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It's funny.  Laugh. Technology

Worst Explanation From Tech Support? 1907

Disgruntled-with-Tech-Support asks: "Let's face it: At some point or another, we've had to deal with some form of tech support. Quite often, it's a hit-or-miss experience depending on the level of support required. Occasionally, strange, bizarre, or nonsensical explanations result from the problems reported, such as this one: I had just had DSL installed, only to find it much slower than the 56K line I was looking to get rid of. On calling the provider, I was told (by someone who likely reading off cue cards) to visit one of their internal websites for measuring bandwidth. While there, I observed that they had both bytes per second and bits per second listed, and that the number of bytes/sec != bits/sec * 8, rather a factor around 13 or 14. I pointed this out as a possible problem, and the guy's reasoning: 'Uh, it looks like the bytes are getting through to you ok, but the bits are getting stuck someplace.' What was your worst explanation from tech support?"
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Worst Explanation From Tech Support?

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  • by NeoSkandranon ( 515696 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @11:37PM (#9211389)
    As a former tech i've had to make up some pretty lame ones for people who were too dim or uninterested enough to comprehend the real explanation.
  • by briandk ( 635064 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @11:45PM (#9211458)
    Mine was sometimes the DFU drive or line was down...but that it would be back up soon, it always worked, I tried the I-d-10-t but someone caught it..that was fun explaining that to my boss.
  • by T.Hobbes ( 101603 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @11:48PM (#9211488)
    At least, not in the place I work. The problem is lack of training, but the people I work with have a full knowledge of all materials in which they were trained. Admittidly, the level of training is subpar; but the workers are only expected - and allowed - to perform a limited number of fixes. Lack of knowledge about bits vs. bytes is embarassing, but knowledge of the 8:1 ratio is not required for the work that is performed.

    At issue is the level of training provided.

    All this is not to say that don't find the horror stories, from a tech's and customer's point of view, funny. Speaking for myself, half the people I speak to assume I can see their monitor and the other half think you can't open Outlook Express without connecting to the internet, despite the big 'work offline' button in front of them...

  • Whatever you do (Score:3, Insightful)

    by LittleLebowskiUrbanA ( 619114 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @11:48PM (#9211492) Homepage Journal
    Don't mention 3rd party software. No matter what, it's ALWAYSthe 3rd party's software vendor's fault.
  • by MikeDawg ( 721537 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @11:51PM (#9211513) Homepage Journal
    I completely agree with this. I've worked tech support, and even POS (point-of-sale) support before. Often times, if some layman asks you what you did to fix the problem, I give them a non-sensical (to the layman) answer, just so they stop bothering me. I have also developed new words for cashiers, as taught to me from other techs to get people to comply to what you're doing.

    For instance, you don't say: "We are going to reset/restart your unix server" you say: "We are going to bump your server" You don't say: "A backhoe dug up your local T-1 line, and now you're on dialup, credit authorizations are going to take longer" You say: "Please don't call me, call the credit authorization company" There are so many more, but I just can't think of any handy right now.

    Key is, you have to dumb things down a bit so the average lay person doesn't take 45 minutes chatting about what could be the technicial difficulty.
  • by thedillybar ( 677116 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @11:51PM (#9211514)
    Everything else has 'advanced user' setup. Why can't we have advanced tech support?

    "If you are an advanced user, i.e. you know more than our flunkie tech support people, please press 6. We will connect you to an intelligent person on this side of the ocean. Please hold."

    I hate trying to boot a machine (or convincing the guy on the other end that I'm trying to boot a machine) 10 different times when I know the hard-drive has failed.
    It's bad. It's under warranty. Come replace it.

  • Re:Oh that's easy. (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Avenger546 ( 69810 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @11:52PM (#9211529)
    their classic first question "do you have a firewall?" Answer "yes," and that IMMEDIATELY becomes the problem

    The best part is that if you say "no" then *that* can be the problem... "if you don't run a firewall, you leave your computer more open to attacks"

    Fun stuff. "Damned if you do..."

  • Re:tech no-support (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Ffakr ( 468921 ) on Thursday May 20, 2004 @11:58PM (#9211589) Homepage
    Having worked on a tech support line, and managed tech support people, I can tell you that you should be really damn happy when your tech admits they don't know something. It's a lot easier for a newb to give an answer they *think* is correct than to admit they don't know everything off the top of their heads.
    Honestly, what would you prefer?.. someone saying, I'm not sure, let me find out for sure.. or someone making shit up that can get you into more trouble?
  • by IncohereD ( 513627 ) <mmacleod@ieeeEULER.org minus math_god> on Friday May 21, 2004 @12:01AM (#9211622) Homepage
    My idiot roommate tried splitting the line to the modem without telling anybody first, then when we hooked it back up it wouldn't hold a connection for more than about 3 minutes.

    When we got the Rogers guy to come he couldn't figure out why it was hooked to that outlet, and couldn't even figure out how the cable got to that point in the wall (it had been that way since I moved in about 3 years before). He put in a new wire, closer to where it came in the house, and we were fine from then on.
  • by John Starks ( 763249 ) on Friday May 21, 2004 @12:08AM (#9211674)
    I haven't worked tech support, but I've worked at companies that provide tech support. And let me tell you, the worst user is the "advanced" user. Sure, the user may think you know what he's talking about, but in the end it just makes him arrogant and unwilling to listen. Heck, I've been that guy, only to feel completely sheepish when I realized my mistake.

    Yes, you know the hard drive has failed. But for each user like you, there are ten users that THINK the hard drive has failed, when it really turned out to be something else. It's much cheaper to make everyone go through basic troubleshooting than to replace everyone's hard drives.
  • by bogie ( 31020 ) on Friday May 21, 2004 @12:09AM (#9211679) Journal
    "Mechanics charge upwards of $50 just to take a look at your car to see what's wrong, and this has been standard industry practice for a long period of time."

    No they don't. Any Mechanic I've even seen will look at a car for Free and try to tell you what's wrong. If its something which requires hours of diagnosing then yes they will usually charge a fee but its by no means automatic. I've been taking cars to dealers and private mechanics for estimates and second estimateas for years and I've only been charged a few times.

    If tech support worked that way they would at least listen to your problem for Free and notify you if a quick fix is available. I'm not against charging for tech support if a problem involved lots of trouble shooting and hand holding on the Software makers part, but they should be making a determination if that's really necessary before they start charging you money or taking your credit card number. Asking for the card up front is just a scare tatic to try to get consumers to not call in. Personally I don't care for the pratice.
  • by cujo_1111 ( 627504 ) on Friday May 21, 2004 @12:11AM (#9211698) Homepage Journal
    You are correct that there is 8 bits to a byte, but the parent is correct in saying that it should have been 'bits/sec = bytes/sec * 8'

    Think about it...
  • Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Friday May 21, 2004 @12:12AM (#9211718)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • by caspper69 ( 548511 ) on Friday May 21, 2004 @12:13AM (#9211727)
    And yet you always have the option of hitting the back button in your browser instead of submit.

    If only this choice was made more often....
  • by Brandybuck ( 704397 ) on Friday May 21, 2004 @12:14AM (#9211733) Homepage Journal
    I would have asked for the one port hub just to see what they would have sold you...
  • Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Friday May 21, 2004 @12:14AM (#9211735)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • by dgatwood ( 11270 ) on Friday May 21, 2004 @12:26AM (#9211819) Homepage Journal
    Actually, LCDs don't have scan rates in the traditional sense. They act as basically one big memory chip, retaining the image until a new piece of data is pushed into a given pixel. That's why you can shoot the front of an LCD panel with a camcorder and get no flicker.

    And I don't know about your flat panel, but all of my analog flat panels support several refresh rates, including 60 and... 72, if memory serves, and occasionally higher, depending on resolution. That has nothing to do with the way the image is displayed, and is strictly a factor of what clock speeds the VGA decoder hardware happens to support at a given resolution. However, you still have to feed it a sync rate that the decoder can handle.

    If you really don't want to care about refresh, you'd better be using a digital flat panel (DVI or ADC-digital).

  • Re:CompUSA (Score:0, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 21, 2004 @12:39AM (#9211887)
    CompUSA Realy screwed me over a few times too. The first time was when I bought a Ti 4600 Card, I took it home only to find out that it was faulty. I took it right back (Same day I might add) with the repset and tried to exchange it. The cahser and the one manager gave a hard time about how the card wasn't faulty and it was my own dam fault. After about 125 minutes of arguing a second manger, came over to address the problem. She said it sounded like the card was faulty, and proably was as they had 3 other people come in throught out the week with simlir proablems with the card. I ended up with an excange and this one works fine, but I still can't get over the hassle they put me through.

    The most resent encounter occured during Crismass, when my mother thought it would be a good idea to buy me some compute hardwear. She ended up buying an AMD 64 FX @ +3000, a K8T Mother board, and 2GB DDR2 ram. Total cost of $3100. I wake up crismass morning to find all these wounderful gifes under the tree (I still think my mother spent WAY to much, even after all I did for her this year it was still TOO MUCH!). I pull out the new ATI 9800 card out of my main computer, and plug it and everything into the MB. Turn it on and nothing hapens. I check the PSU works perfictly, I check the powerswich no problem. I then check the post LED's... there all lite wich means the BIOS Never gave the CPU control. My conclusion the CPU if faulty. So I wate untill compUSA opens again and I try to take it back. The guy at Tech desk says it's proably the MB, Wich I know it's not. After arguing with him for 20 minutes or so I give up and let him exchange the MB. with a promise that once this dosen't work I'll be back.

    I try it and it dosen't work, so I take it all back again. This time the Guy at the Tech desk wount take it back, and tells me to go to costmer service where they try and tell me that I'm to blame and they wount take and of it back. After arguing for litteraly and hour and a half, I gave up an told him I was going to call CompUSA main head quirters. He finaly says fine I'll take it in back and try the CPU on another MB. He takes the CPU off the MB. and gose in back I sit there at the Costmer Sirveice desk wating when he finaly comes back and tells me that the pins are bent on CPU and he will not take it back. After some very loud shouting at him he threteans to call the COPs if I don't leave imditly. So as I'm leaving in the one sales girl there gives me a note with a number and name. She told me it was for the distric manger of this CompUSA and to call.

    To finish up this story I call him he basicly says theres nothing he can do, and he sorry for any inconvinec. The moral of this stroy don't go to CompUSA Unless you fell like being Roaly @$$ #^@#.
  • Re:No wonder... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by JensLH ( 31954 ) on Friday May 21, 2004 @12:41AM (#9211900) Homepage
    It is however still true that bytes/sec != bits/sec * 8 :-)

    *runs for cover*
  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 21, 2004 @12:52AM (#9211948)
    Now, why does that sound familar to this:

    A novice was trying to fix a broken Lisp machine by turning the power off and on.

    Knight, seeing what the student was doing, spoke sternly: "You cannot fix a machine by just power-cycling it with no understanding of what is going wrong."

    Knight turned the machine off and on.

    The machine worked.
  • Re:Oh that's easy. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by strider_starslayer ( 730294 ) on Friday May 21, 2004 @12:54AM (#9211960)
    As someone who has worked in tech support, I have to speak up and say that when I was doing it; 90% of problems, were user problems, and not problems on our side.

    And the whole point of troubleshooting is to isolte points to failure- REset the modem, reset your computer, disconnect the router, still not working, next step, try a ping to the internet, try a ping to the server, try a ping to yourself, reset the modem again (just in case you ignored the tech the first time he sugested it, reset the computer again.

    That above scenario will solve somewhere around 70% of all network problems, and if you take out the request to reset the modem and computer the second time the rate drops sharply, because peopel have a tendancy to assume that tech support people have no idea what there doing and can safely be ignored. We've been given a script to follow that says to do exactly that, and we get in trouble if we don't do that scenario first; so sit tight, let us establish that it is not your firewall, your computer, or your modem, and then we can get to some real tech support- or hell, do it yourself, first, before you call in, and be sure to say that you did it yourself, first, how you did it when you get connected and save time.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 21, 2004 @12:58AM (#9211984)
    Were you really abusive like that? If so why is this marked as funny, you're just so idiot who thinks they are cool.
  • by Nate Eldredge ( 133418 ) on Friday May 21, 2004 @12:59AM (#9211991)
    And what will a 2 port hub do for you that a wire won't?
  • by Stinky Cheese Man ( 548499 ) on Friday May 21, 2004 @01:18AM (#9212135)
    > Of course, the tech guy is still a moron...

    Not necessarily. He may have just assumed the caller was a moron and was either having some fun or trying to get rid of him ASAP.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 21, 2004 @01:36AM (#9212248)
    I always give the correct answer to any question given. Yes, it takes longer, and yes, you pretty much have to explain everything involved, at a really basic level.

    Why do I do this?

    Because educated users make less work for me than ignorant ones. This is a long term strategy, and I am telling you now that it pays off. Of course, if you are a temp or something, don't bother. Just fix and go.

    Even then though, it's kind of fun teaching people who are about as technical as celery about the history of peripheral connectivity, and then getting the impression that they actually picked up something that would be useful to them in the future.
  • Re:You said it... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 21, 2004 @02:12AM (#9212426)
    Maybe he accidentally pressed 'u' instead of 'i', they are right next to each other. (On Big American Keyboard.)
  • by SuperBanana ( 662181 ) on Friday May 21, 2004 @02:14AM (#9212437)
    A byte is usually 8 bits but it has also been defined as 6, 7, 9 or even odder combinations. It all depends on the system architecture.

    In the 1960's, yes. Now, no, not really- and your linking to a dictionary doesn't prove it. That dictionary definition is decades old.

    For over almost 30 years, a byte is 8 bits, a nibble (no, I'm not making that up) is four. A word contains four nibbles or two bytes. Insisting otherwise is anal retentive at best.

  • by MattyCobb ( 695086 ) on Friday May 21, 2004 @02:26AM (#9212490)
    as someone who had the unfortunate job of working tech support for a DSL ISP I can tell you first hand that most of the stupidity comes from the customer NOT the tech. and usually, if we give you a BS answer it is because we think you are a moron who we just want you off our phone/away from us and will probably belive whatever we say. its really not a personal thing. its after about the 1000th "my modem don't work." "sir, is it plugged in?" or something similar conversion you start to hate all of humanity who would dare ask your help.
  • by DunbarTheInept ( 764 ) on Friday May 21, 2004 @02:36AM (#9212534) Homepage
    The difference is that the mechanic that's charging you to look at your car isn't the company that made your car. I see a large difference in ethics between these two practices:
    1- Charge someone money to diagnose what is faulty with someone ELSE's product.
    2- Charge someone money to diagnose what it faulty with your OWN product.

  • Re:CompUSA (Score:3, Insightful)

    by netsharc ( 195805 ) on Friday May 21, 2004 @02:44AM (#9212575)
    Actually, it's usually the native speakers of english who have terrible spelling, non-natives have to formally learn the language and learn how to spell the words -- most learning is done through reading/writing anyway, whereas natives hear and speak a lot, but never really consider how to write the words they use.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 21, 2004 @02:47AM (#9212589)

    Any customer who tries to "tell" me there's a problem on our end is identified as a "Taco Bell Sysadmin" and goes on Penalty Hold while I count the number of geese on the lawn today.

    If there really is a problem on our end, we either already know about it and I'm about to associate you to the outage, or I find it on the call and escalate it to get a trouble ticket opened. That's *my* job, not the end user's.

    For every horror-story-generating Tier 1 agent, there are probably three more who gnash their teeth because they aren't ALLOWED to go off freelancing (good) solutions that deviate from company-prescribed troubleshooting.

  • by vxvxvxvx ( 745287 ) on Friday May 21, 2004 @02:53AM (#9212611)
    I used to work as a grunt in a transmission shop and through that I've been to a good deal of different shops on business.

    Standard at the shop I worked at was to only charge the fee when it was a bitchy customer or involved removing the transmission from the vehicle. Otherwise, a lot of diagnostic work was done free (You could argue it was made up for in what we charge for other services, but that's true for everything "free")

    In my experience dealing with other shops, that's generally true of nearly the whole auto service industry. Take a look at their car, check for the obvious things, and if more extensive testing is needed you start charging the customer for it (letting them know before hand of course.)
  • by zbuffered ( 125292 ) on Friday May 21, 2004 @02:53AM (#9212613)
    Solution: if a customer wants a level 2 tech, they have to answer a question first. Something simple enough, but that demonstrates that they know more about computers than the peons at level 1. IE: get me your IP address without any help. Tell me how you can eject a CD-ROM and a paperclip. Simple.
  • Re:neh, Fry's (Score:2, Insightful)

    by robsteele ( 158510 ) <robsteele@yDALIahoo.com minus painter> on Friday May 21, 2004 @02:55AM (#9212617)
    Hmm, two posts about polite Fry's guys telling the truth. Maybe it's not such a bad place.
  • by PsyQ ( 87838 ) on Friday May 21, 2004 @02:56AM (#9212621) Homepage
    In Switzerland all your tech support calls to Dell get rerouted depending on the language you speak/choose. French goes to France, Italian to Italy, German to Germany. So far, so good.

    Now I don't doubt that the Germans have quite a high level of quality when it comes to manufacturing machines, optical components, AMD processors and the like, but their customer service is definitely one of the worst I've ever had to experience.

    We had a Dell laptop with what we supposed was a damaged wireless LAN card. It would report "Network cable unplugged" even when the card's MAC was clearly allowed to get on the wireless LAN and had the correct SSID set. I'm a UNIX tech and don't know much about Windows, so I felt it might be nice to call Dell to find out what's wrong and get someone to send a replacement card if it really is the card's fault.

    After waiting patiently through 10 minutes of pop music three times (their system kicks you off after 10 minutes) I finally managed to get a real, flesh-coloured human on the other end of the line.

    Them: "Hello, Dell Inspiron support, how can I help you?"
    Me: "Ah, well, we have a Dell Truemobile blah blah card here that is acting odd. How can I verify that it really is defective?"

    He asks for the service tag, the usual details and I tell him the precise nature of the problem.

    Them: "Oh. Well, I see that you have Windows XP Home Edition preinstalled there. Home Edition does not support networks. I'm sorry, we can't take that card back, you need to upgrade to Pro and try again."

    I really hope he was fired afterwards, since as they say, "your call may be recorded for quality control". Swapping in the same model Dell TrueMobile card from a different shipment of notebooks worked just fine, by the way.
  • by GrouchoMarx ( 153170 ) on Friday May 21, 2004 @02:59AM (#9212632) Homepage
    True story.

    Back in 1995, my family had been using our first PC (whitebox 486 with Windows 3.1) for about a year. Our Microsoft mouse had been trouble from day 1. It kept sticking on screen as if the pointer hit something, even though the mouse itself was fine. I called MS, and over the course of the next few weeks they had us clean the mouse (several times), buy cleaning kits, change drivers, get a new mouse, nothing seemed to work. Finally, one tech (perfect English in those days) said, and I quote, "Well, I guess it's obviously your mouse pad. I guess you could always take your business elsewhere."

    The next day we bought a Logitech mouse, and have used exclusively Logitech mice for the past decade without the slightest bit of trouble. I later went on to help found a Linux Users Group in college.

    The moral: Dude, NEVER dare your customer to take their business elsewhere. Not even if you're Microsoft.
  • by brer_rabbit ( 195413 ) on Friday May 21, 2004 @03:22AM (#9212749) Journal
    Best Buy is fun-- I needed a crossover ethernet cable, went to Best Buy and asked the sales drone where they were. After finding them I gawked at the $30 price tag for a 10' cable. I said something about how I could get a crimper, cable and do it myself for that price.

    His response, "if you know how to use a crimper you shouldn't even be in Best Buy!"
  • by zemoo ( 582445 ) on Friday May 21, 2004 @03:26AM (#9212762) Homepage
    That's why you use "octet" when you want to be precise
  • by floki ( 48060 ) on Friday May 21, 2004 @03:38AM (#9212818)
    He didn't seem to realise that the "Idle" entry isn't actually a process...

    What would you call it instead? It is kind of a process. It just doesn't take part in the normal scheduling process as it is running at DPC/dispatch level. It also doesn't have a normal priority but is ranked as lowest-prio process [lancs.ac.uk] just below the zero page thread (has priority of 0). Articles and tools saying that the idle thread runs at priority 0 are wrong. For a tad more information look at this explanation [microsoft.com] of its functionality.
  • layer 8 (Score:3, Insightful)

    by CAIMLAS ( 41445 ) on Friday May 21, 2004 @04:32AM (#9212977)
    most technical problems I've experienced with users tends to be layer 8 of the OSI model...

  • by SlimFastForYou ( 578183 ) <konsoleman AT yahoo DOT com> on Friday May 21, 2004 @05:17AM (#9213129) Journal
    For the sake of answering your question...

    (And for the sake of simplicity, let's just assume a Windows XP machine... maybe with the My Computer icon turned on because thats what he asked the user to do..)

    Although start>run>cmd>ipconfig /all is probably the easiest way to go you could technically get the MAC address starting his way. However for such a clueless user, the steps to take are way too many.

    For example, on an XP machine:
    Start
    Right-click My Computer
    Properties
    Hardware Tab
    Device Manager
    Expand Network Adapters
    Right-click your network adapter
    Properties
    Advanced Tab
    Select Network Address from the list

    My wireless card has a hardware address in the value field when you click on Network Address when looking at it's property sheet. My ethernet card doesn't, however I am not hooked through ethernet at this moment. Your milage may vary. Seems much easier to do an ipconfig /all.
  • by atlasm ( 781738 ) on Friday May 21, 2004 @06:10AM (#9213275)
    I've been doing support for close to 10 years, and this just makes all helpdesk techs look bad. It casts a stigma on us all who strive to fix problems as opposed to just "answering the phone". If you don't know the answer, find out from someone who does! Don't BS the user, if you do, the next time they may not call, and if that happens enough, no one calls and your out of a job.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 21, 2004 @06:48AM (#9213372)
    Sounds like someone needs to call someone's supervisor and report someone for stealing on the job....

    But actually, this is pretty common when multiple companies try to share a wiring room. At a company I worked at a couple years back, one of the T1 lines would get disconnected multiple times in the wire room when some other company was trying to either hook up a new tenant in the office complex or disconnect someone else's service. This despite the boss going in and labeling the lines. As the lines were used for Internet and long distance calls to download data off client modems, it was a direct hit to the company's bottom line every time it happened because either the clients couldn't access their webpages or the data division had to switch to using regular long distance for modem dialups (a heck of a lot more expensive per minute).
  • Re:True story (Score:3, Insightful)

    by dave420 ( 699308 ) on Friday May 21, 2004 @07:09AM (#9213439)
    Just got to add this in here - that's not the normal operating procedure for windows. On linux, however, installing most software involves the command prompt at one stage, at least.

    I'm not a pro-microsoft/anti-linux guy (heck, I'm using linux right now), but let's not ignore serious shortcomings in the OS we love... :)

  • The out (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Democritus2 ( 553661 ) on Friday May 21, 2004 @07:42AM (#9213550) Journal
    No single worse call comes to my mind right now. However, the single worst practice does. In my experience, a good majority of tech support people are looking for the "out".

    I define "the out" to be the thing that "i" have done to make it so they dont have to help me.

    The out can be that I have a "linux server" somewhere in the building. ie "Oh, no so we dont support Linux so I can not help you on any network issue you might have."

    Comcast recently did this. For a real estate friend, I went over to look at what was wrong with her network and cable modem. I called up tech support and when I told the tech support person there was an internal network, i got "OH NO, no no. We can not give you any more support because you have an internal network. Thank you for calling though..." The tech support person had found his "out".

    Next time you are on a call with tech support, watch them try to find their out, the piece of knowledge that will free them from the obligation of helping you.

  • by swv3752 ( 187722 ) <[moc.liamtoh] [ta] [2573vws]> on Friday May 21, 2004 @08:24AM (#9213756) Homepage Journal
    Kibibytes as word is a failure. Outside of a few pedagogues on the internet, noone even knows such a term exists. Those familiar with computers are resistant to using new terms. Those unfamiliar consider it all gibberish anyways. And the new term are even more nonsensical as at least kilo and mega are somewhat familiar terms.

    Besides which, kilobyte and megabyte and gigabyte is not jargon. It is a computer term. Sorry but your attempt to revise history has failed.
  • by sammy baby ( 14909 ) on Friday May 21, 2004 @09:16AM (#9214101) Journal
    I have a coworker who used to do phone support for people who really had no business doing router maintenance, but were stuck with the job anyway. Invariably, these people were highly defensive about their level of competence, and suggesting that they check the obvious - "Did you check to see that it's plugged in?" - met with an angry response. "Of course I did!"

    So, coworker came up with a novel idea. Instead of asking them if the router was plugged in, he'd ask, "Can you unplug the power cord, and plug it back in upside down? Those cords are defective, sometimes you need to flip them."

    Every once in a while, the guy at the other end would stutter nervously for a moment, then say, "Hey, that worked! Thanks!" Of course, the plugs in question were three-pronged, so there was no way they could have been plugged in "upside down," but they were grateful for the opportunity to save a little face.
  • by p3d0 ( 42270 ) on Friday May 21, 2004 @09:20AM (#9214143)
    The aspect ratio doesn't matter. No aspect ratio would require bars on all four sides.
  • by Glonoinha ( 587375 ) on Friday May 21, 2004 @09:32AM (#9214253) Journal
    It's funny because that's how Americans really talk. Bet they didn't teach that line at the VPJ Acadamy of English.

    Customer asks : Why do I have to hit the Start button when I want to turn off the computer?

    Not how Americans talk : I am very happily to be helping you with your problems. You see it says right here that for you to be shutting down your computer you must be pressing the Start button and then verily nicely selecting the shut down option. It was my pleasure to be helpingly assisting you.

    How an American that didn't personally know the caller would reply : Because you have to.

    How an American that knows the caller on a personal basis would answer : Because you fucking have to.

    Once someone has mastered a particular instrument in music, they then enhance and personalize the music, make it -their- music, through improvisation. The English language is the same way - develop a mastery of the language and then extend it to better express yourself. A first year English student making up words and pronouncing them wrong, using the wrong tense and timber ... that's just ugly. George W Bush making up words to better express his point - that's funny. The word 'fucking' is in the language for a reason, both as an adverb and an adjective - and when used correctly adds significant value towards expressing a particular sentiment. I wouldn't use it as a verb in an office setting however, that would be wrong.

    To all the overseas Tier I tech support phone professionals : next time you get a call that is so blatantly obvious, something along the lines of 'Why do I have to (do something obvious)?' ... say 'Because you fucking have to.' The caller will relate, will understand the reply, and will probably respect you more for expressing yourself in a manner that doesn't try to hide behind technical jargon - you will be talking their language. No joke.
  • by harrkev ( 623093 ) <kevin@harrelson.gmail@com> on Friday May 21, 2004 @09:32AM (#9214258) Homepage
    Perhaps not.

    A 9600 baud serial link is only 960 characters per second. There are ten bits per byte, because you have a start bit and a stop bit for each character. That makes 10 bits per byte.

    Things get even stranger over ethernet... When measuring bandwidth in terms of bytes/sec, if you use FTP to measure it, then your measurment throws out the ethernet headers, which results in a lower number.

    So it all depends on how you measure.
  • by tverbeek ( 457094 ) on Friday May 21, 2004 @09:40AM (#9214348) Homepage
    Umm... Ethernet frames don't get send over dialup lines.

    Right. But parity and stop bits do. I usually pretend that a byte = 10 bits (and simplify my mental arithmetic) when looking at dial-up throughput rates.

  • by Tiroth ( 95112 ) on Friday May 21, 2004 @09:44AM (#9214399) Homepage
    From the excerpt, that support guy just seems to be a whiner. Example:

    Some people are very reluctant to let a call end. I don't know if they've found the experience so trying that they want to do everything they can to make sure they don't need to call back, are afraid to try things on their own or simply can't believe that their computer's fixed and will stay fixed.

    Anyone who has dealt with tech support/customer service at a large company already knows why the "insecure user" doesn't want to hang up: they probably had to navigate through a 10-level automated system and wait on hold for 30 minutes to get support on the phone--and they know if they call back again, they'll have to repeat the explanation/troubleshooting of the problem from square 1.
  • by AmericanInKiev ( 453362 ) on Friday May 21, 2004 @10:14AM (#9214680) Homepage
    This is an old argument first heard echoing around the halls of international translation.

    A Table in English translates to "(a Table)" in German, but the germans have different cultural associations with the word, and thus the word Table in english in fact conjures up completely different connotations, emotions and sensibilities in the english speaker when compared to the word for the same objeect in germany.

    (Not my argument - a paraphrase of classical translation pedogogy)

    What we have here is a translation between base 10 for humans and base 2 for bounded arrays.

    Most people use arabic notation, but in fact store and think of large numbers in base 10 scientific notation. We are essentially zero-counters when it comes to large numbers.

    Computers on the other hand are first binary, and secondly store numbers in multidimentional arrays. They are not zero counters, and do not favor round numbers. Generally computers favor memory blocks which are bounded by n dimensions each of which is a exponent of 2.

    All thiis to get back to the main point.

    The limitations of translation ensures one will never be able to express computer number comfortable in english - and thus the attempt should be governed by the law of diminishing returns.

    AIK

  • Re:MCSE (Score:3, Insightful)

    by SuiteSisterMary ( 123932 ) <slebrunNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Friday May 21, 2004 @10:20AM (#9214753) Journal

    Actually, the good analogy would be 'some guy plowed into me with his car; he had a license. Therefore, having a drivers license isn't an indication of actual driving skill.'

    Well, having your MCSE isn't an indication of your actual skill; it's an indication of your ability to pass a standarized test.

  • by rcs1000 ( 462363 ) * <rcs1000&gmail,com> on Friday May 21, 2004 @10:34AM (#9214910)
    You are absolutely right. I fscked up beyond all belief.

    Now, I know it seems hard to believe but I'm sure saw it somewhere. My apologies to the person I've accused of lying/stealing/karmic whoring.

  • Re:Emachines (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Bogue ( 652570 ) on Friday May 21, 2004 @10:42AM (#9214999)
    The warrenty is void. All we can do is exchange it for a new one.

    Thats an incredible warranty.
  • by goatan ( 673464 ) <ian.hearn@rpa.gsi.gov.uk> on Friday May 21, 2004 @11:30AM (#9215702) Journal
    Once someone has mastered a particular instrument in music, they then enhance and personalize the music, make it -their- music, through improvisation. The English language is the same way - develop a mastery of the language and then extend it to better express yourself.

    not really Changing the spelling of a word is like changing one note in a chord it does look/sound wrong. music is made up of relations beetween notes that don't change, it's what notes are used in what order and rythm that makes your music just like it's what word's in what order make up your essay the notes and words should never change e is e c is c. this is true even for jazz. Improvisation doesn't meen hitting random notes you still have to play what has been composed to sound like the song your doing.

  • by SirRuka ( 652692 ) on Friday May 21, 2004 @11:34AM (#9215778)
    That's the most likely answer, but another is taxiway restrictions. Not all taxiways are made to take every size and weight aircraft. They may be older or run next to buildings (You don't exactly want part of the wing sheared off by a wall.). Thus the plane would have needed to wait until a suitable taxi path was available before heading to the runway.
  • by Glonoinha ( 587375 ) on Friday May 21, 2004 @11:41AM (#9215874) Journal
    I can see it now. New guy shows up at the office, first day on the job. Starts talking and in the same breath utters the words 'kibibyte' and 'gibibyte'. Two of the guys on the team hold him down and start beating him senseless, two others start picking apart his resume and application paperwork to get him fired that same day on a technicality.

    Anybody that actually says either of those words in my presence is getting bitchslapped, no doubt, and probably sent packing during the next set of layoffs.
  • by fitten ( 521191 ) on Friday May 21, 2004 @11:57AM (#9216108)
    Nah, I'm saying if they want to change it, they have to change away from our terminology. KiloByte remains 1024 bytes. If they don't like our "kilo" being 1024 and want something to mean 1000, then they should use the Kibi to mean 1000, then they should also not use the term "byte" either, as it is a technical reference, so they should replace that with something else, thus, KiloByte = 1024 bytes, KibiFloople = 1000 Flooples.

    As to the other comment, the tech language we use was derived in the context of our field. It'd be like a bunch of novices coming in and completely changing the jargon of the plumbing field or medicine based on their uninformed preconceptions. "That's not a crescent wrench! It looks nothing like a crescent. Let's call it a Variable Gap Bolt Loosener and require everyone else in the world to do the same."

    Also... Kibi and Mebi are just very unprofessional sounding, like they belong in some Pokemon cartoon. I wonder how many person-hours in committee were required to come up with those terms. I know they preserve the K and the M but this is rediculous. As for me, I will refuse to use "Kibi" and "Mebi".
  • C'mon, man. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by StarKruzr ( 74642 ) on Friday May 21, 2004 @01:04PM (#9217278) Journal
    Let's be honest. You can usually tell within the first four sentences spoken - including the greetings and introductions - whether the caller is going to be capable of following instructions and perhaps even useful toward resolving the issue, or will be completely, utterly fucking worthless.

    It's amazing how much you can learn just from hearing someone's voice. And I haven't been wrong yet.
  • by jonadab ( 583620 ) on Friday May 21, 2004 @07:50PM (#9221566) Homepage Journal
    > Actually calling 1024 'kilo' and 1024^2 'mega' has always been insider jargon

    All of the terms in question, "bit", "byte", "nybble", "word", "double word",
    "quadword", "kilobyte", "megabyte", "gigabyte", "terabyte", and so on and
    so forth, are *all* inherently jargon. End users don't have any clue what
    any of them mean (and shouldn't have to, in this era of hard drives large
    enough to store more documents than you have time to create before the sizes
    have inflated so much that your drive is so hopelessly tiny it belongs in a
    museum). Just because they're jargon terms is no reason to change their
    meaning.

    > What 1024 bytes are _really_ called now is a Kibibyte

    *WAY* fewer people use that terminology than the traditional terminology.

    The 1000-byte "kilobyte" and the million-byte "megabyte" were devised by hard
    drive manufacturers who want to inflate their size numbers. No operating
    system by *any* vendor uses this type of "kilobyte" or "megabyte", nor does
    any bandwidth provider of which I'm aware, nor any common throughput-measuring
    software or device, nor any popular application software I'm aware of. Pretty
    much just the hard-drive manufacturers.
  • by tricorn ( 199664 ) <sep@shout.net> on Saturday May 22, 2004 @03:44AM (#9223692) Journal

    Ever since modems went higher than 2400 bps, with various protocols for compression and reliability built in, the actual data transmission (over the phone line) has not included start/stop bits. The transmission between the modem and the computer does, of course, when using asynch transmission modes. Combined with compression, that's why you want the data speed on the serial line to be higher than the transmission rate over the phone line, combined with a flow control mechanism (x-on/off or rts/dts).

    Things would have been so much simpler if Hayes hadn't been so successful and modem control lines had been used. In particular, if synchronous transmission (specifically, SDLC) along with a variable clock rate, had become standardized, all of the garbage of trying to packetize frames over SLIP/PPP, all of the headaches (including patents) of +++, all of the hassle of trying to figure out interface speeds by looking at the bit pattern of A and T, and not noticing that a connection had dropped because the "CARRIER DROPPED" came out in the middle of a packet, would have been eliminated. Transmit clock, receive clock, RTS, CTS, DCD, and use DTR to signal between data and sending configuration commands. Combine with RS-422 signalling for better noise resistance and Ethernet might never have needed to be invented. Just using SDLC with a self-clocking protocol would have been a major win, as frames are checksummed and start/stop bits don't need to be sent (the overhead of flags and beginning/end of frame is irrelevant as when the amount of data goes up, the overhead drops as low as necessary). It works fine as an "asynchronous" protocol, i.e. interactive typing.

  • by jonadab ( 583620 ) on Saturday May 22, 2004 @06:36PM (#9226774) Homepage Journal
    > > Why can't we have advanced tech support?
    > Because everyone will choose that.

    Quite so. There's a solution to this: make 'em pass a quiz. Use a bank of
    100 questions and give them _three_; if they get all three right, you give
    them tier-two support immediately. If not, you send them to Tier 1. Of
    course, you should only make people spend time taking this quiz if they want
    to get to Tier 2 without going through Tier 1. Normal people would just go
    through Tier 1 instead, but in case they try the quiz, you want to word it
    in such a way that they don't realize that they're failing and being sent
    to Tier 1. I imagine it might go something like this...

    Recording: "Thank you for calling BigCompany. If you know your party's
    extension, press 1 now. For Sales, press 2. For End User Tech Support,
    press 3. For Advanced User Tech Support, press 4..." [User presses 4]

    Recording: "To help us diagnose your problem more quickly, please answer
    these simple questions."
    Recording: "What version of Internet Protocol are you using? If you are
    using IP version 1, please press 1. If you are using IP version 2, press
    2. If you are using IP version 3, press 3. For End User Tech Support,
    press Star."

    At this point if the user presses 1, 2, 3, or *, he gets thanked in a nice
    recorded voice and put in the queue for End User Tech Support, otherwise
    known as Tier 1. If he hits 4 or 6, he goes on to the next question...

    Recording: "Which program do you normally use to edit your registry?
    If you use Internet Explorer to edit your registry, press 1. If you
    export the registry, use Notepad to edit the REG file, and then import
    your changes, press 2. If you use Outlook Express to edit your registry,
    press 3. If you use Microsoft Word or Excel to edit your registry,
    press 4. For End User Tech Support, press Star."

    Again, if they choose any of the wrong answers, a polite recorded voice
    thanks them for this valuable information about their internet connection
    and asks them to hold for the next representative, and they go into the
    Tier 1 queue. If they get it right, they get a third random question
    from the bank, and if they get the third one right they go into the Tier
    2 queue.

    The hard part is making a big bank of questions that clueless people will
    mistake for regular diagnostic questions but the sufficiently cluefull will
    always be able to get the right answer. There will be a *handful* of people
    in the middle who will know what's going on but maybe not know all of the
    answers, but they can call a second time and hope to get easier questions,
    and in any case they'll be *way* in the minority, if the questions are
    written properly. (You have to write them so the wrong answers are very
    obviously wrong only if you understand the question and seem to make sense
    otherwise.)

    Unfortunately, I don't think it's possible to write 100 questions as good
    as the IP version question. That one's impossible for a techie to get
    wrong, so impossible for a techie to get wrong that the correct answers
    don't even have to be listed as one of the options, meaning basically
    nobody will get it right if they don't know. Most of the questions will
    be more like the second one; end users might possibly be able to guess them
    correctly, which is why I think there should be three questions, not just
    one. If many clueless people get through to Tier 2 only to find out
    the circuit the computer's on tripped a breaker, the system fails. The
    reason for the bank of course is so people in the know can't easily tell
    morons "the secret" to get Tier 2 support; each person has to prove for
    *himself* that he knows more than the Tier 1 support reps.

    The risk inherent in this system is a PR risk; some end users might notice
    that the questions are different each time, and, if they're smart (yes,
    there are smart people who aren't knowledgeable about

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