was the last straw for me. Once I got all my idiotic certs, I decided to start looking for another job. Fast forward three years. The company was bought out by another huge company and at the end the company was shutdown for not making enough money. I was glad to get out of there when I had the chance.
Re:Quick and Dirty (Score:2, Interesting)
Does this make sense to you? It sure doesn't to me.
Re:Interview can not cover for your resume (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Quick and Dirty (Score:3, Interesting)
When critiqueing my argument and my point, please make sure to refer to the right argument and the right point. When I was talking about the 5.8% unployment rate (4.9% by your calculation), my point was not that this was (not) a serious unemployment rate, but rather that this rate was comparable to the national rate. Hence my conclusion that H1B workers did not make the computer and mathematical sector stand out unemployment-wise.
Fourth, these guys are not immigrants as you suggest
You are correct. I should have used the correct term ("non-immigrants").
According to the Immigration Bureau again, these guys in computer-related occupations in FY 2002 made a median income of $60,000. According to your BLS source, the mean annual wage for this sector in general was $61,630 in 2002. So, they're here becuase the IT industry can get them cheaper than citizens. Even for those of us *with* jobs, that pressure depresses our wage. So, try to have a handle on the basic facts when you're making a point.
You are conveniently forgetting that the cost of getting and keeping H1B workers runs in the many thousands of dollars (H1B fees for starters, and most if not all companies will start green card procedures as well. And that's just the fees to pay to the government, let's not even mention the lawyer-fees), so the cost to the company is likely at least the same, but probably higher. Your conclusion that these non-immigrants are here because they are cheaper therefore does not follow from the facts you presented. "handle on the basic facts" indeed...
I should have your job
Well, you could start with *a* job...