How Valuable is a Minor in Computer Science? 93
DenmaFat asks: "I'm an IT person finally finishing my BA (in Psych) at a big state U. For a few dollars (and about a semester) more, I can also minor in CS. I'll probably do it anyway, because I love the subject matter, but I'm wondering what the value of a CS minor is in the job market. Are there any CS minor holders who can speak from experience on this one?"
Probably not much (Score:5, Insightful)
Having 5 years of experience matters more than what the exact degree is.
That said - having something that says CS on your resume will get you through a lot of HR screens. Remember for each job a company posts, 100s of resumes come in. They might phone screen 4-5 candidates and bring in 1-2. The job of your resume is to get you from the door to the phone screen.
Once you are past the HR droid - your degree doesn't matter, your technical skills do... And trust me - I can tell if you have what I am looking for, and I don't care if you have a minor in CS, a partial degree, or a degree in animal husbandry.
Re:Probably not much (Score:4, Funny)
Translation: Knowing how to deal with bullshit is a heck of a lot more important than being able to write Hello World in Java.
c.Re:Probably not much (Score:1)
On an unrelated note, it's a little sad that college has become nothing but vocational training. You should go to college
Re:Probably not much (Score:2)
teaching. it allows you to teach a whole other subject, which helps when you want a job. for example, i don't have a minor in math, but accumulated liek 24 units of math via math and econ (stats and enometrics cross linked to math classes) in college (almost 20 years ago, so don't ask me any tough quesitons!!) and it helped me get my first job teaching. well, actually the first job offer. well, actually, the first job someone wanted me for. my degree is econ, and i te
Re:Probably not much (Score:2, Flamebait)
I was with you to the end. Right at the end you suddenly start to sound like a typical teacher - loved most of school, but hated math. Like a typical teacher you can do it, but are unable to pass on the pure beauty that is truth math. (Not to be confused with arithmetic)
Reading and writing are foundations, it would be a mistake to forget them. However math is as important as philosophy, and both are more important than history. (History is the grounding you need to understand philosophy, while scie
Re:Probably not much (Score:1)
Re:Probably not much (Score:2)
Maybe, I think (Score:5, Interesting)
Of course if I were hiring you to be my shrink, I wouldn't give a flying one whether or not you had a minor in CS
Re:Maybe, I think (Score:1)
Just how much knowledge can a person glean from a semester of CS courses? Enough to be able to answer your customers' questions without looking silly? Usually with highly technical products, the sales people can do pricing and paperwork, but any serious questions quickly get routed to engineers, at least in my experience.
Re:Maybe, I think (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Maybe, I think (Score:1)
Re:Maybe, I think (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:CS minor better than CS major (Score:3, Insightful)
Instead of paying someone who really does now how to program (which includes being able to create a well thought-out design and actually implement it), the managers think they can save a few bucks by having an engineer who "knows" how to program hack something out real quick. It may be a few months down the road before it is realized that the program is crap and has to be completely redone. The
Re:CS minor better than CS major (Score:2)
1. Hacker writes Q&D program badly
2. Company tries to use it in poduction
3. Company finds out it sucks
4. Company hires you to fix it
5. PROFT!!!!
And the other way around (Score:2)
You get a beautiful program full of object-oriented highly encapsulated buzzword prettified heavy weight infrastructure.
But the computations don't conserve momentum.
Or money.
I.e. a "bad" program which does approximately the right thing to solve the problem is better than a beautiful program which does positively the wrong thing.
Re:And the other way around (Score:1)
Re:And the other way around (Score:2)
Re:And the other way around (Score:2)
Re:And the other way around (Score:1)
I agree, but I believe that you are much more likely to get a program that "approximates" the right thing with someone who actually knows what they are doing (i.e. has a CS major/minor, or has at least taken a few classes past the beginner level).
Re:CS minor better than CS major (Score:5, Insightful)
and "hack" (as in done blindly with an axe) would be an appropriate description of the way many of them "program".
Trust me. I've seen code from people with what you call "real degrees"
Re:CS minor better than CS major (Score:2)
Re:CS minor better than CS major (Score:1, Interesting)
Well, we have tried to use CS people, and I have seen the code, too.
The usual result is that the engineer's code works. The engineer's code gets the job done. And, it didn't take freaking 1.5 years to explain it to the dumb-ass CS person who doesn't know jack sh*t about differential equations and physical chemistry.
People with "real degrees", like engineers, tend to pic
Re:CS minor better than CS major (Score:3, Interesting)
Depends on the CS people. When I was in college, I was one of two undergrad CS majors who spanked an entire class of EE majors in an upper-division/graduate EE class that was essentially 'programming for direct hardware control' (i.e., writing code to control SIO chips). The professor had to give the two of us 'A's and grade the rest of the class on a curve so he wouldn
*Sigh* (Score:5, Insightful)
Common sense, the ability to work with others *gasp*, work habits, and organization skills are more important than the quality of a piece paper you bring into my office. We can teach any other skills that are required if someone is passionate enough about technology.
Re:*Sigh* (Score:3, Insightful)
Absolutely. On the other hand, if you don't go ahead and get the minor in computer science, what do you answer when someone asks "so, you claim to be really interested in computers... why didn't you take more computer science courses at university?"
Re:*Sigh* (Score:1)
I hate those kinds of questions, which might be one reason why the credential (no matter how modest) of a minor is attractive.
answer (Score:2)
"I'm interested in computers, not computer science."
And then explain the statement. I know CS professors that have no idea if the system on their desk is from Sun or SGI. And they don't need to -- they work in abstractions and barely need actual software, let
Re:*Sigh* (Score:2)
On that subject, I always look for inspiration to my heroes in open source, like D.J. Bernstein and Theo De Raadt [monkey.org]!
Re:*Sigh* (Score:2)
In other words, now you are just plain bald...
Do it only for yourself (Score:1)
If, however, you are interested in the coursework, then by all means do it.
Go for it. (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Go for it. (Score:5, Informative)
I was on track for a Math minor as an undergrad, but flunked a class (didn't bother doing the homework, which turned out to be essential to passing the tests), and suddenly had to think about whether I really needed to dig myself out of that hole and struggle through the last couple courses. I didn't. They really didn't interest me enough. And no one has cared. My employers have all been far more interested in my work experience and abilities, not whether I took Differential Equations.
I also didn't major in Philosophy, but was only a few courses short of that as well. I don't regret that either... both taking the classes and not taking them all. The point is that I took the non-major classes I took because I wanted to learn the material (and I mentioned them in my interviews to make sure my potential employers knew that). Getting a formal minor to put on my resume didn't really matter.
Re:Go for it. (Score:2)
What has mattered to my employers? Let's see, in school I worked a little for the computing center, and my boss there recomended me to a friend who gave me a summer j
Who's paying for your schooling? (Score:1)
If you are, then get your B.A. and get out. The last thing you need is another semester (another 12%!) on your school loan payments. Your degree gets you your first job. Your first job gets you your second job. And so forth. So, if you want your first job to be CS-related, that's one thing, but otherwise save your money for better things.
Re:I'll tell you one thing: (Score:1, Funny)
Huh? Who else is qualified to do surveys at the mall?
Re:I'll tell you one thing: (Score:1)
Money's not the most important thing, but that's good information, thanks.
You might as well have majored in dance.
I could still switch to a music major and start earning really big bucks. But I want to graduate before I'm 50.
Re:I'll tell you one thing: (Score:2)
Ergonomics (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:I'll tell you one thing: (Score:2)
my girlfriend has an MS (MA? Not sure how it's classified in Swiss universities) in psych (along with a few sub-degree type things in French and business) and she got an offer from one of the big 5 (at the time) consulting outfits pretty handily. There is, in a lot of companies, pretty hefty demand for that sort of academic background. She makes more than most prestigious-school-CS-graduates I know (I graduated from Berkeley, so that's quite a few.)
Come to think of it, I've a degree in a piddly-squ
Who fucking knows (Score:1, Interesting)
If you like the courses and are challenged by them, take them. Same applies to basket weaving. You can make a living doing lots of stuff.
Human factors (Score:5, Insightful)
-molo
Re:Human factors (Score:1)
Re:Human factors (Score:2)
[Regarding the importance of Human Factors engineers]
"...You must mean in academia, because HCI [Human Computer Interface] is not even a consideration in the business world I live in..."
Do tell what business world you live in. Is this the business world where all HCI's are utter ass?
Just because you haven't heard of it, or don't understand it, you really shouldn't be so shortsighted as to dismiss out of hand a whole domain of IT endeavour which can significantly affect your bottom line.
I've seen UI'
Human Factors (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Push the psych thing further (Score:2)
The co-ops seem to do fairly well, and believe me, the school loves tooting their horn about that.
And I might be taking CS, but I definitely want to end up with more than just a CS degree and a job in IT.
Re:Push the psych thing further (Score:1)
Who cares? (Score:4, Insightful)
I encourage every college student I know to take as many courses as they can in CS. Not because they will use them, but because almost any job these days requires interacting not only with computers but with computer people and it is good to have some clue as to what the computer is really doing and what the computer people are doing as well.
just a little joke (Score:5, Funny)
For a few dollars more, you can learn about C++ (the good), Java (the bad), and Perl (the ugly), get a job, and barely make from it all a fistful of dollars.
Re:just a little joke (Score:1)
They teach C++ in the first semester these days (by the end...to be continued in CS2...).
Re:just a little joke (Score:1)
Re:just a little joke (Score:2)
If you major in CS, minor in logic (Score:5, Informative)
A must read : Undergraduation [paulgraham.com]. ( and feedback from anon professors on this essay [paulgraham.com] )
Yet Another College Advice Essay [joelonsoftware.com]
Grab some microeconomics [joelonsoftware.com] before you leave.
The following is from http://www.paulgraham.com/hiring.html [paulgraham.com]
Re:If you major in CS, minor in logic (Score:2)
[/stupid humor]
A solid collection of well written articles to be sure. Thank you for the service you've done a great many college students today.
you didn't tell us what your career goals are (Score:1)
In general I would say a CS minor looks very good accompanying a non-technical major, because it shows you have an interest in and can handle an increasingly technological world and
Degree Subjects Are Meaningless (Score:1)
I've personally seen far, far too many employers treat a degree like a check box on a form - either you've got one, or you don't. Experience is much more valuable than your major/minor is.
Make sure you really love the subject matter. (Score:1)
I happen to be a Systems/Networking person, and I ended up *not* minoring in CS because the CS track at the school I was attending was 95% programming. I took 1 CS course (C++), learned nothing except syntax (which I learned mostly from online HOWTO's), and never took another.
If there were more courses in focusing on Networking or System Administration, I'd have taken more. So, check what is offered before you leap in!
Re:Make sure you really love the subject matter. (Score:1)
That being said, I do feel that everyone working in IT should have some knowledge of programming (even if it is just the knowledge that they hate it). This means learning at least one programming language and a course in data structures. If your minor offers you the ability to get an introduction both the hardware and software side of things, plus theory, I'd say go for it.
CS + General Engineering for UIUC (Score:2)
Is a CS MAJOR even worth anything? (Score:3, Insightful)
The minor is useful for YOU, but has no $ value. (Score:2)
Computer science, in and of itself, isn't particularly commercially viable anymore, what with outsourcing, offshoring, H1-Bs and L-1's getting most of the jobs... You shouldn't look at the question of whether to study computer science as an economic one. It isn't going to make you a penny, unless you major in it and leave the private sector, or go all the way and become a f
Re:BA (Score:2)
Please not that there is no BS in B.S. as it is a fine art and not an exact science =]
Considering that a Major doesn't do you much good, (Score:1)
I graduated as a CS major, and to be honest I'd have been better off if I'd taken something else. I'd probably still have my unix sysadmin job, and I've have had the chance to take some more interesting courses.
seriously... a minor? (Score:1)
this reminds me of a bash quote btw:
#352172 +(3506)- [X]
NHBoy: I broke my G-string while fingering a minor
rycool:
NHBoy: I was trying to play Knocking on Heaven's Door.
NHBoy: Oh well, time to buy new strings.
Yes - for 4 simple reasons (Score:2)
2. Perhaps more importantly, people hiring into positions that would entertain a psychology degree are very happy to have someone on their side to help them deal with those nasty nerds. Perhaps reason 1 has something to do with this feeling?
3. Most positions require a level of computer savvy these da
I had a CS Minor and now have a job in Tech. (Score:2, Interesting)
I graduated during the downfall of dot-coms with a BA in Economics/Finance, and a minor is CS. Being stubborn, I shunned the i-banking jobs my fellow Econ majors were taking and still went for a job in technology (even though they were in scarce supply). I ended up finding a great company that was more interested in hiring smart people than what letters they had on
Thanks for the Advice (Score:1)
The HCI tangent really interests me, and I googled upon the HCI Bibliography:
http://www.hcibib.org/ [hcibib.org]
That's enough to keep me busy for a while. Maybe in a c
Re:Thanks for the Advice (Score:1)
Be careful (Score:2)