Repair Computer, Repurchase OS?

An anonymous reader asks: "Recently, I have been bit by a computer repair on an e-Machines computer that involved a system board replacement. Though this was strictly a repair, not an upgrade, neither MS or e-Machines will provide for activation of the system. Why should a user have to purchase another copy of XP after repairing a computer? The system board is listed on the e-Machines website, but costs 4x what an off-the-shelf board with the same chip-set/capabilities costs, and furthermore is not actually available. The e-Machines rep even said repurchasing XP was my only option. This seems to me patently unfair and of questionable legality. Is it possible that there are enough disgruntled consumers bit by this problem to generate a class-action lawsuit?"

Ask to talk to their manager

[halivar]

It's amazing what you can get if you just bitch enough. Sometimes it's easier just to add another activation to a license to shut someone up.

Read your license agreement.

[Anonymous Coward]

You should do whatever your license agreement says you should do.

If you can't understand your license agreement, get a lawyer to help you read it.

If you don't like what it says, get a different OS vendor.

And please don't mod me down for trolling - it really is important for people to understand the licenses for the stuff they buy - otherwise groups like the RIAA can walk all over everyone. If people started taking EULAs seriously and tried to understand them, more companies would start using reasonable EULAs.

Time for a new computer

[SeaSolder]

So, if the replacement MoBo costs about 4x what other boards cost, then it is likely in the multiple-hundreds of dollars to replace the thing. My suggestion would tell eMachines to go to "the hot place downstairs", and purchase a new computer from one of the larger manufacturers. You can get them relatively inexpensively, and hey, you could even get one loaded with that abomination called Vista! On another note, you could also repair the computer, and use it to play around with Linux. I have noticed though, that a number of the budget manufacturers don't even include recovery disks with their computers, but rather they have a "recovery partition" on the hard drive. So this is all well and good, until the HD crashes, and your recovery partition is gone. I suppose this is just another case of "You get what you pay for".

Just pirate it

[Rix]

It's less work.

Re:increments

['nother poster]

Well, since many motherboards also supply your network and video IDs then a MB swap changes quite a few "major components" as far as XPs key checker is concerned.

Re:Have you actually talked to Microsoft?

[Anonymous Coward]

I deal with this frequently.

Try to activate online
When it rejects and gives you the phone number, call it
Enter the confirmation ID

When you finally get someone from Bangladesh on the phone, they will ask if this is the first time it's been activated, and how many computers it's been installed on.

REGARDLESS of what work you've done, tell them "It's a reinstall after a virus infection.. This is the only machine it's installed on"

They'll give you a long ass number to punch in, and you're done.

Easy compared to what?

[babbling]

When you say it's "easy", are you aware that previous versions of Windows didn't even need a special key that depended on hardware, and that you didn't need to call Microsoft to ask "can I please install the copy of Windows I purchased from you a couple of years ago?" only to be interrogated about why you need a new key.

I'm sure it's easy relative to what they could put you through, but can we please be absolute when using the word "easy"? Especially when Microsoft have gone out of their way to make it more complicated than it needs to be.

Re:Solution can be found here:

[P3NIS_CLEAVER]

I had exactly the same problem with my emachine and instead of going through all the headaches I had a coworker burn me a copy of SUSE.

Re:increments

[Anonymous Coward]

You've only had to call for permission three times to use your own computer?

Sweet!

I can see why people like Microsoft so much!

Re:If you swapped the exact same chipset, then...

[Merls the Sneaky]

I have had no hassles upgrading my machine after numerous hardware upgrades. In fact i bought my OEM XP and the only hardware I have the same is my FDD. In order to buy an OEM I just had to purchase "hardware" I just told MS customer support I bought my XP with my FDD. Sure XP balks at the install the first time, I ring MS and I got the long ass code every time hassle free.

Re:Easy compared to what?

[n2art2]

You cannot be absolute with a relative word. The use of the word "easy" is an opinion and thus relative to the one making that opinion. I'm not a fan of Microsoft, but can we please not berate the grandparent for his use of the word "easy" when you obviously want to attribute it to a state of absolute that the word itself cannot attain.

Meaning. . . . Get over it.

Re:Easy compared to what?

[Buran]

Not only that but what about hearing-impaired people like me who find the phone an aggravation and want to be able to do it all online because it's a lot easier to read than it is to listen? Why can't we use the OS' automated activation tools? Why are we in some cases forced to call?

Seems to me like someone might have a good ADA case here -- why should I not be allowed to use something legally purchased because I am forced to jump through hoops that I can't jump through because of a physical disability? To me, this is as bad as a failure to install a wheelchair ramp.

Re:Just pirate it

[Anonymous Coward]

Unethical behaviour by one party does not justify reciprocation by taking illegal measures. Or put another way, although I know it sounds cliche, two wrongs do not make a right.

And yeah... it can often be hard work to do the right thing, and we might feel hard done by when someone does wrong by us, but who ever said life was fair?

Re:Not an activation issue

[C10H14N2]

Yep. A good number of people don't seem to grasp that by getting Windows pre-loaded, they've not purchased a Windows license, their manufacturer has, ergo why it is tied to the specific hardware and you don't get an install disk, you get a "recovery" disk, if anything at all. You can't "RE-purchase the OS" if you never really purchased it in the first place.

I wish they'd give the option of OEM install or blank system with retail box version, but nooooo, rather than your first act of ownership being spending an hour installing the OS, you end up spending an hour UN-installing all the crappy OEM bullshit, trialware and advertising.

Re:Easy compared to what?

[Anonymous Coward]

Isn't it great that the dishonest people with the pirated copies never have to worry about their activation keys? It's just the folks that do things the right way that get hosed.

Re:Easy compared to what?

[Marxist Hacker 42]

Second, such actions would not be necessary if people didn't make illegal, unauthorized copies of software to use, sell, trade, or give away. Perhaps if people were more honest, such things would not be necessary. Personally, I find it funny that anyone complains, as such things have been going on since the early 80s.

Perhaps we're basing our business model on a level of honesty that doesn't exist in human beings?

Re:Just pirate it

[Anonymous Coward]

It isn't wrong to make any reasonable use of something you bought. End of story. As for what constitutes reasonable use, common sense should apply. Ethical is surprisingly rarely coincident with legal.

Re:Just pirate it

[the eric conspiracy]

In fact the ease of doing the illegal thing is probably slowing the uptake of Linux. If Microsoft were to become even more aggressive in enforcing its licensing provisions, and as well increasing OS prices, we would no doubt see more people and organizations turning to Linux.

The trend seems to favor this; every time I see a news item on Slashdot along these lines I give a small cheer. Let's hope that MS and DRM really make stealing Vista a much bigger big pain in the neck.

It's like I said

[tkrotchko]

For all intents and purposes, there is no pirating of Windows XP. Yeah, sure, there is a handful of people who build their own and of those, a handful pirate Windows XP.

But if you have a Dell, HP, IBM, Lenovo, eMachines, regardless of what MS says about activation, that machine is licensed forever. It has to be, since none of those machines offers machines to the U.S. public without Windows. And yes, I'm aware of the Dell "N" series. I don't think it makes any difference.

That's the lie of the statement that 25% of all Windows installs are illegal. How can that be when almost every computer already comes with the license.

Re:Easy compared to what?

[Blakey Rat]

And what if halfway through the call, suddenly an asteroid falls into their living room and then their phone line is cut off!

Seriously, I know Slashdotters are anti-social and hate talking to people, but can the damned excuses. Either you can use a phone, or you can use TTY. You can come up with crazy situations all day long, but it all comes down to that.

Re:Easy compared to what?

[Gr8Apes]

>>but can we please be absolute when using the word "easy"?

Actually, speaking absolutely, it *is* easy. Relatively speaking (in relation to how we think it should be) is when it becomes difficult.

Actually, it's unbelievably complicated. Why do I need to call anyone when installing software? Needless complications imposed by the manufacturer is why.

Re:Easy compared to what?

[Buran]

And count on them to get something like this right? They won't. Besides, the whole point of online activation is that that's not necessary. Forcing calls is just unacceptable, and just adds one more reason on the "why I won't use their software" pile.

Re:Have you actually talked to Microsoft?

[WED Fan]

I smell serious BS on this one.

I have 3 machines with various flavors of XP. Each has undergone significant upgrade, update, repair in the past 5 years. At no time have I had to re-purchase the O.S.

I was able to move an install of XP from a dead desktop to a laptop and then a year later, back to a new desktop (I installed Linux, temporarily on the laptop before ditching it). All it took was a phone call each time and an explanation of why I was moving the install.

This person is, either:

• Lying about the whole thing in an effort to flamebait an MS discussion
• Bought the eMachine from someone with a pirated copy of the OS
• Purposely installed a pirated copy that he may/may not have paid for
• Is not diligent enough to actually deal with MS
• Is dealing with a brain dead computer store pseudo-geek (really, if they are that good, they can get a much better job, the computer store geek is to real geeks what MacDonald cooks are to Chefs)
• Just a liar

Even a /. editor should have spotted this one.

Re:increments

[Stamen]

Roll your eyes all you want, but the problems with Activation are twofold, one is it does nothing to stop most piracy, and thus is technically poor, and two, how many minor conveniences need to stack up before you people care.

Activation does very little to stop the vast majority of piracy. A 5 second Google search will give you a key generator that bypasses it all together. I'm absolutely sure that the guy in China puts the phone down, after being denied his new Activation key, and throws away the 100,000 copies of XP he just pressed in his garage. If you really want to do Activation, at least do it like iTunes does, allow you to unactivate a computer and reactivate it on another computer; why does MS care what computer it is on as long it is only on 1 computer. Technically speaking, activation is just lame.

Let's imagine that every piece of software you've bought followed Microsoft's lead: you reinstall your motherboard, or buy a computer, and you have to call the 27 different companies and ask for permission to please use the software license you've purchased on your new equipment; please, please, I'm not bad, I swear. Perhaps there will be "Software License Lawyers" in the future that will, for a fee, make your case to all of your vendors, why you should be able to use the product you bought on the hardware you want.

It truly amazes me what people put up with. Linux, FreeBSD, and OS X all don't have Activation; something to consider.

Re:increments

[Maxwell]

Let's imagine that every piece of software you've bought followed Microsoft's lead: you reinstall your motherboard, or buy a computer, and you have to call the 27 different companies and ask for permission to please use the software license you've purchased on your new equipment; please, please, I'm not bad, I swear. Perhaps there will be "Software License Lawyers" in the future that will, for a fee, make your case to all of your vendors, why you should be able to use the product you bought on the hardware you want.

You mean like IBM's UNIX and Mainframes have done for the last 30 years? It would be great to upgrade a z/OS machine and make as *few* as 27 calls....

JON

Re:Easy compared to what?

[Anonymous Coward]

The "no phone" thing is silly. What if you had no hands instead of being hard of hearing? My guess is that you'd demand to use the phone instead of the internet. Yes, using the phone is difficult for people with hearing disabilities, but no more so than using a stick in the mouth to work the keyboard to do it on the internet.

The fact is that diabilities make your life hard. Companies are required by law to make reasonable accomidations, but they can not make you whole again. A teletype operator is a reasonable accomidation.

Re:Easy compared to what?

[justfred]

Thus we have the inherent problem of most, if not all DRM - it makes things harder and more annoying for legitimate users, while crackers/thieves/mass copiers will easily find a way around it.

Personally I have less of a moral problem "stealing" things that are locked down, than things that are opened up. I pay for shareware and most of my entertainment. But having to jump through hoops to run Windows? That's why I recommend Unix or MacOSX. That and the fact that they're so superior.

Maybe Microsoft could spent more time properly engineering their software in the first place to make it worth buying, and less time trying to keep legitimate owners from "stealing" it?

Re:Easy compared to what?

[suckmysav]

"Personally, I find it funny that anyone complains, as such things have been going on since the early 80s."

Personally, I find it funny ironic that Microsoft attained their present state of near-monopoly on the backs of the very pirates that they are now working so hard to close down.

I find it even more ironic that they choose to be much more lenient towards piracy in the developing world where they have still not managed to attain the state of vendor lock-in that is required in order for them to successfully pursue more onerous anti-piracy measures without running the risk of turning their future potential customers towards alternatives such as Linux.

Microsoft, eating their cake and having it too!

Re:Easy compared to what?

[cheater512]

I know people who buy XP and then install a pirated version just because its far easier.

Re:Easy compared to what?

[marcosdumay]

What is kind of ironical (or dumb, you choose), since people pirate it regardless of protection. And pirated copies are better than original, since they don't require activation.

what is crazy?

[falconwolf]

Seriously, I know Slashdotters are anti-social and hate talking to people, but can the damned excuses. Either you can use a phone, or you can use TTY. You can come up with crazy situations all day long, but it all comes down to that.

Activation is what's crazy, along with WGA!!! Because of these, MS has forced me to switch to Linux and Macs.

Falcon

Re:Easy compared to what?

[Herby Sagues]

Easy compared to installing an operating system (ANY operating system). Easy compared to sending the machine for repair. Easy compared to fixing the machine or replacing the motherboard. Easy compared to installing Windows 95 (yes, installign XP is WAY easier than installing 95, even including the phone call). NOT easy compared to starting a discussion claiming that Microsoft has not given you a solution when you didn't even pick up the phone. You just waited for the tooth fairy to come and fix the problem for you.

Re:Easy compared to what?

[Anonymous Coward]

1. you did not legally-purchase anything, you exchanged money for the "license" to "use" some software, as allowed by the contract, until the issuer of the contract changes the terms of the agreement, under specific circumstances.

2. NO one has any right to interfere with corporate entities forming of law to suit them: we *gave* corporate entities the status of person-hood, and they are fundamentally different from "real"-persons, work around the clock, have lobbyists, etc, and therefore their subsumation of all rights/influence for their own selves is inevitable.

2b. they, corporate-entities, are *obliged* to shed anything that impedes quarterly-bottom-line, by *our*+their law, so any whingeing about thinks like
"record-profits+new-layoffs" or
"non-service provided to persons"
is either nonsense or red-herring: they are "obliged" to respect the "rights" of "human-persons" only so far as current practice requires, and current practice, which changes over time to less and less be deformed by non-corporate "persons", has no obligation to anyone other than who makes it. . .

3. us disabled persons are economically-costly, and just as no corporation can be required to serve non-profitable areas/regions, no corporation, in the end, ought to be required to serve us.

In the end, the controlled, conformant, and obedient population, is more useful, because it is most-efficiently converted to the obliged profit.

*Basic* economics shows that inclusive systems are less efficient than exclusive systems, and the "excluded" always whine, so what's the problem, from their perspective?

It's inevitable, it's just economics, and it's the world we wanted and made, so why don't we just accept and be happy?