Catch up on stories from the past week (and beyond) at the Slashdot story archive

typodupeerror

## Parent-Friendly Wireless Bridge To Span 500 Meters?558

GonnaBRichYeahYeah! writes "My dad lives down a dirt road 500 meters off the main road. The cable company will not put cable down his lane for any less than the ridiculous sum of \$10,000. And he cannot get phone line DSL since he is so far away from the central terminal, so he relied on painful 22k/sec dial-up for access to the Internet. He got sick of it and relies on Hughes satellite Internet, at \$60/month, but he still has to be connected to a phone line to upload to the Internet. It's not a good solution, but better than dial-up. His friend lives on the corner of the main drag with his lane and has cable, thus hi-speed Internet. I suggested that he get a wireless access point, and put it at his friend's house and then get a wireless card for access. The problem is that no wireless routers go that far (max range of -N is 200 feet) and WiMax is too complex for a 70-year old man. Any suggestions from Slashdot crowd would be helpful." Plenty of people make wireless links over longer distances, but often they're not suited for people who want simplicity and reliability. What's the best out there right now?
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

## Parent-Friendly Wireless Bridge To Span 500 Meters?

• #### Consider the do it yourself way... (Score:5, Informative)

on Thursday May 22, 2008 @12:11PM (#23507650) Homepage Journal
Supplies:
Hoe (one per helper)
500 meters of heavy duty conduit
500 meters of cable (recommend that you lay fiber at the same time)

Solution 1:
1a: Dig a long trench from the cable termination point down the dirt road to your father's house
1b: Dig a long trench from "the closest neighbour with cable internet" down the dirt road to your father's hose
Ensure that the trench is at least 18 inches deep, roughly 8 inches wide

2. Lay 500 meters of heavy duty conduit. Ensure that you are threading your cable through the conduit all the way along. Attempting to thread the cable AFTER the counduit has been completed may prove to be problematic.

3a: Call the cable company to connect the cable to the cable termination point. Begin paying monthly subscription to cable internet provider.
3b: If you've chosen to run the connection to your neighbhour's home, ensure that you don't piss him/her off. They are now your cable internet provider.

4. Profit \$\$\$
• #### Re:Consider the do it yourself way... (Score:5, Funny)

on Thursday May 22, 2008 @12:14PM (#23507708) Homepage Journal
Oh yeah...
Don't forget to fill the trench after you've installed the conduit!

Failing to do so, may turn this solution into a bigger problem than simple "internet access"...
• #### Re:Consider the do it yourself way... (Score:5, Funny)

on Thursday May 22, 2008 @02:23PM (#23509780)

Don't forget to fill the trench after you've installed the conduit!
Failing to do so, may turn this solution into a bigger problem than simple "internet access"...
You sure about that? Having a moat would be cool!
• #### Re:Consider the do it yourself way... (Score:5, Insightful)

by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 22, 2008 @12:19PM (#23507826)

Supplies:
Hoe (one per helper)

For 500 meters?!?

Christ on a cracker.. rent a ditch witch [ditchwitch.com]!
• #### Re:Consider the do it yourself way... (Score:5, Insightful)

on Thursday May 22, 2008 @12:33PM (#23508068) Homepage Journal
I agree that digging this ditch 'the old fashioned way' would take a large amount of time.

If it were me, I'd probably bring in a contractor to do it.

If you do consider this route, get local utilities to locate underground services for you - so that you don't accidentally dig up power/water. You shouldn't - we're talking a foot and a half, but...
• #### Re:Consider the do it yourself way... (Score:5, Informative)

on Thursday May 22, 2008 @02:05PM (#23509522) Journal

If you do consider this route, get local utilities to locate underground services for you - so that you don't accidentally dig up power/water. You shouldn't - we're talking a foot and a half, but...
On that same note, how does one go about registering their home made conduit with http://www.call811.com/ [call811.com] (which routes you to your State's "One Call" center)

And they recommend calling before you do any digging.
Better safe than sorry.
• #### Re:Consider the do it yourself way... (Score:5, Informative)

on Thursday May 22, 2008 @04:53PM (#23511870)
Cables are generally run using a "Ditch WItch" or some other piece of trenching equipment. You can rent them just about anywhere and they can finish a 500m job in a couple of hours.
• #### Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

Uh huh. Then there's the little matter of getting the right-of-way. I don't imagine that all that 500 meters is on their property.
• #### Re:Consider the do it yourself way... (Score:5, Funny)

on Thursday May 22, 2008 @12:50PM (#23508354)
Witches and hoes.

Aww yeah.
• #### Re:Consider the do it yourself way... (Score:5, Insightful)

on Thursday May 22, 2008 @02:11PM (#23509618) Journal

One assumption you are all making is that he owns all 500 meters of the land between his place and his friend's place.

If you want to go the wireless route, I've had good luck with the antenna "amplifier" I built from this site. [freeantennas.com]

• #### Re:Consider the do it yourself way... (Score:5, Informative)

on Thursday May 22, 2008 @02:47PM (#23510180) Journal
Wow this is getting expensive! Renting equipment, hiring contractors... just diy long distance wifi [slashdot.org]

don't people google anymore before asking /.? This has even been on /. before [slashdot.org].
• #### Re: (Score:2)

Corollary: What he said.. only rent a backhoe to do your digging.

David
• #### Re:Consider the do it yourself way... (Score:5, Informative)

on Thursday May 22, 2008 @12:25PM (#23507944)
Forget the backhoe what he needs is a Ditch Witch [ditchwitch.com]. We had the same issue in Oregon, we lived on 280 acres and lived 1/2 a mile from the main road. It really is your only option if you are going to live in the boondocks.
• #### Re:Consider the do it yourself way... (Score:5, Informative)

on Thursday May 22, 2008 @12:21PM (#23507862) Homepage Journal
I was going to suggest a pair of WRT54GL [amazon.com]s running Tomato [polarcloud.com] with some 15dBi antennas [amazon.com], but ethernet like that is going to be a much more reliable solution, if a bit harder to install.
• #### Re:Consider the do it yourself way... (Score:5, Interesting)

<jwsmythe@jwsmytS ... com minus distro> on Thursday May 22, 2008 @12:53PM (#23508412) Homepage Journal

I just emailed him, but .... you're right.

I actually did this before. It was with a pair of WAP11's (current at the time), a 24dBi parabolic, and a 19dBi panel. It was 100% reliable, except for a few circumstances.

After a year, a bamboo tree grew up through the line of site.
One end was in an office, and the WAP11 would overheat because the A/C was turned off on the weekends, and the cleaning crew would shut off the fan blowing on the AP.
In one strong wind, I found I hadn't secured the antenna well enough, and it turned. :)

They were all easy, obvious problems.

In his case, an AP with a high gain antenna on one end, and a decent antenna on the distant end attached to his wireless device would be fine.
• #### Re:Consider the do it yourself way... (Score:5, Informative)

on Thursday May 22, 2008 @02:38PM (#23510024) Journal
A couple years ago I was looking to do something similar. A bit of research shows that it's actually fairly easy to do, and with remarkably long ranges. Pretty much anything roughly parabolic will do, and a satellite dish is a great way to start. Here's a post with several useful links: http://www.seattlewireless.net/pipermail/dev/2003-June/012784.html [seattlewireless.net]
• #### Re:Consider the do it yourself way... (Score:4, Informative)

on Thursday May 22, 2008 @07:55PM (#23513246) Journal
And.. with your extra-directional antenna and boosted signal, you fried someone?

I mean.. You did consult the FCC tables for uncontrolled exposure at 2.4 GHz when setting up your little science project, right?

Of course you did. Or they wouldn't have approved your license request to run an experimental, (i.e. modified to no longer be type-accepted), (and ERP>1W ) setup in the 2.4 GHz band.
• #### Re:Consider the do it yourself way... (Score:5, Informative)

<jwsmythe@jwsmytS ... com minus distro> on Friday May 23, 2008 @12:22AM (#23514480) Homepage Journal
dammit, I wrote a long reply, but my browser crashed. That's what I get for using Windows on occasion. :)

Yes, I consulted the charts, and even did the math myself to confirm that the charts were right. :)

a 20mw transmitter and 24dBi antenna puts it .5dBm below the FCC max for a point to multipoint application. Since this was point to point, they have higher tolerances, which still is fine.

Now, my 200mw transmitter with the 24dBi antenna is a wee bit against FCC rules in theory, but with loss in the cables, it may just be at the limit.

Since they were very directional antennas, it was a fairly safe bet they'd never notice anyways. Sitting behind either antenna, I could hear the signal (encrypted, of course). Standing on the ground immediately under the antenna, still with a clear view of the remote side, I couldn't detect it, nor anything at that particular frequency. I even did that with the 200mw transmitter and a 4.5dBi antenna. Only being maybe 15 feet or so below the real antenna was enough to be outside of the beam of the more diverse antenna.

• #### Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

I think WRT54GL with a 500mW booster may do the trick.

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.12215 [dealextreme.com]

Not sure if this is a gimmiky product or if it will really work.

• #### Re:Consider the do it yourself way... (Score:5, Informative)

on Thursday May 22, 2008 @12:22PM (#23507886) Journal
I think you might be working too hard.

Cable is considered low voltage, so in some states it does not have to be buried 18 inches. Also why would you dig a trench 8 inches wide? Rent a small trencher, it make about trench about 3-4 inches wide. Use a trench shovel to clear out the trench.

Also, if you are using PVC, if you pull the line through as you are gluing the conduit together, you stand a great chance of gluing your pull string in place. Best thing to do is to shoot a mouse through the pipe (a mouse is a special plug that almost exactly fits a conduit that you attach a very light weight pull string to. On the other end you use a shop-vac to suck it out).

I would also have a pull box installed every 100 meters. 500 meters would be one heck of a pull.
• #### Re:Consider the do it yourself way... (Score:4, Informative)

on Thursday May 22, 2008 @12:28PM (#23507982)
pullbox every 30m if you're a stickler for EIA/TIA/BiCSI standards
• #### Re: (Score:3, Informative)

by Anonymous Coward
...and don't forget to pull a spare length of pull-string with the cable!

New capacity, repairs, new technology (fiber?), etc. There's not much more frustrating than having to completely redo a good cable run 10 years down the road because someone neglected to pull a spare strand of string.

Also, responding to someone further up, just because you aren't required by code to bury your conduit 18" or more doesn't mean it's not a really good idea to do so. When someone decides to develop the acreage next do
• #### Do it like Cox. (Score:3, Informative)

The guy who serviced my house had what looked like a big pizza cutter on a stick. It buried the cable about two inches deep.

Conduit is neither required nor used for cable and phone in a residential setting. If you break it you patch it. This is simple and low cost.

• #### Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

500 meters? unless you're using fiber and a pair of switches that support FDDI tranceivers, you can't do it. No ethernet standard can go that far. You'd have to bury a repeater (at least 1) half way between the 2 points... and get power to that repeater. Of course, this is all dependent on you owning all the property betwrrn yours and his, and getting the apporpriate permits to drop the cable across a property line.

Since cables, even fiber, don't come in 500 meter lengths (1000' is standard for a box.
• #### Re:Consider the do it yourself way... (Score:4, Interesting)

on Thursday May 22, 2008 @12:48PM (#23508316) Journal

Cable is considered low voltage, so in some states it does not have to be buried 18 inches.
I've noticed here in Illinois the cable companies stopped burying cable all together. They just lay it along the ground.

Just the other day I saw two geniuses from Comcast running cable through the lawn of my condo complex. I'm just waiting to see what happens when the landscapers come by to mow the lawn. I hope they don't charge \$10k to do that.
• #### Re:Consider the do it yourself way... (Score:4, Funny)

on Thursday May 22, 2008 @01:09PM (#23508654)
keep watching - aroudn where i am that is standard for the tech whom is reparing serivce.. they will run it on top and leave slack.. then a few days later a contractor will come by and bury it 2-3in with a (some odd looking tool)..

but it allows them to get service up to you now and bank on you not mowing your lawn for a few days..

what is fun is when that contractor never shows up.. and told the cable company he did..

i had a similar issue with my power last year.. one of the 120v legs went bad.. so they slapped a transformer on the side of my house -next day techs came out and identified where the leg was bad.. ripped up part of my neighbors driveway to fix the cable.. told them a contractor would come by in a day or so to poor a new patch slab... two weeks later the neighbor is pissed and the power company says it has beenfixed.. all because a contractor never bothered to do the job and jsut said he did it...
• #### Re:Consider the do it yourself way... (Score:4)

on Thursday May 22, 2008 @06:55PM (#23512862) Journal
I came home tonight and guess what? They had started to bury the cable. So far it only goes as far as the sidewalk. Let's see what tomorrow brings.
• #### Re:Consider the do it yourself way... (Score:5, Funny)

on Thursday May 22, 2008 @12:56PM (#23508456)
Of course the low tech solution would be to tie a string to a real mouse and put some cheese on the other end.
• #### Re:Consider the do it yourself way... (Score:5, Informative)

on Thursday May 22, 2008 @12:26PM (#23507954) Homepage
2. Lay 500 meters of heavy duty conduit. Ensure that you are threading your cable through the conduit all the way along. Attempting to thread the cable AFTER the counduit has been completed may prove to be problematic.

nope. spool of string, a soft poofy to tie on then fo string that fits easily in conduit and a wet-dry vac. works great. I suggest pulling a string along with the wire so you can easily re-do it later or add another wire.

BTW: 1500 feet of cat 5 does not work well for ethernet. get a pair of sdsl modems and put one at each end of the wire and you can go for 20 miles.
• #### Re: (Score:3, Informative)

As the cat5 ethernet standard says 100 metres distance limitation, 5 times that length is not going to work.
• #### Re: (Score:3, Informative)

You have proof of that? because I have solid proof that it in fact does "work". do I get 100bps? no. but I DO get a connection and I do get data transfer. just not reliably. What the "spec" says and what happen in reality are two very different things.

I have tried this on two seperate occasions. One worked decently (300m)Util humidity changes caused connection and data loss. Both situations dirt cheap used SDLS modems off ebay solved the issue. in fact one we used 4 SDsl modems and bonded them at the
• #### Re:Consider the do it yourself way... (Score:5, Informative)

on Thursday May 22, 2008 @02:04PM (#23509500)
For this type of installation it might be simpler and cheaper just getting two smartswitches with mini-gbic or built-in 1000base-LX port. Cheap, consumer-grade stuff with trivial configuration, good for 5km, and using fibre you avoid any possible grounding issues between the houses.
• #### Doing it professionally for \$10K (Score:5, Informative)

on Thursday May 22, 2008 @12:28PM (#23507986) Homepage Journal
There are companies out there who will do a professional job of installing fixed-wireless from point A to point B.

You may want to pay your neighbor for a utilities easement to either run a cable down his property or install point A for fixed-wireless on his property. Then, pay the cable company as normal for them to connect Point A to their hookup. You will also need to get electrical service. The up-front costs won't be cheap but it will be a lot less than \$10K.

If there are several neighbors affected, you may want to form a co-op or contract with a company who will own the easement.
• #### Re:Doing it professionally for \$10K (Score:5, Informative)

on Thursday May 22, 2008 @03:35PM (#23510838)
Or you can do it yourself for \$318 [boingboing.net]
• #### Re:Consider the do it yourself way... (Score:5, Funny)

by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 22, 2008 @12:31PM (#23508028)

Hoe (one per helper)

The mark of true friendship is helping you lay cable even when you don't hire them prostitutes in return.

• #### Re: (Score:3, Informative)

But .....

1. Make sure you have permission from the land owners to dig the trench and lay the line.

2. Stay away from the state/city/county right of way, or the next time they work on something your line will be torn up.

3. ???

4. Profit
• #### Re:Consider the do it yourself way... (Score:5, Informative)

on Thursday May 22, 2008 @12:35PM (#23508102)
Why not just get an aircard? You can get wireless EVDO routers like this one from keyocera. http://www.evdoinfo.com/content/view/264/63/ [evdoinfo.com] Or even get a pci to pcmcia adapter, this will allow you to use one in your PC. They sell them at newegg for under \$20.00. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815124021Y [newegg.com] I used a Verizon air card for over a year and ran a 5 computer network off it. I had to use an external antenna as I had no signal with my pc on the floor in the corner of my room.It was made by Wilson they call it their "Trucker Cellular Antenna" http://www.wpsantennas.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=3 [wpsantennas.com] It cost me 100 bucks but was well worth the investment. It wasn't cable but it sure beat dial-up. I now have a wireless setup that uses Motorola Canopy technology that rocks!!!
• #### Re:Consider the do it yourself way... (Score:4, Interesting)

on Thursday May 22, 2008 @12:37PM (#23508134)
You forgot get permits and right of way access to even begin doing this. Thats why people use wireless. Not to mention the cost (includes labor x your_time) of doing this would crazy compared to getting two directional wifi antennas and a couple of routers.
• #### DIY vdsl/aerial cable (Score:4, Informative)

on Thursday May 22, 2008 @12:53PM (#23508418)
Just run phone quality twisted pair (cat 3) if you have adjacent land or can get permission from any adjacent land owners. Just buy low cost VDSL Ethernet bridges, they can be obtained for less then \$200. Also 2000 ft of cat 3 can be obtained for less then \$200 (just bridge two 1000ft spools vdsl doesn't care).

Then go aerial, affix the cat 3 to a wire (for support) and put a 10 ft pole every 10 meters or so. Aerial is most likely the easiest to install, maintain, and upgrade. It also allows for the running of coax for a future cable tv install that will require additional amplification to reach your fathers house.

The nice thing about running cat 3 is vdsl has a nice upgrade path to 100 mbps and beyond.
• #### Re:DIY vdsl/aerial cable (Score:4, Funny)

on Thursday May 22, 2008 @02:06PM (#23509548)
Then go aerial, affix the cat 3 to a wire (for support) and put a 10 ft pole every 10 meters or so.

For 500 meters? Better have some good lightning protection, or things will get exciting first time a thunderstorm comes along.

• #### Run a string through it as well (Score:3, Insightful)

When you're running conduit, it makes sense to run a string through it at the same time. That way you can pull another cable (and another string) through later if needed.
• #### Re:Consider the do it yourself way... (Score:5, Informative)

on Thursday May 22, 2008 @12:58PM (#23508488)
I hope you understand (before digging) that the range limit for ethernet (even cat 6) is 100 metres. And 100BaseFx (ie fibre) is 400 metres.

Howeverm if you lay multimode-fibre then you can get a length of 2km out of it. I have no idea what kind of routers you'd need to make that work, but I guess they'd be expensive.
• #### Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

What about this: run some electrical cable down the pipe in parallel with the signal cable (assuming ethernet/Cat5/6 here). Every 100m, install a cheap hub. Since each hub will only be drawing a few watts, the voltage drop, even over 500m, will be quite small (14AWG has a resistance of about 4Ohms over 500m). This would allow you to run ethernet the entire distance while keeping costs down.

I know you're all about to scream "don't run power in parallel with data", but hear me out. I never said to use
• #### Re: (Score:3, Informative)

Single-mode is the long haul stuff, not multi-mode.

You need:
1. Power at both ends of the line
2. a ditch with conduit
3. a spool of single-mode
4. a professional with the tools to terminate the ends of the fiber
5. two single mode to ethernet media converters, http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?EDC=884092 [cdw.com]
• #### Proper Antenna (Score:5, Informative)

by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 22, 2008 @12:14PM (#23507716)
Just get a proper directional antenna to replace the one on the router. Do the same for your neighbor and link'em together I got one when I was living back Prague and connected with a 200kb/s link to an access point about 300 meters away (that was the speed of the connection - not the actual link). Actually, it's quite common for people to construct neighborhood networks that way (well at least in CZ)

• #### Re:Proper Antenna (Score:5, Informative)

on Thursday May 22, 2008 @12:34PM (#23508078)
We've done 5 mile links with a pair of *old* wallmount AT&T Wavelan bridges and proper antennas on 915 Mhz. Those units were 400mw.
Ticking along for years. 2 MBPS, faster than T1 speed. And proprietary FHSS, no freeloaders. Heh.

You have to get the antenna up above the fresnel effect and any obstructions at the frequency in use, about 60' for 915 Mhz, more like 30' for 2.4 Ghz. Which is why 2.4 Ghz is easier. I would have no problem running that link at either frequency. It'll work fine.
You can do it. No problems at all.
Give good attention to the antennas, that's what you need to get it to work.
• #### Re:Proper Antenna (Score:4, Informative)

on Thursday May 22, 2008 @01:45PM (#23509252) Homepage
The Zillertal Valley in Austria has a 54 MBit/sec WLAN network, that just uses WLAN-antennas on all the mountain tops. The antennas bridge up to 15 mls (25 km), even though they use classic WLAN, just focussed to a beam to the next mountain top. The antennas are mostly from Alvarion [alvarion.com] (ex BreezeCOM).
• #### Such antennas are cheap and small. (Score:5, Informative)

on Thursday May 22, 2008 @02:21PM (#23509762) Journal
We've done 5 mile links with a pair of *old* wallmount AT&T Wavelan bridges and proper antennas on 915 Mhz. Those units were 400mw.

Such antennas are cheap and small, too. Under \$100 in singles at a number of companies with online ordering facilities.

A 24db skeleton-parabola can get you miles of range even without a high-gain antenna on the other end, and is about the size of a UHF TV antenna. (I know one guy who war-scans the business district of San Francisco with one - from his apartment deck in Berkeley. B-) ) With antennas on both ends you should be able to go with the little lozenge types.

To give you an idea of range: My Nevada house is about 5 miles from the cell tower where the local WiSP has its POP, with a directional antenna pointed generally my way. His customers normally use a lozenge antenna with built in AP mounted on an outside wall, and I'll probably do that when I sign up (because my computer room is on the far side of the house). But my picture window faces the tower and my laptop catches the ID beacon just fine sitting in my lap using the builtin antenna.

So for a half-mile putting an AP in each attic and even a low-gain external antenna on the roof or outside wall should do the job just fine.

Want a cheap do-it-yourself high-gain directional antenna? Get a big wok strainer (woks and their strainers are pretty good parabolas), put a USB-stick WiFI adapter on a USB extension cord, and mount it with its backside at the focus of the strainer. B-)
• #### Re: (Score:3, Informative)

I have done well over 500 yards many times. In one case obstrusted with masts, and over water. I used the wrt54gl with Thybor firmware, and Hawking a Antenna http://www.hawkingtech.com/products/productlist.php?CatID=32&FamID=58&ProdID=152 [hawkingtech.com] (no problem outside) and amplifier http://www.hawkingtech.com/products/productlist.php?CatID=32&FamID=72&ProdID=187 [hawkingtech.com] with no issues at all. Well under \$400 and 1 hour of time.
• #### Did he lose his marbles? (Score:5, Funny)

on Thursday May 22, 2008 @12:15PM (#23507720) Homepage
"WiMax is too complex for a 70-year old man." At what age does WiMax dementia set in?
• #### Re:Did he lose his marbles? (Score:5, Funny)

on Thursday May 22, 2008 @12:44PM (#23508262)
If your folks can understand WiMax, you may want to mod your parents up

[Ducks]
• #### From Engadget... (Score:5, Informative)

<neo@arctic.nUUUet minus threevowels> on Thursday May 22, 2008 @12:16PM (#23507748)
• #### Re:From Engadget... (Score:5, Informative)

on Thursday May 22, 2008 @01:02PM (#23508530)
Its the HD26200 from HD Communications Corp. I went to Engadget to find this myself. Its the \$318, 5 mile solution that only requires a line of sight. The HD26200 is made up of two high performance Ubiquiti network radios with integrated 17dbi dual polarity antennas that are configured in wireless bridge mode. The HD26200 bridge is also powered over ethernet, so no RF cables are required, only an outdoor CAT5 cable to bring both data and power to the radios. HD Corp also has non-line of sight outdoor products.
• #### Doable with 802.11g (Score:5, Informative)

on Thursday May 22, 2008 @12:16PM (#23507754) Homepage
500 meters is about 1,640 feet. I do that to my parents place now. I just got two Linksys routers running dd-wrt and two good outdoor antennas. With dd-wrt I cranked up the radio output a bit and have no problem getting full throughput over about that same distance.
• #### Legislation? (Score:3, Interesting)

on Thursday May 22, 2008 @12:17PM (#23507784) Homepage
Check local legislation. Where I live, the government must provide electricity, water, and telephone service to any legal building built, no matter how far into the boondocks it is built. I don't know if the law specifically applies to high-speed internet access, but I'm fairly confident that a good lawyer could make it seem that way.
• #### Re:Legislation? (Score:5, Insightful)

on Thursday May 22, 2008 @12:52PM (#23508378) Homepage
Reeally? If you build a cabin in the woods, the gov't has to come dig you a well? Something tells me you haven't looked into this local legislation as deeply as you think you have.

Where I live, if you don't live in town, you pay the electric company to plant poles to deliver the power. You pay the well digger to dig you a well. And you pay the telephone company to string some line along those electric co. poles. If you don't like the above, you sit in the dark and use an outhouse.
• #### You can use wireless (Score:5, Informative)

on Thursday May 22, 2008 @12:18PM (#23507790) Homepage
I live near lax, but my building has really old wiring and i can't get dsl at this location, but i'm a mile from the office and once on the roof i found i had line of sight. I bought two wireless access points from ascendance, I bought the heavy ones cause i wanted to use the high performance radios so i can get 100mbit. (i work for an isp and i was able to just bring it right into my colo. But if you get http://www.ascendance.net/storefront/detail.aspx?ID=788 [ascendance.net] that should work two, you need two of them. Configuration isn't difficult, you set one as an AP and the other as a client, set your encryption and static /30 ip. and aim them at eachother. All done. On average with the standard radio you can get 20mbits up and down, and its solid enough to put voip calls over. The max range is just under 5 miles, that should cover you. Hope that helps.
• #### Directional High-Gain Antenna (Score:2, Informative)

Linksys (I don't know about others) come with a standard antenna port. With a directional, high-gain antenna pointed at your dad's house from the neighbor's, you could probably make the connection. Worst case, you might need to get some custom firmware and turn up the transmission strength a tad. (I suggest Tomato.)

Look up "coffee can wifi antennas" on google. This will make it cheap and "easy."

• #### Re:Directional High-Gain Antenna (Score:5, Informative)

on Thursday May 22, 2008 @01:09PM (#23508652)
Linksys (I don't know about others) come with a standard antenna port

Careful. Not ALL Linksys have antenna ports. Some do, some don't. I just bought one that doesn't. Not a concern for me, but don't buy one online without looking closely expecting them to have ports.
• #### Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

Look up "coffee can wifi antennas" on google

Just as an aside, the famous Rob Flickenger "Pringles Tube" antenna with all the washers up the inside sucks elephants through very fine gauze.

The stopped waveguide "coffee can" antennas work much better, but finding a suitable 85mm diameter can might be tricky. There are a lot of simple patch antenna designs out there, too. Helicals are too much hassle, really.

You might get good results with a couple of USB wifi sticks mounted in place of the LNB of some old s
• #### Cantenna? (Score:5, Informative)

on Thursday May 22, 2008 @12:18PM (#23507804) Journal
You can buy [cantenna.com] or build [turnpoint.net] a cantenna. They're illegal. But with a bit of work and patience, they function well. I dunno if a simple can-based setup can handle half a kilometer (and if it can, it's going to need a good solid connection to the house to keep it aligned) but I do know that a cantenna operated at the focal point of a used satellite dish will work fine up into the several kilometer range.
They're really cheap to build. You generally need to find reverse-polarity RF connectors to hook to the card in the computer. Digikey.com, newark.com, and mouser.com all sell reverse-polarity rf connectors. Traditionally people put n-type rf connectors on the antenna but that's a pain: I built mine using a bnc bulkhead connector on the can, and a rp-sma-to-bnc converter connector on my wireless adapter card, and just ran bnc cable from one to the other.

Mine only runs 40 meters through a couple of walls. Hopefully other people will correct this if it's the wrong solution for 500 meters.
• #### Hawking external antennas (Score:4, Informative)

<drachenstern@gmail.com> on Thursday May 22, 2008 @12:18PM (#23507810) Journal
Have you seen these? I think they would require LoS for maximum efficiency, but it's worth a peak. You could use two directional high gain antennas and point them at each other if LoS is nearly there... But bear in mind that nothing about their doc requires LoS, just that we all know it works better if there is.

http://www.hawkingtech.com/products/productlist.php?CatID=32&FamID=58&ProdID=133 [hawkingtech.com]
• #### ALL wireless routers go that far. (Score:5, Informative)

on Thursday May 22, 2008 @12:20PM (#23507850) Homepage

Wireless access point at each end, directional antennas, wifi goodness ensues.

I've done 1000 meters with simple patch antennas and wrt54g routers running dd-wrt to create a wireless ethernet extension. Only heavy rain will drop the connection.

Otherwise look up the laser types. there are hundreds of websites on how to do this simple and common task.
• #### \$318 WiFi network bridge connects two locations up (Score:5, Informative)

on Thursday May 22, 2008 @12:20PM (#23507854) Homepage
See if this works for you:

If you've tried every antenna and extender on the market today with subpar results, HD Communications is apt to become your new best friend. The outfit has just revealed its HD26200, a "complete outdoor wireless network bridge in the 802.11b/g unlicensed 2.4GHz band that sells for only \$318." Said device bridges wireless internet between two locales up to 5 miles apart without requiring a single RF cable, being that both Ubiquiti network radios are powered over Ethernet. If you're looking for the catch, the bridge does require a direct line of sight between the two locations, but the firm is reportedly looking to expand its non-line of sight family by the summer's end.

Hope this helps.

• #### Use Mikrotik boards, which run Linux (Score:4, Interesting)

on Thursday May 22, 2008 @12:21PM (#23507864) Homepage
I'm just about to the point where I hate wireless, but for a non-commercial shot like this, mikrotik should work well. You could get into it for 300.00 - 600.00 for a couple of units configured as a wireless bridge.

I recommend using Ubiquity sR2 or SR5 mini-pci cards...and ground everything especially well.

Mikrotik boards run Linux and are extremely roboust and feature rich. But you can follow this wiki and have a transparent bridge running in no time flat:

http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Transparently_Bridge_two_Networks [mikrotik.com]

We use mikrotik a lot in a wireless WISP situation. If someone thinks they are going to throw a bunch of this stuff hundreds of feet in the air and make a lot of money doing wireless Internet, they are in for a wild ride...that ends somewhere between hairloss and a straight jacket...but I do something almost exactly like what you are wanting to do with your father using Mikrotik, and it has worked very well and wasn't super expensive.

Again, ground everything as best you can, and use directional, not omni antennas (cheap omni antennas often have grounding issues than can pop the radio card really easy).

Transporter_ii
• #### SMC 2891W (Score:3, Informative)

on Thursday May 22, 2008 @12:22PM (#23507880)
I know these look pricey, but they're worth it (aka: save yourself the trouble of cheap indoor access points in a box). They have everything you need, all in a rugged outdoor enclosure. And yes, they run Linux.

SMC2891W-AG Wireless Outdoor Bridge

Data Sheet [smc.com]

Manual [smc.com]

• #### Novaroam stuff works well (900Mhz no license band) (Score:4, Interesting)

on Thursday May 22, 2008 @12:24PM (#23507910)
http://novaroam.com/ [novaroam.com] - used by police, fire, etc. Good penetration through trees and foliage, unlike WiFi. Mesh networking capable if you need it (although your setup sounds like point-to-point).

-Karl
A rock record: http://www.instarmusic.com/ [instarmusic.com]

• #### It would be nice.. (Score:3, Informative)

on Thursday May 22, 2008 @12:27PM (#23507978)
If you gave a little more info. If you have line of sight then its no problem at all just buy 2 routers that can be flashed to DD-WRT. (I suggest the Asus WL-500G Premium or the Linksys WRT54GL I own both and they both work like a charm just make sure you buy the right connector Asus: rp-SMC/linksys: rp-TNC)

After you figure that out go to http://www.hyperlinktech.com/familylist.aspx?id=146 [hyperlinktech.com] or where ever you want to get an Antenna.

my guess is your going to want to grab the 24db one seeing as how the 30 jumps quite a bit in price. after that mount them both with line of sight connect everything up and you should be good to go. If you don't have line of sight then its going to depend on whats in the way if its possible at all.
• #### Make your own antenna (Score:3, Interesting)

on Thursday May 22, 2008 @12:33PM (#23508066)
Research satellite dish antennas [wallawalla.edu] or cantennas [google.com]. Both are cheap directional antennas (buy someone's used satellite dish) and of course you will want direct line of sight between the two antennas.
• #### Wireless (Score:4, Interesting)

on Thursday May 22, 2008 @12:37PM (#23508138)
When I first moved to my city, DSL and cable were not available. 6 years ago I started a job located about 4 miles away from my home, and they had a T1. Turns out my condo had radio line of sight to work. What I did was set up two Linux boxes on peer to peer wireless using Orinico cards since they had the jack for an external antenna. To those I hooked up the appropriate pigtails and LMR-400 microwave cable to the parabolic grid antennas on the roof of each location. After configuring Linux to handle the routing, bam I was the first guy in my city with broadband. Actually, I'm still running on it though cable and DSL is now available.

Now granted this was the old school way of doing it. The other problem was that I was using 75 feet of LMR-400 cable on each end to bring the signal from the antenna to my card. That's generally not a good idea since long runs of cable attenuate the signal, so it's always best to have your network equipment as close to the antenna as possible. But back then that type of stuff was hella expensive - Just between the grid antennas, the cards, the dongles, and the cables it came out to about \$600. You don't even want to know what the network equipment would have cost, which is why I ran it on the cheap using Linux.

But now this stuff practically grows on trees. There are kits around that let you do long distance point-to-point hookups, but I don't know where to get them off the top of my head since I haven't researched it in awhile. You might want to start with Radio Labs [radiolabs.com] to get an idea of the type of equipment that's out there. Bottom line is that if I can get a decent wifi signal from four miles away with a non-optimal configuration, you should be able to do 500m as long as you have line of sight. I think you should be able to get away with it for around \$500 or less.

• #### Go Optical ? (Score:3, Interesting)

on Thursday May 22, 2008 @12:39PM (#23508164) Journal
If you have :-

1) Clear line of sight.
2) A soldering iron (and know how to use it *properly*)
3) Basic metalwork skills.
4) Spare time **LOTS**

http://ronja.twibright.com/ [twibright.com]

"Ronja is a free technology project for reliable optical data links with a current range of 1.4km and a communication speed of 10Mbps full duplex."

10 Megabit free space optical complete with designs & pcb layouts.

Can't get more DIY than this :-)
• #### this may work... (Score:4, Insightful)

on Thursday May 22, 2008 @12:41PM (#23508210)
maybe a verizon broadband access card [vzw.com]? they sell it in usb format too... 5GB monthly cap is kinda small though so it might not suit your needs.
• #### Linksys WRT54GLx2 + 2 14dBi directional antenna (Score:4, Interesting)

on Thursday May 22, 2008 @12:44PM (#23508252)
Get 2 Linksys WRT54GL rounters, one for each site, and replace an antenna on each with a Hawking [HAO14SDP] directional antenna, and align them to point at each other. Might be best to roof mount the antenna, but aligning them will be the hardest part. You might only need to buy one of the directionals and get an omni for the other antenna at the other site, and rely on the directional to make the connection. I own one of the directionals and it is in my "travel kit", i.e., whenever I go on the road, I have a laptop, a WRT54GL, and the 14dBi directional and do a quick scan around where-ever I am so I can get on the web for a quick fix if the hotel/friend/etc., doesn't have a network connection.
• #### This wouldn't be on Cape Cod now would it? (Score:5, Funny)

<oblique@NospAM.alum.mit.edu> on Thursday May 22, 2008 @12:47PM (#23508302) Homepage
Maybe a 300 year old cottage? Just asking...
• #### RONJA (Score:3, Interesting)

on Thursday May 22, 2008 @05:05PM (#23512008) Journal
What you need is RONJA [twibright.com], a free space optics link, with the technology being under your control (open source).
• #### 500m is nothing... what matters is line-of-sight (Score:3, Informative)

on Thursday May 22, 2008 @05:42PM (#23512310)
Wireless links with plain old 802.11 have been done over FAR longer distances (over 10km is common and I've seen links over 40km) with simple directional antennas. What's much more important than distance is line-of-sight. Basically if you can see the other antenna without a telescope, you can connect to it. However, there must NOT be any trees in between, even if you can see the other antenna in the gaps of the foliage. Trees are very good radio-wave shields. (Actually, water is the shield, but like all living things, trees are full of water.)

If you do not have line of sight from the ground, try the roof. If you still don't your next option would be to build a mast. You can make a mast up to 10 or 12m cheaply by telescoping several pieces of steel pipe and bracing the whole thing with 3 steel cables. I have a 9m mast like this that I built for about \$100.

Make sure to get a router with antennas that you can disconnect and replace (not all have those, but many do). Then connect a directional antenna... for 500m you don't need anything fancy, the cheapest directional antenna you can buy or a home-made "cantenna" will do just fine.

Same for the other end of the connection... if you don't want to put a router on both ends, make sure your wifi card has an antenna connector. Or you can use a USB wifi adapter with a "stub" antenna, and stick that little stub directly into a "cantenna" type can (you'll need to calculate the position of the hole for the antenna... there are calculators for this on the net, google "cantenna calculator"). That will turn a little \$25 USB dongle into a directional Wifi powerhouse, using nothing but a can with hole drilled in the right place! I've gotten a strong connection over 1km between two of those and I'm sure it could have gone much further but we didn't try because 1km was enough.

For your short distance of 500m, given line of sight, you may even be able to get away with a directional antenna only on one end, and the regular omni antenna on the other. I.e. if you have window-to-window sight, you may be able to put an unmodified router on the windowsill of one house and a usb-dongle-cantenna on a windowsill of the other and have your link.

Good luck! :j

• #### Use DSL (Score:3, Informative)

on Thursday May 22, 2008 @06:17PM (#23512590)
I had a similar problem at a ski resort - The distance was too 'far' for CAT5, and Wireless / Fiber was too difficult due to weather and cost. I wound up using a couple of "Tut Systems" DSL ethernet bridge boxes, hooked together with about 750 meters of cat 5. Worked like a charm.

Here's the kind of boxes I'm talking about:

"Mr. Watson, come here, I want you." -- Alexander Graham Bell

Working...