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Software

Where is the Killer Calendar? 725

AnonaCow writes "Firefox and Thunderbird rock my world, but Mozilla's Calendar (Sunbird) has a long way to go. This maybe mundane, but what software does the slashdot community use to schedule? How do you keep track of your various appointments? What about your 'To Do' List?"
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Where is the Killer Calendar?

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  • So far... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Tavor ( 845700 ) on Saturday June 11, 2005 @09:29PM (#12792043)
    Nothing I've seen beats the Paper calander. Customizable notes, available with any wallpaper you could ask for, and quirky quotes available upon request. User can edit most all of the interface by writing, cutting, and/or pasting objects into the suqres and into the pictures. Beat that, Outlook 2003!
  • Re:Outlook 2003 (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 11, 2005 @09:30PM (#12792055)
    Yeah, I'm a big open source convert but email and calendaring are so critical to what I do that I simply can't stand not having the best. Even if it is sadly a ms product. Nothing comes close to MS Outlook 2003, not even outlook XP.
  • Decidedly low-tech (Score:3, Insightful)

    by c0d3h4x0r ( 604141 ) on Saturday June 11, 2005 @09:32PM (#12792069) Homepage Journal
    I sometimes stick personal appointments into my Outlook calendar at work, but for the most part, I simply don't keep a to-do list or a datebook or anything like that.

    I've found over the years that if I start compiling things into a "to-do" list or a schedule, then I'm more inclined (not less) to miss things or not do things, because they have officially become more of a nuissance by being on a list of things I feel obligated to do. When I just keep track of things mentally instead, then it doesn't feel like it's hanging over my head all the time and I feel like I can do it whenever I damn well please, which makes it more likely to actually get done.

  • by Bungopolis ( 763083 ) on Saturday June 11, 2005 @09:35PM (#12792093)
    That sounds nice -- have you released it to the world? If not, please do.
  • NOTHING! (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Sparr0 ( 451780 ) <sparr0@gmail.com> on Saturday June 11, 2005 @09:37PM (#12792105) Homepage Journal
    How about "Nothing"? I can count on one hand the number of things I need to accomplish and places I need to go, other than my commute on work days, during the next 8 weeks. Stop living such complicated lives. You do not need to schedule a trip to the grocery store. When the thing you want isnt in the cupboard, go shopping.
  • MOD UP! (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 11, 2005 @09:43PM (#12792141)

    Using a computer for a "to-do" list or calendar is just using technology for the sake of using technology. Pen and paper works fine. It has the advantage of being more portable than the smallest PDA as well.

  • by l0ungeb0y ( 442022 ) on Saturday June 11, 2005 @09:45PM (#12792154) Homepage Journal
    I'm sure a lot of other people will or have said it,
    but iCal synched with iPod is bliss.

    Additionally, you can post your iCal schedule online and share it with .mac

  • by NeoThermic ( 732100 ) on Saturday June 11, 2005 @09:46PM (#12792158) Homepage Journal
    Being dyslexic and dyspraxic (it has its perks once and a while), I can't write well on paper. Infact, my fine motor control is so bad that it looks like a spider has died, rather than my todo list.

    So to organise anything, I use a whiteboard with pens. Why? Its better than any digital application as it works without power, doesn't require me to sit down to use it, and most importantly, it requires gross motor control, something that I still have.

    When you're able to write your todo list in 10cm letters at any time, able to check it off in many ways, and even the ability to doddle when bored, you'll see that there isn't a single application that can ever come close to a whiteboard.

    NeoThermic
  • by Umbral Blot ( 737704 ) on Saturday June 11, 2005 @09:52PM (#12792202) Homepage
    sticky notes
  • Sunbird & iCal (Score:2, Insightful)

    by epall ( 632054 ) on Saturday June 11, 2005 @09:52PM (#12792206) Homepage
    I have a small network with a few users and we use a combination of iCal and Sunbird. We have an apache web server with a WebDAV repository to store the calendars, so we can all look at them. All three compuers can see all four calendars (there's an extra "common" calendar) and changes are automatically propagated between machines. iCal even syncs one of the calendars to my Treo 650. Yes, Sunbird can be a little hard to work with and a little buggy at times, but it mostly does the job. And we don't need any kind of expensive Exchange server software.
  • Re:iCal (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Darth Maul ( 19860 ) on Saturday June 11, 2005 @09:53PM (#12792212)
    Amen to that. iCal is perfect. I keep my calendars remote on my Linux server (webdav), too. The iCal interface is just right; nothing gets in the way. I can also sync right to my iPod.

    Of course this assumes you have a OS X machine around... But try it out sometime at an Apple store or something if you don't have a Mac zealot friend ;).
  • Re:Outlook 2003 (Score:2, Insightful)

    by kraiger ( 704911 ) on Saturday June 11, 2005 @09:54PM (#12792222)
    I agree completely... I'm a fan of simple. I don't need a huge amount of features to keep track of where I need to be and when. iCal does this perfectly, along with having great search options to also help keep track.
  • by Goth Biker Babe ( 311502 ) on Saturday June 11, 2005 @09:54PM (#12792227) Homepage Journal
    I didn't like having to keep 3 apps open at the same time.

    Out of interest why?

    One of the things I hated when I had to use Windows (in business) was that unlike the OS I loved (RISC OS which doesn't have the concept of the MDI and everything is opened in its own window) it had big monolithic apps rather than lots of little ones that worked together.

    One of the things I like about OS-X (and the earlier MacOSes) is that they have relatively small apps that do work together.

    Isn't the point of the GUI to be able to have several apps open at the same time? So as I've said above out of interest why do you prefer one monolithic app?
  • Re:Outlook 2003 (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ciroknight ( 601098 ) on Saturday June 11, 2005 @09:57PM (#12792243)
    Well see, processor speed really has nothing to do with bloat.

    This machine I'm typing on has a cool 128 MB of ram. Loading an application that requires 25 software libraries to do something as simple as sort a list or add a funky widget toolbar is not something this machine can withstand with ease. Running thin, streamlined apps is something that keeps my machine enjoyable to use.

    That said, the Open Source world is far from listening to our calls to reduce bloat; instead they drive forward, coding the same application over and over, disorganized libraries, untracable dependencies, all and all just masses of code lumped together. While this bulk of code has thousands of useful features, many of them are hidden from sight behind a terminal which scares people away, and the few that make it through to the desktop are often behind clunky software libraries that people are constantly at war building and defending.

    I hope this post doesn't come off as a troll because I really love and enjoy Linux and the BSDs that gracefully allowed Mac OS X to come into being, but I seriously hope that we get better at organizing our efforts as developers and software engineers and not continue forever honing our programming skills. While an app may not be perfect, it can Just Work, and we can fix the bugs as we go. For the critial apps, good design begets good implementation. We should embrace these lessons as we look to the future.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 11, 2005 @10:01PM (#12792270)
    For appointments, to-do lists, scheduling, etc. I have tried:

    1. Dayplanners-- useful for a few days and then I forget it somewhere and then its not so useful.

    2. PDA-- small and stylish (at the time), but too slow to input anything.

    3. Software-- great when you're at home, but locked into the computer which makes it not so portable.

    Finally I wound up relying on my brain to keep track of everything. It's portable, doesn't take up much space, somewhat stylish (if you're into that kinda thing), never runs out of memory, input is quick, output is quick unless hampered by beer or boobs.
  • Re:Outlook 2003 (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Keebler71 ( 520908 ) on Saturday June 11, 2005 @10:03PM (#12792286) Journal
    iCal is not only 100% less bloated, it's also much easier to track things like to-do lists, and have multiple, overlapping schedules. In combination with using an open standard, it's easy to publish your calenders and keep track of everything.

    This is all very astonishing of you, considering that later in this thread you admit that you have never actually used Outlook2k3...

  • by djdavetrouble ( 442175 ) on Saturday June 11, 2005 @10:13PM (#12792340) Homepage
    Yeah ical is ok, but actually I had serious problems when I wanted to print a fairly complicated itinerary. I ended up inputting the whole thing into palm desktop because I was in a crunch. I needed printouts that I could hand out to people. If I had more than a few things on a day, It would truncate text on the printout, rendering it useless and wack. So, great for scheduling your little activites, but for anything complicated (production schedule for example) its a no-go.

    ical is also not equipped for work groups, strictly a single user experience. At the office (1000+ workstations) we have been using groupwise for years and years and years. It is not without its ups and downs, but for email and calendar/scheduling it is a decent mule.
  • Psion Agenda (Score:3, Insightful)

    by tverbeek ( 457094 ) on Saturday June 11, 2005 @10:35PM (#12792460) Homepage
    I have lived most of the past decade and a half in the "Agenda" programs included in Psion's PDAs. The EPOC5 version has everything I need: customised alarms, recurring events (by almost any formula), multiple prioritised to-do lists, embedded notes... I seriously haven't figured out what features it could be missing. Maybe someone who's used the more recent Symbian versions can clue me in.

    As a 5-year-old release, the Agenda version I'm using is probably getting hard to synch up with desktop- or network-based apps, but I've never really seen much point in doing that. I can check it whether I'm at the office, at home, or anywhere else, after all.

  • Re:MOD UP! (Score:2, Insightful)

    by jondt ( 870495 ) on Saturday June 11, 2005 @10:36PM (#12792464)
    Using a computer for a "to-do" list or calendar is just using technology for the sake of using technology.
    On the contrary, I think it is one of the best uses of technology.

    Pen and paper works fine. It has the advantage of being more portable than the smallest PDA as well.
    Lets see.
    • I can sync entries between any computer in the world, including my phone (which is actually smaller than any diary I've ever seen - and is always in my pocket anyway).
    • I can create backups at a click of my mouse.
    • I can publish selected parts of it so that others can shedule around my life.
    • I can include hyperlinks and documents within my entries for easy retrieval nearer the time.

    Elaborate please, why is this technology for the sake of using technology?
  • My Brain (Score:2, Insightful)

    by AgentAce ( 246327 ) on Saturday June 11, 2005 @11:01PM (#12792567)
    I don't need a damn piece of software to tell me what I have to do next, I'm quite capable of remembering on my own.
  • Re:Outlook 2003 (Score:3, Insightful)

    by The Conductor ( 758639 ) on Saturday June 11, 2005 @11:06PM (#12792585)
    Fair enough, but y'know, Outlook doesn't make backup management easy. Everything...every email from the beginning of time to two minutes ago, every contact, every appt, all in one honkin' PST file. Not the sort of thing that lends itself to incremental backups. Get a single email today? That's the whole 2 GB PST file to backup tonight. PST file bigger than 700 MB? Gotta figure out how to span multiple CD-R's, or no soup for you!

    Where I work, the users have pushed their PST files onto the local fileserver, and the nightly backup (out the building's T1) has become so large that it runs into the next work morning, clogging the link so people can't login.

    I use have to use Outlook every day and my conclusion is that it is for people who don't care about reliability. The users have gotten a vague feel for this fact and have developed workarounds: People in our Chinese locations routinely request return receipts. Anything really important doesn't go over email anymore, making conference calls with Europe & the far East very common, and the workday stretches out to all manner of odd hours.

    For the record, I use Kmail & Kalandar at home. Not quite as automatic as Outlook (when it works, that is, and when you can trust it, which is never), and a little more work to set up, but not lacking any feature I really need.

  • Re:NOTHING! (Score:4, Insightful)

    by wideBlueSkies ( 618979 ) * on Saturday June 11, 2005 @11:18PM (#12792642) Journal
    >>How about "Nothing"? I can count on one hand the number of things I need to accomplish and places I need to go, other than my commute on work days, during the next 8 weeks. Stop living such complicated lives.

    Not to sound harsh, but based upon your comments I get the sense that you probably haven't managed a project or otherwise been responsible for the work of others.

    wbs.
  • Re:Outlook 2003 (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Dorothy 86 ( 677356 ) on Saturday June 11, 2005 @11:29PM (#12792693) Homepage
    The Mac version, Entourage, that comes with Office 2004 is just as nice. In fact, Entourage is why I started using Outlook on my PCs. I couldn't live without a calendering app. In fact, I've thought about buying a PDA that will sink with Outlook and Entourage. Any ideas?
  • Re:NOTHING! (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Eggplant62 ( 120514 ) on Saturday June 11, 2005 @11:30PM (#12792695)
    Rock on. I'm a very spur-of-the-moment type of person. I know where I need to be and when by memory, and I rarely forget. What I don't get are people who stay constantly busy. Why not just sit down and take a break for a while, vegetate on the couch, read a good book, chill out, SLACK OFF??!
  • by SuperBanana ( 662181 ) on Saturday June 11, 2005 @11:48PM (#12792760)
    I frequently hear discussion of the most wanted features, such as different calendar formats, integration with other handhelds, etc.

    How about integration with other calendar programs.

    iCal, Netscape Calendar, and Outlook- none of them actually work with each other (sorry, they DO NOT despite what anyone has told you; for example, an iCal calendar item's title won't show up properly in Mozilla Calendar.)

    It's pretty astounding that a simple file format like a frigging CALENDAR can't be standardized across calendar programs which all claim to be able to use the same...uh...standard file format.

    Most of the dependency on Outlook would be eliminated if all these programs generated the same invitation format emails.

  • Re:Outlook 2003 (Score:5, Insightful)

    by moosesocks ( 264553 ) on Saturday June 11, 2005 @11:58PM (#12792806) Homepage
    As much as I frown upon people posting without knowing all the facts, I will say this (from the perspective of someone who has dabbled in both)

    iCal in theory, will always be less bloated than outlook, simply because it has a more limited feature set --- read into this however you may.

    By its own nature, all iCal has to do is provide a rudiementary scheduling interface. Although the UI is beautiful and the program very useful, the future set is very basic. For people like myself who do not require the full capabilities of outlook and exchange, iCal is more than adequate. On top of iCal's very basic architecture, of course, you get neat features tacked on top such as automated reminders and web publishing.

    If you work in a big company and use exchange, quite simply, that extra code bloat in outlook is going to pay off bigtime, because you're actually going to be using that "bloat" to boost productivity. If you need the advanced workgroup features of outlook/exchange, chances are you're already using it.

    At the moment, for windows, Outlook 2003 appears to be the best calendaring/email application out there, regardless of wether or not you use it to its fullest extent. Although I love iCal for its simpliity and ease of use, I give major props to the MS development team for creating a damn good application. Considering the extra capabilities outlook brings to the table (wether or not they're actually necessary), Microsoft managed to do it with virtually no bloat. Outlook 2003 truly is an elegant application.
  • Re:When (Score:3, Insightful)

    by rsheridan6 ( 600425 ) on Sunday June 12, 2005 @12:12AM (#12792879)
    To use Emacs just for a diary would be overkill, but some of us live in Emacs and it makes sense to do stuff in that environment. Once you're already running Emacs, the diary is just a 1500 line extension that comes with it.
  • Re:So far... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by CausticPuppy ( 82139 ) on Sunday June 12, 2005 @12:13AM (#12792887)
    Beat that, Outlook 2003!

    Easy. Your method sucks at the office, when you need to schedule a meeting of about 10 people at a time when everybody is free (you need to look at THEIR calendars) and find a conference room that is available for that time period, then track RSVP's. And you have to assume that everybody else actually writes all their own appointments on their calendars.

    That's a LOT of phone calls, walking around to cubicles, and collecting post-it notes. And then you're gonna wind up fighting over a room anyway with the other folks who got there first.
  • by cbreaker ( 561297 ) on Sunday June 12, 2005 @12:45AM (#12793025) Journal
    "(Why would I? I'm on a Mac and I like having free space in my ram.)"

    Stop the insanity!

    I've got Outlook 2003 open to an Exchange 2003 server right now. My mailbox is about 1.3GB. I've got a few add-ons, too, such as the LookOut search tool. It's using 25MB RAM.

    It loads very fast, too.

    For what the application does (it's not just e-mail) I think 25MB is certainly very resonable. Where's all that bloat you mac users like to spread around about Microsoft and Windows and Office?

    Not liking the company is not a reason to lie about the applications they create. I hate Microsoft just as much as the next guy, but I really like Outlook and I look forward to when an OSS replacement app matches it. Evolution is very close, and I think in a few more revisions it'll be there. But it doesn't mean Outlook is crap. It's not.

    And why do you need all that free RAM anyways? I have memory in my computers to use it. Sure, every software developer could write software that uses almost NO memory. But then they'd all run like shit, too. No, I'd rather use all my RAM up if that means my apps run faster. Because, you know. THAT'S WHAT IT'S THERE FOR.
  • Re:Outlook 2003 (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Spetiam ( 671180 ) on Sunday June 12, 2005 @01:59AM (#12793254) Journal
    I use Evolution, and I've got to say... Outlook blows it out of the water. I like things to be free and open source, but Outlook (2003 especially) has no equal in the foss world. None. Fanboys can mod me down, but it won't change reality. Groupware and calendaring have a LONG way to go in foss.
  • Re:Outlook 2003 (Score:3, Insightful)

    by nihilogos ( 87025 ) on Sunday June 12, 2005 @06:33AM (#12793844)
    Doesn't *anyone* on slashdot run linux anymore?
  • Re:Outlook 2003 (Score:3, Insightful)

    by dbIII ( 701233 ) on Sunday June 12, 2005 @06:45AM (#12793866)
    At the moment, for windows, Outlook 2003 appears to be the best calendaring/email application out there, regardless of wether or not you use it to its fullest extent.
    I take it that by the fullest extent you mean a mailbox of 2GB in size just before the whole thing gets corrupted and needs to be recovered by third party tools - or is that "feature" finally dealt with?

    How may ways do you want to define where the signature file is today?

  • Re:Outlook 2003 (Score:3, Insightful)

    by hacker ( 14635 ) <hacker@gnu-designs.com> on Sunday June 12, 2005 @11:40PM (#12799776)

    Bugzilla, unfortunately carries the string 'Bug' in its title, and gets branded as a bug-only tool. I much prefer Mantis, and both tools contain a "Feature" item in the dropdown... report your "items" as a feature, and let someone else implement/comment on them. Not everything listed in Bugzilla has to be a "bug" in the system. Lack of a key feature can be seen as a bug by some users.

    But my post was actually "bait" to see if the OP had actually mentioned these feature requests anywhere but his rantings on Slashdot. If nobody with the power to implement them sees or hears about them, how does he know anyone wants them?

    I see this all the time with bugs that go unreported. It goes something like this:

    "How come you didn't fix this bug?"

    "Did you report it?"

    "No, you should know every open bug."

    "Please report it so we can track it and be accountable for it."

    "You suck."

    Unfortunately, that's the reality of the matter. If nobody wants to help by reporting bugs, adding their comments and feature requests, providing testing resources (especially on hardware or software that developers such as myself do not have access to), or by sending in patches... things don't improve.

    Many people complain that "Linux usability sucks", but they do nothing to try to solve it. The problem lies in both courts... developer AND user.

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