The Case for Free WiFi?

lgreco writes "Recently I was trying to convince a business man who is about to open an Internet Cafe, to provide WiFi at no charge. I argued about increased business and royalty and proposed that the infrastructure cost these days is reasonable and the recurring cost, along with the amortized payoff of the initial investment, can be recovered by adding a few cents to each beverage, etc. In spite of the numerous discussions on the merits of free WiFi v. paid at coffee shops, restaurants, etc, I was interested in hearing what do you think about the issue and if there are solid examples of successful businesses that offered free WiFi." If you were going to argue for or against this issue, what arguments would you use?

"A lot of proprietors seem to be concerned about the maintenance issue. Not so much about the hardware maintenance than software: auditing etc. Some are also concerned about legal ramifications if their customers are caught downloading music or movies illegally.

I am not aware of any Internet cafe or similar business that got hit by our beloved RIAA but what if their lawyers subpoena a small proprietor for download records? If you are running a shoestring infrastructure with a cable modem with an Airport base station what kind of logs could you possibly proviide? If a kid walks in for a lemonade and starts downloading porn what do you tell the parents when they sent their lawyer to pay you a visit?

It would seem that if you let a provider offer the WiFi service at your place of business for a fee, they can deal with liabilities, maintenance etc, so this is one less thing to worry about when setting up the business. Yet expecting your customers to pay $6-$10/hr for WiFi is so ridiculous and such a turn off for them."

If it is going to be an "Internet Cafe"...

[brunes69]

... then what is the difference between if the customers have free access to wired terminals, or if there is free WiFi?

The case against

[HyperChicken]

I do remember a coffee shop discontinuing free WiFi on the weekends due to people coming in, using the WiFi, hijacking tables, and not buying anything. http://wifinetnews.com/archives/005325.html [wifinetnews.com] http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/05/26/234225 6 [slashdot.org]

I'd suggest "free WiFi with purchase". Buy something and a WiFi access code is printed on your receipt good for an hour or two. The customers get what they want and the freeloaders can go else where.

Granted, it is a slight hassle for the paying customer, and I'm sure dedicated freeloaders will dig through trash to find half-used access codes (or eventually figure out how you're generating codes), but it's still better than smelly nerds hogging tables for head-to-head D&D play over the access point.

Free Wi-Fi?

[DotNM]

Wouldn't it be possible that people would come and use the free Wi-Fi instead of coming and paying to use the desktop computers?

Re:The case against

[Lemmy Caution]

There's a local cafe that is implementing that very system due to a problem with freeloaders. Seems reasonable - 10 dollars of purchases gets you 4 hours of time.

They had an "honor system" before, but it was abused.

Here's my (evil) argument

[demonic-halo]

You can setup a proxy server which will intercept http: traffic and insert ad banners into the web pages it serves.

common carrier?

[MasterD]

Is a coffee shop going to be held accountable if somebody sells drugs using the public phone next to the bathroom? Or discusses an illegal business deal at of their tables? Of course not, so why should they be help responsible for what people do over their Internet connection?

It's a losing proposition

[Sarojin]

unless you really enforce that people buy drinks while they're there. It may not be so bad once WiFi is ubiquitous, but as it is, frugal people (ie people that won't want to pay for drinks) will flock to wherever has it.

Re:The case against

[garcia]

Why would I go there when there are numerous other coffee shops that require nothing of the sort?

Less than a mile from my home is a Dunn Brothers Coffee shop and another mile from that is a Panera. Neither require a purchase to use their network but it's fairly rare to see anyone not at least having a coffee while they're there.

Open it up for all those that enter or suffer the consequences of those that can and do offer it free.

charging != no liability

[Myko]

Charging would not alleviate any liability that you mention, and would actually add more. By receiving money, they now have a vested interest in the actions of the customers and are more responsible than if it were free.

Arguments Against

[Ieshan]

While it's practically painless to set up these days, a big argument against WiFi in any business is the type of client you attract.

Remember that you're likely to attract businessy types too busy to do anything but work during lunch, or student/cheap types too cheap to pay for highspeed access themselves (and therefore, unlikely to spend $30 a month on coffee). Is this really the atmosphere you want in your business?

It also depends what type of netcafe you're opening. There are netcafes primarily for gaming, and those primarily for getting a cup of coffee while surfing the net. I've worked in one where people are basically gaming straight up, and the atmosphere is radically different than the local coffee shop.

If you want a social, living coffeeshop, I'd say cut off the internet access. People go to a coffeeshop to relax with friends, listen to jazz, or curl up in a comfy chair with a big book. As much of a netaholic as I am, there has to be a balance somewhere.

Re:Observations at a local Coffeeshop

[Pantero Blanco]

Instead of a solid time limit, you could just reserve the right to kick out people who haven't made a purchase in the last thirty/fourty minutes or so.

If I end up on the internet for an extended period of time at a coffeeshop/cafe, I generally make it a practice to keep buying drinks. It generally keeps the people running the place happy.

Re:common carrier?

[jellomizer]

Because computer are new and strange. Normal laws do not apply. Because it is with those magical computers that are thinking brains. Sience you own the thinking brain and it does illegal stuff thereforth you are responcible.

Re:Panera...

[ooby]

I think that by slightly increasing the cost of each other product to offset the cost of providing a free service that not everyone uses is very cost effective. When you go into a cafe with free WiFi, you never see a notebook in front of every patron. One can suspect that the bandwidth demand is small, so the proprietor of such an establishment would not need to spend extra money on a wider pipeline. You provide a feature few will use and everybody says, "They've got WiFi." They go there and think, "This place has WiFi, if I ever had a laptop and a need to check my email while drinking my coffee, maybe I'd bring it here."

Re:The case against

[Nugget]

What exactly is the "consequence" which would have to be suffered through? The absence of people who aren't going to spend any money anyway?

Why pay, when "linksys" and "default" are free?

[TomorrowPlusX]

There's a lot of coffee shops around me ( Washington DC ) which have pay wireless access. I've never felt the need to do so -- even though 90% of the time I spend working on my personal programming projects is done in coffee shops in the morning before work, and internet access would be helpful ( looking up documentation, etc ).

What I've done, instead, is ride my bike around to find coffee shops which either provide free access, or which are near or beneath offices with "default" or "linksys" WAPs without passwords.

In fact, it's gotten to the point that I know off the top of my head about a half-dozen free WAPs in my area which I can use. I see no reason to pay for access when I can just ride my bike down the street to a place where the inept sysadmins don't know any better.

In fact, at one of these coffee shops, ( Caribou Coffee, Pennsyvania Ave & 17th ) there was at one point so many unsecured WAPs that I had to use the "Air Traffic Control" Dashboard widget to select the one I wanted, since there were, literally, four WAPs named "linksys" running on ( I think ) channel 11. The Airport menu bar selector didn't work very well in that situation.

Charging for wireless is basically a fool's errand. Few will use it, and, I have to assume, you'll be lucky to make up the outlay for the service, unless you roll your own billing machanism.

Re:Observations at a local Coffeeshop

[earnest murderer]

I've been to a number of pool halls that basically require you to have a "beverage" at all times. If you are found to be empty you either have to buy another or leave. This seems to have worked out alright and is easy for customers to understand.

No tickets, recipts, servers, tech support or other crap to deal with.

I think a lot of people overlook this most obvious answer. That is asking the people in your shop that if they aren't going to buy anything, make room for someone who will.

Re:Panera...

[krgallagher]

"Panera has the largest (or one of) free wifi network out there."

Without wanting to sound like a drunk, I prefer my free wifi in bars. Goose Island [gooseisland.com] in Chicago and Two Rows [tworows.com] in the DFW Metropex are two great examples.

Re:common carrier?

[ScentCone]

They would probably manage to get a settlement out of at least one of them too.

Which is why it's so important to have legislation that shields people like manufacturers from the actions of their products' users. It doesn't occur to too many people to sue GM over the actions of a drunk driver, but political correctness makes it attractive to sue, say, gun makers when someone decides to commit a crime. There's legislation pending right now to prevent frivalous suits like that, and we can only hope that equal doses of rationality kick in for router manufacturers, coffeeshop owners, and so on. The "it's everyone's fault except the person who actually did the bad thing" nonsense has got to stop, and there's a little light at the end of the tunnel.

Leaches

[sterno]

It's a common policy of many coffeeshops I know of to have minimum purchase requirements. Even before the times of Wifi, cool coffeeshops were where a lot of the young and broke kids would hang out. Invariably they'd try to get away with buying a small cup of coffee then lingering for 3 hours.

The problem with codes or any sort of regulation of the access is that it creates a support problem. So you're slinging coffee and somebody gets a code that doesn't work. Now you have to take time away from making coffee and worry about tech support. It doesn't take too many things like that to screw up the cost/benefit of it. Does your barista know how to fix a WiFi network? Probably not.

Free WiFi became a popular concept because people don't demand much from a free service. If they log on and it doesn't work or it's slow they won't complain because they didn't pay for it. Those who can cope with it will use it and be happy, those who can't don't become a burden to you.

Re:Observations at a local Coffeeshop

[drooling-dog]

you're going to get people who campout on their laptops and take up table space for hours at a time.

I'm guessing that most people (myself included) go to coffee shops mainly to hang out there. Anyone who owns/runs a coffeeshop knows that table space is their critical asset, and they probably measure revenue in $/table-hour rather than by the product they sell. Therefore, why not rent the table space, and sell your coffee at a reduced or nominal fee? That way, anything that people do there is paid for, WiFi access included.

Of course, you'd have to resolve the sensitive issue of how to gently remind people that their time is up (or to pay for an additional hour). Perhaps an electric shock of progressive severity, or metal spikes rising out of the chair, would do nicely...

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:common carrier?

[D.A. Zollinger]

The pay phone is provided by the phone company. They may rent the space from you, but it is the phone company's responsibility and liability. An Internet connection is provided by the business owner, who might assume resonsibility and liability for actions taken by patrons who use that service.

On a side note, if a local ISP were able to find a way to make money off a free WiFi connection (earlier comments mention a proxy server replacing all banner ads), they would be able to absolve small shops of any liability by providing the service for them, and may be able to work out a deal where the ISP pays no rent for their service. The ISP would attract patrons with their service, and the shop owner would not have to maintain the system (one less hassle).

My experience (before WiFi)

[willwinter]

This reminds me of a time before wifi when I would go to a coffee shop at night that hosted some of the best bands in the local music scene. They would charge a low cover, hoping to make it up in bar sales. The majority of the young (pre-high/highschool) kids would go in and only ask for water, which was tap water on ice in glasses) and they would continue to linger.

One evening they switched to bottled water.

Now when a kid ordered water they got a $2.00 bottle of water instead of the free glass. Needles to say, the crowds dissapated a bit and atmosphere in the place improved as well. And the shop made more money than before.

So my opinion is to remember you are running a businness. Do what you need to do to have a quality product, provide a reason for people to be there in the first place, but don't ignore what will keep you in busineess. Freeloaders will not keep you in business.

Re:Arguments Against

[MrLee]

"If you want a social, living coffeeshop, I'd say cut off the internet access. People go to a coffeeshop to relax with friends, listen to jazz, or curl up in a comfy chair with a big book. As much of a netaholic as I am, there has to be a balance somewhere."
BAH! I don't know if I can disagree with this more. The coffeeshop that I frequent has all of the above AND a good number of customers who get online. There is almost NO gaming and NO JAZZ.
It's not a beatnick hangout for those with receding hairline pony-tails and Birkenstocks(oh, if you are reading this and are offended, good!) It's a coffee shop for people to get together or study or read or play games or get online!
Plus, since when do those type of people you described spend tons of money? Stopping in to get a half-caff soy latte with nutmeg on top before you catch the latest screening of Fellini's Satyricon does not break the bank!
Sorry, I meant that buying a small hazelnut coffee and a scone then reading Bukowski for four hours is NOT going to give any shop owner fat pockets!
Simply put, value added services like free WiFi can only help this type of business...when offered wisely!
My rant is finished! Be online or be damned!

You have to address the "bad customers" problem.

[arete]

If you have infinite tables, Free Services are great, and often better than metered services, because metering is a pain.

But you don't have infinite tables, and somebody sitting on your wifi for an hour with a cup of coffee might be LOOSING you money.

If I could wave a wand and create whatever system I wanted I would have BOTH. This way you get to have the best of both worlds.

A free system that had capped bandwidth (50k, perhaps) and was turned off during periods of peak patronage of the cafe. You start out with a sign that says "may be turned off during peak hours" - and then you turn it off whenever you're getting too full.

A paid system that doesn't have bandwidth caps or has much higher ones and never goes off. This should cost less than using one of your workstations, but not necessarily that much less.

Setting both up is pretty easy; just install two access points.

Also, if you're going to put in a nice system be sure to offer it to all your nearby business and residential neighbors to make a few extra bucks.

I am not a lawyer, but I don't think you have an obligation to keep those records. You have an obligation to turn them over if you have them, and an obligation not to selectively destroy them AFTER you know something bad happened. But I don't believe you are required to track all the details.

Re:$6-$10/hr?

[mrchaotica]

The cost of freeloaders is not bandwidth, but table space. I say just put up a sign saying "if we run out of tables and you're sitting there surfing while not having bought anything recently, we reserve the right to kick you out in favor of paying customers."

Re:Panera...

[tonsofpcs]

Panera prices were high enough [at least around here] in the first place to warrant the free service. If you would stop going there for 5 cents more on an item, you wouldn't have been going there in the first place.

Re:You have to address the "bad customers" problem

[dgatwood]

There's an easy way to solve that. Put your store across from a park and use a directional antenna to provide localized coverage with your business name on it. People can sit anywhere, not just in the coffee shop. Unless it's raining, a lot of folks will choose to sit outside instead, given the opportunity.

Even better, since the business name is on the hotspot AP, you'll draw in people from the surrounding businesses over time.

Re:common carrier?

[wkcole]

In the US, Internet access providers have repeatedly been deemed to NOT be common carriers by regulators, courts, and the Congress. Network operators are responsible for the traffic coming from their networks, no matter how ignorant of that traffic they choose to be.

One solution for that might be (and frankly, I hope WILL BE eventually) for providers of open wireless systems to wrap their networks with very strict firewalls that severely restrict what users inside can do. VPN, SSH, and maybe HTTP/HTTPS. If the users want to do anythingmore arcane than web surfing, let them 'go home' virtually and work through a tunnel where the free wireless provider isn't going to be on the hook for generating evil traffic of whatever type.

I own a cafe with free Wi-Fi

[cmause]

My wife and I own a little outdoor cafe in Tempe, AZ, and we offer free Wi-Fi. I work as a software developer during the day, and my wife runs our restaurant. We would have paid the approx. $35 per month to Qwest for a 1 Mbps DSL line anyway (to use our computer), and the DSL modem had the wireless router built right in. So why not offer it for free? I checked around to see what if any companies wanted to put in service and maintain it. The hassle factor was way too high, and I know my customers would have been irritated at the prospect of paying. For about $1 a day (I sound like Sally Struthers), I can get people in the door to buy my coffee, sandwiches and/or beer. When they're done surfing the web, they'll stick around for the live music. We don't get too many squatters. When we do, the server (the human who brings you your food, not the one that delivers HTTP content) just reminds the offender that the internet is free for our CUSTOMERS. I thought about a technological solution, but I think that the human touch works a little better. Generally people will buy something if reminded, rather than leave if they just get cut off. I get plenty of positive feedback from my customers about the free internet. On the other hand, I have never had anyone suggest that we start charging. There will be people who abuse anything you give away. We have had customers take handfuls of sugar packets and stuff them in their purses. We have kids take a dozen packets of crackers to feed the ducks (we're on a lake). I can't tell you how many times people have stolen our soap pumps out of the bathrooms. These are all things you have to put up with when you own a business that serves the public. But when you start nickel-and-diming people to death (gee, $1.50 for the coffee, plus 2 Sweet-and-Lows at 10 cents each... your total is $1.84 with tax), people get irritated and don't come back. And that's how people feel when you charge them six bucks an hour to surf the web.

Re:I argued about increased business and royalty

[bigman2003]

Okay- Royalty mis-typing aside...

The entire article just screams, "I have never owned a business!"

See, the businessman sees this as a potential revenue stream. If he wants to run a successful coffee shop, he is thinking about ways to make money.

Going to businesses that make money is great- because they will be around for a while, and are generally nicer to be in.

The coffee shop owner may be thinking: "I only have seating for 12 people. If 5 people sit here for an hour, sucking up my bandwidth...where will the other customers sit?"

Ever go to a coffee shop in a university town? It sucks. Students claim every table, and spread out their laptops, papers, books, backpacks etc. Then they sit there for hours nursing one drink.

Sure, it is great for the students- but what about the business? A lot of other customers are scared away. There are two coffee shops in the town I work (university town) that I have not stepped foot in for about 3 years, exactly for this reason. Even the local Borders Books suffers from this problem.

Making $3.50 per table every 2 hours will not keep them in business. It's all about getting drinks out the door.

Internet cafe? I want an Internet BAR!

[vertinox]

Seriously, I'd like an Internet Bar where I can bring my laptop and then drink alcoholic beverages. C'mon guys... Hurry up with the idea! I'm tired of having to bring my vodka flask to coffee shop.

Re:common carrier?

[Lulu of the Lotus-Ea]

Unfortunately, in the USA laws are not nearly so rational outside of computer usage either. For example, police and congresscritters with little respect for civil liberties have imposed draconian arrest and imprisonment of organizers of "rave" dances; with "facilitation" charges against, e.g. people who sell or give away glow sticks (i.e. under topsy-turvy fascistic thinking, drug paraphenelia).

Busts have included charges under the 'Ecstasy Awareness Act' (2003 H.R. 2962), or even RICO charges. Mind you, these aren't busts of people selling drugs, but simply of people who, e.g. rent spaces and audio equipment for dances where "drugs *might be* sold" by others.

So yeah, find a local DA or police chief who wants to run for statewide office, and it's not at all unlikely that a coffee shop gets raided for having a public telephone on which "drugs might be sold."

Re:Why pay, when "linksys" and "default" are free?

[timbob_com]

I seriously hope you are kidding, just because someone doesn't secure a connection you think that gives you permission to use the network? What kind of ethics are we going to have in 20 years when this mentality penetrates even further into our society?

You guys can't be serious, can you?

By your logic:
- I'm walking down the street and I see a bike leaning up against the wall, well as long as I don't go very far, and I am not gone long I can ride it to the store to pick up my groceries. The owner of the bicycle was "inept" in not securing so I deserve to ride it.
- My neighbor left his front door unlocked so I am going to sneak in and watch a little TV since he has HBO and I don't. I'm not going to take anything, just sit on the couch and watch Sopranos. Why would the owner of the house be upset? He left the door unlocked.

If we want to make the world a better place please start by not being a leech (on society, on others)

Re:Panera...

[falconwolf]

Moral of the story: Make wi-fi free and charge $10 for a beverage.

Charging $10 for drinks wouldn't be needed. To make it easy for a qick calculation, say the cafe is open 10 hours and sells 50 items an hour. That comes out to 500 items a day, adding 5 cents per item will mean $25 per day or using 30 days per month $750 per month in extra income. On to costs of providing the service. Say a server setup with WiFi is $2000, though an actual system should cost much less. Next is the internet access, again for ease say it's $100 per month. Next you need someone to maintain the system. If you're lucky there may be a 2600 [2600.com] meeting, User Group [computeruser.com]meeting, or other meetings can be found in the area where a person who's capable can be found that will be willing to maintain the system for say $500 per month. Including the system cost the first 14 month's cost would be $10,200 and revenue $10,500. By the fourteenth month the system is paid for and there after is extra profit. Now if sales increases the system will be paid off earlier. Of course this may not include all of the costs being as it was quick but the point is that it doesn't take $10 drinks to pay for WiFi service.

Falcon

Re:Panera...

[Skater]

Last Saturday, I went to lunch at Panera specifically because I knew they had free wifi access, and I needed to look some things up on the web (and couldn't wait until I got home; it's a long story). That's a meal that Panera probably wouldn't have sold otherwise. Surely I'm not the only one.

Re:Why pay, when "linksys" and "default" are free?

[Dun Malg]

But please, for the love of God, don't be pulling shit from IRC or saturating the connection with Bittorrents. If you need that kind of bandwidth, do it at home on your OWN connection.

Sheesh. What sort of dork downloads things on their laptop directly? Real dorks use the web interfaces for eMule or ABC to tell their computer(s) at home on the real internet connection to do the downloading. Who wants to sit around a coffee shop waiting for a download to finish before they can leave?

Re:I argued about increased business and royalty

[bigman2003]

Mr. Steele,

Good job...yes..those are the two (or 3 in the case of Cafe Roma. I don't know which location is worse, but I think the one by campus with the couches that sit out in the rain would be the winner).

My original point was that the businessman was doing what he thought he should be doing, based on his own business plan.

'Free Wi-Fi for Everyone' is not a necessary, or even desirable, part of all coffee shop business plans.

I used to own a print shop. Everyone told me I needed to have copiers, because it was so convenient, etc. etc.

They didn't realize that copiers cost a ton of money, and did not attract the clientele I was looking for. Grandma coming around and making her 10 copies each month was going to do nothing for my sales- yet grandma wanted the same level of service as customers ordering $10,000 of printing.

I made money, and grandma went to go drive my competitors nuts. I was very happy.

Some coffee shops thrive on the people who are going to sit there for hours, while others want to provide a nice atmosphere, but get you out the door a lot quicker.

Find out which ones are making real money, and emulate that.

If you are not opening your coffee shop in order to make money...then just invite your friends over to sit on the porch and drink coffee. You'll have a lot fewer hassles, and lose a lot less money.

Re:I argued about increased business and royalty

[Kadin2048]

Someone should mod the parent up.

Everything he said is very true: except in rare cases, just tossing an AP up in your coffee shop isn't going to do anything good for business, assuming the shop already has an established clientele. Especially in an urban area, where people can just sit on the street outside the door and get access, or across the street using a directional antenna, you might not get a single new customer from it.

However, if you are just starting up a business and trying to draw new customers, and especially if you're in an area that's not teeming with people, free Wifi might be a cheap way to attract and establish a customer base. You can always switch to a system that requires a receipt-printed code or something later, if the place starts to resemble an Internet addict's opium den. But if you're just getting started, there's not a whole lot to lose in trying: the investment is fairly minimal, and you might get some good customers out of it, depending on the demographics of the area.

Re:You have to address the "bad customers" problem

[stev3]

Mod parent up.

Being a college student, I know of all the local places that provide free WiFi, and I also know of the places that have net access outside of the actual building, and allow you to use it. These are the places that are consistently busy with people during nice weather, and it is a "free" advertisement for their business.

I'm far more likely to visit a business that is less restrictive (ie free unlimited WiFi) because I never know what kind of work (or play) I will be involved in when I get to a cafe.