Pre-Selling Domain Names? 104
Allnighterking asks: "Within the last 24 hours I've been the unwitting victim of a new practice by any number of domain registrars. The concept of pre-selling domain names before they expire. Go to any of the more popular domain registrars and start searching for domain names. You will find dozens of them for sale -with the date they will expire clearly listed-. In my case yes, I was negligent in not renewing. I also did not receive notice that it was to expire either. The day after it expired (or more like 8 hours after). I found out that I was no longer the owner of a domain I've owned for over 3 years, that this domain is now the 'property' of a domain squatter selling google adds on my hard earned search engine status. What can be done? Do we have any recourse?"
"Perhaps this is just another case of ICANN , you can't.
Apparently, the sale of expired domains is big business. See this google search for more. It leaves one to wonder what would have happened a few years ago when Hotmail expired. Would Microsoft have been stuck? Or would they be doing what I've been asked to do: pony up 20k to get my domain back!"
Just don't be an idiot (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Just don't be an idiot (Score:2)
Could owners trademark the domain names or make them unique enough to trade mark it? Then if a squatter buys it and wants 20k, have a lawyer type up a nice letter to them.
Re:Just don't be an idiot (Score:2)
register.com (Score:5, Interesting)
Godaddy works for me, and is less than a third of the price. They are the largest domain registrar out there now, and I don't worry about my domains at all.
Network Solutions is the devil. [therub.org]
GoDaddy exploits any lack of technical knowledge. (Score:3, Interesting)
GoDaddy is not trustworthy, it seems to me. It seems to me that GoDaddy makes most of its money by exploiting the lack of technical knowledge of most of its customers. The GoDaddy web site is so fully of ads that it is sometimes difficult to understand how to buy from them.
GoDaddy's web site is often slow. For example, as I type this it is very slow. GoDaddy wants to be a web hosting provider. Can you imagine choosing a host with a slow web site?
I agree with you about register.com.
Can anyone recomm
Re:GoDaddy exploits any lack of technical knowledg (Score:4, Insightful)
Godaddy has a lot of ads, and probably terrible support - but that's the trade off when you want to pay $8/year. And I've never had to contact support. When you buy a domain they even have "expert" links that'll skip all that crap.
Of course godaddy's web hosting is probably crappy. I don't see what that has to do with their registrar service.
Re:GoDaddy exploits any lack of technical knowledg (Score:1)
NetSol does have free DNS hosting with every domain, but for $50 a year I think it's a bit excessive when ZoneEdit does it for $10.95 per domain (and much less for multiple domains).
Like everything in the compute industry, the price depends on how much hand-holding you want.
EveryDNS for DNS (Score:2)
As will several other places.
On the subject of Goddady's support (Score:1)
things to say of their support
except for hosting.
They are quick to help
with most problems, though I now
host my sites elsewhere.
The shared IP of
hosted sites leads to being
RBLed sometimes.
Other than that, and
their awful website design,
I recommend them.
Re:GoDaddy exploits any lack of technical knowledg (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:GoDaddy exploits any lack of technical knowledg (Score:4, Interesting)
When SnapNames did get me a name, they registered it through BlueHill (who I hadn't heard of). A while later I decided to consolidate all my domains in one place, and BlueHill was actually the most responsive with the transfer request.
I had also made the mistake of registering some domains through Yahoo a long time ago-- a major pain to transfer the
Right now all my domains are with Godaddy (except for one with Netsol that I'll probably move away soon), but if they get difficult, BlueHill was responsive enough that I would try them.
Re:GoDaddy exploits any lack of technical knowledg (Score:2)
GoDaddy are also reported to terminate your domain on any complaint, and charge you hundreds of dollars to get it back. Even if that complaint is entirely frivolous. I've never used GoDaddy for various other reasons, but that's the reason I'd never consdier them.
I use tucows to manage my domains. Works great, but the setup overhead probably isn't worth it for fewer than ten to fifteen domains.
If you want an honest, full service registrar you're probably going to have to pay more than bargain basement pr
Re:Just don't be an idiot (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Just don't be an idiot (Score:2)
Re:Just don't be an idiot (Score:2)
I've used ET Webhosting [etwebhosting.com] for several sites, both for hosting and domain registration, and have no complaints. They send notification of impending expiration well in advance.
Re:Just don't be an idiot (Score:3, Informative)
BEWARE!!! Parent is plug for referral (Score:2)
RegisterFly.com (Score:1)
Re:Just don't be an idiot (Score:5, Informative)
They're also, as their name implies, quite cheap. $8.88/yr for domains, and another $5/year or so for WhoisGuard, if you want that. They offer many free services as well, like domain website redirection and good DNS management.
I haven't seen them do anything even REMOTELY duplicitous or sneaky.
Joker.com [joker.com] was my prior registrar. They are also good, completely non-sneaky, and inexpensive. They probably cost a little more than Namecheap does now, because of the decline in the U.S. dollar. I switched because Joker had nothing like WhoisGuard at the time. (I don't know if they do now or not.) I'm happy with Namecheap, but I'd use Joker again anytime.
I believe Namecheap is an eNom reseller, so they are a relatively small outfit, without the infrastructure of 'real' domain registrars, like Joker. The Namecheap site is better-designed and much easier to navigate, and they have a few features Joker doesn't. Joker can be downright cryptic at times. Everything works and does what it should, but the interface is 'early Linux desktop'... clunky and strangely laid out. Namecheap is extremely polished in comparison. That said, I've seen Namecheap's web redirects get squirrely a couple of times.
I used Network Solutions for many years, as well. They have a good interface and extremely robust infrastructure, but they're expensive. They're also complete bastards, and try to upsell you in unscrupulous ways. I suggest avoiding them. GoDaddy is another very bad outfit. And their CEO advocates torture. (he thinks we're not hard enough in Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib). I suggest never, never using them.
On the whole, if you're running a small to medium site, Namecheap may be one of your best choices. If you're running a big setup, particularly if the registrar is redirecting your website or hosting your DNS, you'd probably be better off with Joker's superior infrastructure.
Re:Just don't be an idiot (Score:2)
Re:Just don't be an idiot (Score:1)
Re:Just don't be an idiot (Score:2)
I just renewed 2 domains, and found I also had 2 expired domains that I no longer use. They were still on hold and register4less was waiting for the ho
mapname.com (Score:2)
It is amazing how many warnings you get from them as your domain names get close to expiring. They start warning you months before it expires and fairly frequently as the expiration date gets close.
The guys that run it are responsive and actually take tech support seriously.
There is usually some kind of sale going on, and you can also buy multiple "credits" at a discounted pri
Re:Just don't be an idiot (Score:4, Informative)
I can understand where you're coming from here... (Score:1)
Really... the last thing expiring domains need is one more "last-chance" for the people who fail to pay for their domain. The best solution, if you're really worried about keeping a name, is to buy a five or ten-year claim.
Re:I can understand where you're coming from here. (Score:3, Interesting)
When I first got my domains, I was lucky to keep them renewed on time (money was that short!). Now I keep them renewed so they never have less than a year before expiration. I'll probably up that soon, too.
I also have them registered through Directnic, which has gotten a lot of publicity recently because of their ability to stay online throughout the entire Katrina situation. They've treated me well and s
Re:I can understand where you're coming from here. (Score:2)
Q: When I buy a domain, who owns it?
A: If you purchase a domain in your own directNIC account, you are the owner (registrant) of the domain during the registration. directNIC is your registrar. You have the total control of your domain name and you can make modifications, transfers, or sell the domain name at any time during your registration
Re:I can understand where you're coming from here. (Score:1)
Had you bothered to even just read the write-up, you'd have seen:
That's one of your arguments out of the window.
Second, with pre-selling expiring domains, and no expiry-notification (although you could keep track of it yourself, probably), buying a 5 to 10 year claim only means you have a chance of losing your domain after 5 or 10 years, as opposed to the submitters 3 years. So I
Re:I can understand where you're coming from here. (Score:2)
That's a two-edged sword - 10 years from now that domain won't auto-renew on your [long since expired] credit card, and when the card has expired twice in the interim you might not think to go update the details on the registrar's site.
Re:I can understand where you're coming from here. (Score:2)
No I was not notified. Not a peep. Normally I would expect that the day of expiration, they would "cut me off" then I would have the 42 days to rebuy. (as outlined in the agreement I clicked to 3 years ago) Nope 12 midnight on the 18th of Sept 2004 I was cut off and at 8am on the 19th of Sept 2004, when I woke up and tried to get mail etc..... Someone else owned my do
Re:I can understand where you're coming from here. (Score:2)
Demand your RIGHTS under the agreement your registrar has with ICANN.
They cannot take your property 8 hours after it expires.
It expires and becomes available for registration by another person after the redemption period expires. It is not the property of your registrar, even though they would like that.
Start a venture! (Score:4, Funny)
The trick is to get it popular enough. The goal here is not to propigate this function on your own but get microsoft excited enough to steal the whole concept and wrap it in their latest browser. Now that tabbed browsing is finally being included who knows what comes next?
Re:Start a venture! (Score:2)
Re:Start a venture! (Score:2)
And yea, DNS goes against everything that is internet. Fixit.
Re:Start a venture! (Score:2)
Network Solutions just screwed us too (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Network Solutions just screwed us too (Score:1)
I know lots of people don't like Network Solutions, but if this really was the case, and you can prove it, you would obviously have a good case in court to have it returned to you. Sorry, but it just doesn't sound very likely.
And... er... if they *weren't* letting you renew it before it expired, why didn't you just transfer it to a different registrar?
Re:Network Solutions just screwed us too (Score:5, Interesting)
When this happened to me ... (Score:2)
Since then I haven't had a problem with them.
The only issue would be if you were NOT listed as ANY of the contacts (tech, admin or registrant). And in that case, I wouldn't let you change anything either.
Re:Network Solutions just screwed us too (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Network Solutions just screwed us too (Score:2)
But when you say "watching over our domains wasn't ever my job", then exactly whose job is it? I hate NSI like everybody else, but it's not their job to babysit your company's brand for you. If you never had clear ownership of the domain name then you should
Re:Network Solutions just screwed us too (Score:2)
Re:Network Solutions just screwed us too (Score:2)
-Rick
Re:Network Solutions just screwed us too (Score:2)
Link 1 [gigalaw.com]
Link 2 [gigalaw.com]
If I understood my lawyer correctly. You do have legal redress.
Re:Network Solutions just screwed us too (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Network Solutions just screwed us too (Score:2)
Re:Network Solutions just screwed us too (Score:2)
It's the same story with all the other forms of the .au domain (.org.au, .asn.au, etc). You have to prove registration of the name in question in real-world-land in order to register. I couldn't even register [myname].org.au, I had to register [myname].id.au, since I am not an organisation, but an individual.
I Believe . . . (Score:4, Informative)
Yes, there is a law against squatting (Score:2)
There is, it's called the 1999 Anti-CyberSquatting Act, or the more official name of Anticybersquatting Consumer Protection Act, or the even more official name of S.1948 Intellectual Property and Communications Omnibus Reform Act of 1999.
Too bad it doesn't cover the current scheme of patent squatting being rampantly performed by some companies with the excuse that they are doing it "defensively." Or does it? IANAL, but if it applies to names
Re:Ok, I'm going to be an asshole here: (Score:1)
"I forgot to pay my property taxes. I know about property taxes, but I happend to miss this years bill. I was kinda hoping that that meant I diddnt have to pay. Now there is an exiled Iranian General living in my house. Help me. Stay away from my cookies, Ishmael!"
The phrase "dumbass" is what came to my mind when I read this.
Re:Ok, I'm going to be an asshole here: (Score:2)
Re:Ok, I'm going to be an asshole here: (Score:2)
Re:Ok, I'm going to be an asshole here: (Score:2)
You don't own squat (Score:3, Insightful)
Not that this is going to make you feel any better, or help out in any way, but you never *owned* the domain name in the first place. IMO that's one of the major problems with the way the registry is set up in the first place.
If you own a trademark to the name you may (and I stress may) be able to get it back, or at least keep others from using the name (take it to arbitration???) but, from the sound of it, you're probably SOL.
Re:You don't own squat (Score:2)
That depends on who his registrar is. I use Gandi and I own the domain as long as I pay for it. In fact, it's the first sentence in the first section of their contract [gandi.net].
I don't understand how this story even got posted. If there was ever a non-story, this is it. Some guy lets his domain name expire, it's registered by someone else, and then he publicly gripes about it
Re:You don't own squat (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:You don't own squat (Score:1)
Re:You don't own squat (Score:2)
Re:You don't own squat (Score:3, Informative)
If you own a trademark to the name
If you've been using it for 3 years, and it's directly (or obviously) derivable from your business name then it doesn't need to be registered as a trademark to get the same protections under the law.
A trademark can be either registered with the PTO or it can be a commonly used word, phrase or graphic that people commonly associate with your business. Your domain name, being in use for over 3 years, would be commonly associated with your business by people who know of
Re:You don't own squat (Score:2)
What Microsoft would have done ... (Score:2)
Microsoft would pony up a LOT more than 20K to get Hotmail back ... and/or spend that much on lawyers too.
Re:What Microsoft would have done ... (Score:3, Informative)
If all else fails ... kick and scream. (Score:4, Insightful)
As far as what you can do, I suppose the going rate for bulk prevention is still about 16 times that of bulk cure.
Try to keep track of domain names and expiration dates. Consider consolidating domains if you own more than one. Renew early and/or for a longer time period. If nothing else, search the net and try to buy a domain
Verify the owner information with the registrar. For businesses the corporate owner or other company personnel should be listed as the domain owner. (NOT the company name or the name of an outside web designer) Remember this is the person who will be authorized to make changes, renew, etc.
Make sure that you're getting the registrar's emails. Don't give the registrar an email address you may not have in a few years. Add the registrar's domain to your email account's no spam list.
Oh and one more thing: Send a nasty email to your domain registrar from a throwaway email account. That ALWAYS works.
Owning a domain is NOT IP... (Score:2)
Re:Owning a domain is NOT IP... (Score:2)
Re:Owning a domain is NOT IP... (Score:1)
what are these google adds ... (Score:2)
Re:what are these google adds ... (Score:1)
Auto-renewal (Score:1)
Most registrars have an option to auto-renew your domain. Problem solved.
You Snooze - You Lose (Score:1)
HA!!
If your domain was so important you would have paid attention and not let it expire.
I have a bit of the same problem.... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:I have a bit of the same problem.... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:I have a bit of the same problem.... (Score:1)
It isn't even like I'm competing with someone for it... they've been squatting that domain for 4 years, ever since I purchased the .org equivalent of their .com!
From "How To Snatch Domain Names" (Score:5, Informative)
Here is a quote from an excellent article from Mike Davidson's Blog [mikeindustries.com] where he talking about how domain names expire:
"Contrary to popular belief, domains do not expire when they say they do. If the owner of a domain does not renew by the expiration date of the domain, the domain goes into "expired" status. For 40 days, the domain is in a grace period where all services are shut off, but the domain owner may still renew the domain for a standard renewal fee. If a domain enters this period, it is a good first indicator that it may not be renewed, but since the owner can re-register without penalty, it can also just be a sign of laziness or procrastination.
After 40 days are up, the domain's status changes to "redemption period". During this phase, all WhoIs information begins disappearing, and more importantly, it now costs the owner an additional fee to re-activate and re-register the domain. The fee is currently around $100, depending on your registrar. When a domain enters its redemption period, it's a good bet the owner has decided not to renew.
Finally, after the redemption period, the domain's status will change to "locked" as it enters the deletion phase. The deletion phase is 5 days long, and on the last day between 11am and 2pm Pacific time, the name will officially drop from the ICANN database and will be available for registration by anybody."
If this is true... (Score:2)
Re:If this is true... (Score:2)
Registrars "own" the domain, in the sense that they can themselves pay the renewal to Verisign, change the whois on the domain, and they sell it to someone else, all without it ever actually "expiring" at all. This is what happened to the poster. Registrars control the whois. Who the owner of the domain is is whoever they say it is.
Actually, it's even worse now. Verisign "auto-renews" the domains on their expiry date and charges the registrar for doing so
Re:From "How To Snatch Domain Names" (Score:3, Informative)
First you are correct. Second despite the print advertising this flat didn't happen if it had. I wouldn't have "Asked Slashdot"
Notification (Score:4, Insightful)
Since my episode, I switched to godaddy.com (I am not affiliated, just a happy customer). Godaddy emails me at 90, 60, 30, 15, 10, and 5 days until expiration, and even has an auto-renew option so my domains renew themselves.
Definitely check them out.
Re:Notification (Score:1)
Plus they are also very clear as of what the law grants me, the consumer, and what recourses I do have.
Re:Notification (Score:2)
BTW the day after I bought the same domain with the top 3 tld's since they were unowned (and known to me had
Re:Notification (Score:1, Insightful)
Then why the f is he wasting his time giving you advice for being a dumbass? Piss off, you irresponsible asshat.
Re:Notification (Score:1)
I've always liked assclown better. It just has a nicer ring than asshat.
I agree that domain names are not property, but... (Score:2)
Spammers, Typosquatters, (Score:2)
I let them expire as I don't really need them anymore, plus eNom's prices are a rip-off at $30 p/a, or $30 to transfer out. All my other domains are with another provider for $15 p/a, w
Looks Familiar (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Looks Familiar (Score:1)
Want some cheese to go with that whine? (Score:2, Flamebait)
You admit to letting your domain name registration expire. Where's the pre-selling?
As for those wondering where to find a good registrar, I have a small personal web site with Digital Space [digitalspace.net] with domain names registered through them. When the registration comes up for expiration I get email notice at 90, 60, and 30-days before the expiration date.
Seriously, OP needs to grow up.
Re:Want some cheese to go with that whine? (Score:2)
Learn to read. The time lag between my losing the domain and the other guy picking it up was 0. There was no "statis Period" as outlined in the agreement and noted by others. If the domain wasn't "valuable" then 42 days before possesion transferred I would have been cut off with time to say "oh Shizza" pay my "fine" so to speak and not bother
In order for the time lag to be 0 it had to be sold before it expired. You can
where have all the flowers gone (Score:2)
Back when the internet was just this weird old place full of academics, old-school hacker types, weird "cyberspace" early adopters and the few commerical institutions who had some kind of online presence were seen as strange little furry mammals slinking around in the shadows not bothering anybody? When you actuall
Re:where have all the flowers gone (Score:2)
So which registrar(s) do you trust?
Re:where have all the flowers gone (Score:2)
Gee, how low-tech (Score:1, Offtopic)
Boo hoo... (Score:1)
Then put the dates on your calendar and remind yourself a month ahead of time.
When you get reminded, renew your registration.
Done.
I mean, if your domain name is important enough that you will miss it when it's gone, you shouldn't be leaving it in the hands of anybody else.
True Domain ownership needs to be instated (Score:2)
Even if that registration expires you still own it, however in most places your now required to remove it from public streets. Even sitting in front of your house its illegal to have it on a public street.
Domains should be the same way, you own it from the moment its created. Registration is just
Maybe... (Score:1)