Ask Slashdot: Linux Distro For Hybrid Laptop? 210
Steve Parrish writes: I needed a new laptop and found a great deal on an Asus Transformer TP500L. It's one of the laptops where you can flip the screen back and use it as a tablet. I'd like to replace Windows 8.1, and I'm having a difficult time finding a Linux distro that will work on it. I'm familiar with Mint, SolydX, and older Ubuntu versions. I tried the latest Ubuntu with Unity and didn't like it, but the OS installed with only a few minor issues. Has anyone tried any other distros on a hybrid laptop with a touchscreen? I've used Linux for several years, but I'm no guru -- I'm not comfortable with the command line or other advanced workings. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Advanced Workings.... (Score:2, Insightful)
Does anyone else remember a time when getting the X Window System to work properly was considered advanced? And now the command line is considered advanced... I guess I'm getting old.
Re:Advanced Workings.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Advanced Workings.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Does anyone else remember a time when the rolling own your kernel modules for devices to work properly was considered advanced? And now almost everything works out of the box. I guess I'm getting old.
Thast was great when just getting the thing to work at all was the goal.
Re:Advanced Workings.... (Score:4, Interesting)
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Linux needs to be focused on people who put a dollar value on their time. I could spend 100 hours getting your buggy, poorly documented POS to work, or I can buy a Windows/OSX box and have it just work.
How odd. That's exactly why people move to OSX and Linux.
I've had a couple people think they had ot give up on cusing a computer (including my wife) because of W8. Six months now of Linux Mint. The only "problem" is Docky doesn't wake up from suspend.
Contrast that with her W8 Machine bitching up many programs, resetting a lot of them with forced updates, and all it's other problems. And a lot of Windows machines don't wake up at all from suspend.
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The wife is going through this at the moment. One day she might look beyond windows, but at the moment she just spits and swears at the damned thing.
Microsoft's Marketing division's best move ever. For non-MS operating systems.
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The wife is going through this at the moment. One day she might look beyond windows, but at the moment she just spits and swears at the damned thing.
The most amazing marketing thing that Microsoft has done has been to get so many people to believe that the computer they use has to be problem filled and hardly work at all
I know people who are overjoyed if they can get their computer to print in landscape mode.
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(I'd also be overjoyed if the wife would have let me install a proper network in the house when we moved in, because I can't get the printer to work at all over the wifi, but that's probably a separate issue.
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I'd be overjoyed if windows 8 on the wife's machine would print to our 13 year old laser printer two days in a row without needing the printer drivers re-installed.
Side note. I've found that Linux has much better driver support (how ironic) than Windows does for any legacy machinery. I had a dual-boot machine with a USB to serial dongle Worked perfectly in Mint. Then wouldn't in Windows> So after manually (more irony) searching for the driver on the Windows side. I found out the dongle wasn't supported and no drivers were forthcoming. Turns out the USB-Serial dongle was one made for an old Palm Pilot. So I had to buy a new one for thw Windws side. A perfectly g
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Does anyone else remember a time when the rolling own your kernel modules for devices to work properly was considered advanced? And now almost everything works out of the box. I guess I'm getting old.
We all are
Re:Advanced Workings.... (Score:5, Funny)
I remember when installing Debian GNU/Linux required either downloading a set of diskettes
You had diskettes? We used to dream of having a diskette. Why, we even considered using a Hollerith card reader to be a luxury. Most of the time we had to toggle in the boot instructions on a punch down block.
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If you using a lot of terminals, I would suggest using a tiled window manager like i3 [i3wm.org]. New terminal is only a key press away and it is very efficient once you master it.
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Touchscreen + Linux... (Score:5, Interesting)
Put Android on it (seriously), or Ubuntu, or a distro with KDE4 geared towards tablets.
The Linux userland support for tablets is really abysmal.
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Android-x86 might be an option but is built off AOSP and includes none of the proprietary Google services such as Play - if that bothers the OP.
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You can download all the Google services. Google doesn't seem to care if consumers download and install, it's only when manufacturers distribute them on devices without either joining the Open Handset Alliance or signing a custom agreement with Google that there's issues.
So you're right, they don't come with AOSP, but they're easy to find.
Re:Touchscreen + Linux... (Score:4, Informative)
You mean like these?
http://forum.xda-developers.co... [xda-developers.com]
Google doesn't care if end users download and install them, they just don't want OEMs to do it without properly joining the OHA.
Though in all honesty, I'd just leave Windows intact and install bluestax (which is free.) Getting drivers and shit working on that is going to be a royal PITA and probably won't be worth the time you spend on it. Just install something like Start8 and ignore that piece of shit called metro -- it won't bother you if you don't bother it.
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Those files are arch-independent and work on x86? My understanding was it was ARM-only but I'm happy to be corrected.
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You can get gapps for just about any architecture. I linked that one because those are the modular packages, so you can get whatever apps you want sans the ones you don't want. I don't know if x86 is linked in there, but you can google search e.g. "gapps x86" (no quotes) to find them if not.
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Not necessarily. There are different ways to build Android apps. The most common way by far is using java. Versions of Android 4.4 and above compile that as you say via the ART runtime, but prior to that they use a JIT interpreter called Dalvik (except prior to 2.2 where it doesn't use JIT and is slower.)
You can also just compile binaries in just about any language of your choice (commonly with C or C++) or even include your own interpreter for another language bundled with your app (such as Python for Andr
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And that is not even mentioning how that would completely ruin the hybrid aspect of it. You could never use it as a fully functioning laptop, and everything about it would be designed for a screen 10% the size.
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So run android and windows in a vm to switch between them. Disable updates if you don't want new functionality. Finally realise that large android tablets exist, are perfectly usable with no design issues, run perfectly stably, and no updates dont
't break things despite what you believe. 'm wondering if actually installed and used the OS we are talking about.
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Whoa - this is going to be HUGE news to the millions of people who use Android all the time.
I myself had no idea that it was broken or unstable or that it completely changed functionality every month or two. It must be doing all that in the background, because I haven't noticed a single thing wrong with mine. How did you even find out about it in the first place?
Mine's just a big phone, though. I don't use a physical keyboard with it. Imagine how all those people with Android tablets and notebooks will feel
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Put Android on it (seriously), or Ubuntu, or a distro with KDE4 geared towards tablets.
The Linux userland support for tablets is really abysmal.
My wife's Asus touchscreen laptop has Mint installed on it, and works well. Installation was drop dead simple, and she just uses it.
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I'm going to second the recommendation of a KDE4 distro. I installed the latest Kubuntu to an external drive recently. When I booted it on a touch-screen laptop, the touch-screen worked great out of the box with 0 configuration! I was shocked!
Re: Touchscreen + Linux... (Score:2)
Or buy a Nexus phone.
Ubuntu 14.04 (Score:5, Informative)
. It's probably easiest to install, you get used to the Unity interface after awhile really. The things it doesn't install correctly I just googled with mostly easy fixes (apt-get this and that).
There are actually ways of not using Unity but the old Gnome interface for example. Again, Google is your friend (in this case).
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From a guy that actually has used Unity.
1) The user experience is consistent and comfortable, and very close to a classic Windows or Mac desktop.
2) It is the last desktop which still has a cool appearance instead of a bland and flattened look.
3) Unity uses a lot of hardware resources, and things quickly become choppy on low-end hardware.
Re: Ubuntu 14.04 (Score:2)
Unity is nothing like classic windows otherwise I'd not have dumped it for Linux mint like everyone else. It's looks like a mac user's attempt to do a tablet friendly version but on a device without a touch screen, which is retarded. Plus they released it while it was unfinished.
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Re: Ubuntu 14.04 (Score:2)
It was specifically designed to target tablets, because there was already a perfectly good ui for the desktop, but which was not considered suitable for tablets (and phones). So they created one which was equally unsuitable for desktop, phone or tablet. It's quite telling that you question whether they even attempted this; Google for yourself if you don't believe me.
They believe that they're going after regular computer users rather than traditional Linux users, but nobodies heard of unity or Ubuntu outside
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You didn't really answer the question - what is tablet-like about it? Sure, it's got larger icons in areas but that's about all I can see.
Unity was not specifically designed for tablets, it was originally designed for netbooks which were all the rage when it was released. I recall using Ubuntu Netbook Remix on my old 7" ASUS EeePC 701 and Unity was definitely a more efficient default layout.
From Wikipedia.
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However, the things that work for me are that I have a netbook with a 10" screen, that I really only use for browsing, ftp, torrent, ssh and some light gaming emulators. Movies in 720p and above are already too much for it.
So I put the applications I use most on the left pop-up bar (terminal, Firefox, FileZilla). And all other applications installed are just easily found through the Unity button wh
If ubuntu installed (Score:5, Informative)
Don't give up just because the default GUI blows chunks.
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As a fan of Gentoo and Arch I would still say that for your requirements you can rip out Unity, Lens (is that spyware still installed?) and a raft of other things you don't like/need then fill the gaps with things you do like whilst still keeping the base system that Canonical have made very easy for people who want to carry on learning.
As with all of these "I don't like the GUI" SlashAsks it comes down to which front end you like and trying them all won't hurt a bit. Once you find one that you like yo
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Mod up. If the hardware is working, it doesn't make sense to re-installing from scratch without first exploring the alternative desktop environments available from the login manager on startup.
(Let's not turn this into an Ubuntu vs [random poster's fave distro] flamewar - the user already has Ubuntu installed on the device)
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why not flame, it's possible to move from Ubuntu to Mint just by changing repos, and Mint is Ubuntu minus the suck.
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Well if one can 'upgrade' to mint by switching repos then fine.
I was just advising against going to the trouble of wiping an ubuntu install (with working hardware) to clean installing fedora/opensuse etc only to find something didn't work.
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Nice try but I run debian on my home system.
The poster said they didn't like Unity. Ubuntu runs other desktop environments - trying them out might be an easier migration path than downloading a new ISO media of a completely different distro.
Re:If ubuntu installed (Score:5, Informative)
My housemate is running a Thinkpad Helix - a somewhat similar hybrid - with Kubuntu, and the plasma desktop appears to work fairly well (we were discussing this recently in some depth, as I'm in the pre-contemplation phase of the next laptop). I would at least look into it - it appears to be functional, and avoids the Unity issues.
(I'm currently on vacation, so cannot easily consult with said housemate.)
Re:If ubuntu installed (Score:4, Informative)
Then "apt-get update && apt-get install xubuntu" or "apt-get update && apt-get install kubuntu"
If I remember correctly the metapackage names are xubuntu-desktop and kubuntu-desktop.
XFCE is kind of problematic as the development is slow. The last stable version is almost 3 years old, although it generally works just fine. You may want to turn off the integrated compositor (as it causes tearing) and replace it with Compton.
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Your use cases (Score:5, Insightful)
Let your uses dictate your choice. What are you going to use this device for?
Email? Browsing the web? Programming? Watching movies? Games? Making the best of your time in a subway? What other devices do you already have? Is this going to be your primary computer? Is power consumption a consideration? Etc.
I'm afraid that there is currently no good one-size-fits-all solution. Whatever you decide, it will have to be a compromise.
Fedora (Score:5, Informative)
I don't know about transformers, but I have tried a lot of distros lately on Lenovo convertible laptops, and my best experience has definitely been with Fedora. The setup is almost as easy as Ubuntu and the touch screen works well.
I'm not a Debian fan and I typically pick CentOS, but I was surprised to see how Fedora is more polished and convenient.
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I have a Lenovo Thinkpad Yoga (similar form factor) and after some tweaking I'm pretty happy with Ubuntu 14.10 on it, but you're going to have to get comfy with the command line. Some immediately useful tips: Chromium has much better touch support than chrome or firefox. If you're a chrome user, chromium is the open source core of it. The OnBoard screen keyboard is a lifesaver. There are a ton of scripts you can find to help with screen rotation, which you can then map to any custom keys you have. Good
Or just leave Windows on it (Score:4, Insightful)
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How about leaving Windows 8.1 on it? The device you have is the very device 8.1 was designed around. Linux will be clunky compared to it.
To me it seems that the trend of forcibly replacing every Windows device with Linux is still alive, even though Linux does not offer big benefits anymore.
It did offer big benefits in the past: UNIX workstations were expensive, and Microsoft software worked like garbage (slow, unsecure, crashy). This was from late 90s to early 00s. The situation looks very different today.
I just don't see the point in replacing my OS with something that is technically inferior. The Linux desktop is super glitchy, power manag
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On low end hardware it does. Current versions of MS Windows require significantly more powerful hardware than a current linux distro assumes is going to be available.
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It's fine being a cheerleader making noise about something you like but do not know much about, but I really t
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Such as a tablet where large performance sacrifices have been made in the interest of battery life and weight reduction. Your silly cheering while far out of your depth is annoying - there are obviously some situations where one tool is good and others where another is good but you clearly just want to pretend otherwise with a bit of mindless "go team go" bullshit.
I suggest you discuss something where you can feel at least an equal to others in the discussion instead of
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So you find the consensus view depressing? What does that tell you about yourself?
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How about leaving Windows 8.1 on it? The device you have is the very device 8.1 was designed around. Linux will be clunky compared to it.
Problem is that in laptop mode - when you are typing on the keyboard, Windows 8.1 is ugly. I had it for a few days, and the charms bar would come up every time my cursor got near the right of the screen. It was a pain to use. Also, unlike Windows 7, the touchfreeze option didn't seem to work. I later replaced it w/ PC-BSD 10, and now it works reasonably well. Only thing I miss on this is WiFi, but other than that....
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It's his hardware, time and effort, it is his choice, why should you care? You can either help him do what he wants or just ignore him altogether if you don't have some underlying reason to care.
Personally, I just avoid anything with windows 8.X preloaded on it altogether. But that's my choice. You should get into this free and open source software sometime and you will find that you have choices too. Of course staying with windows is a valid choice you can make also.
Re: Or just leave Windows on it (Score:4, Insightful)
Why?
The consensus here seems to be that none of the OS/Linux alternatives seem to be terribly good on these kinds of hybrid devices.
Maybe 8.1 is not perfect, sure... But maybe MS didn't do such a bad job either trying to find middle ground or a reasonable UX on such a large group of devices, from full desktop machines to hybrids to phones.
The definitely did a better job scaling their OS than Apple for instance.
For that, in spite of some of their shortcomings, I think MS deserves some credit.
Of course, it is always easy to say that product X or Y from company so and so is s**t but if you are so clever and opinionated, why not come up with something better then?
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I did the same (Score:5, Informative)
I have the exact same laptop model, and am currently running Ubuntu 14.10. Not saying it is perfect, but it runs well enough. The laptop is new enough that current drivers for the WiFi hardware are not included with Ubuntu (I have tried a few things, with marginal success, currently using a WiFi USB dongle). The touch pad (not screen, that works well off the bat) settings needed to be tweaked in order to be used as well. One other thing I have noticed is that sometimes during certain operations, the cursor and/or tooltips can flicker.
Overall, it runs well with those things being the only issues.
Link to wifi workaround:
http://community.linuxmint.com/tutorial/view/1796
Link to touchpad workaround:
http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=179238
Good Luck!
laptops are a commodity (Score:2)
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I don't know where do I fit in the statistics, but I believe I am way off your data point :)
I used to buy "good" laptops, as much as my budget would allow — I had two very nice Dell computers, both bought for ~US$1,000. But in 2008 I bought an Acer Aspire One netbook (one of the first, 9" models) for ~US$400. I loved it. Even if it was so underpowered, it was comfortable to just take along anywhere. Granted, I don't do heavy compiling, but did work on it (even with its tiny keyboard). While on vacatio
Linux Mint 17.1 (Score:5, Informative)
I just put Linux Mint 17.1 MATE 64-bit [linuxmint.com] on a Lenovo IdeaPad S415. Everything just worked out of the box, and that includes both the multitouch touchpad and the touchscreen. Also the network, wifi, sound, and graphics. Everything.
http://notebookplanet.blogspot.com/2013/12/lenovo-ideapad-s415-specs.html [blogspot.com]
That IdeaPad is a year old. A year ago, no Linux that I tried worked out of the box with it; graphics didn't work. X always got confused by the fact that the machine has two graphics adapters (one built-in to the AMD APU chip, and a discrete one).
I've really been enjoying Linux Mint 17.1; it seems to be a big improvement over Linux Mint 16. You can easily and non-destructively try it, just by booting from a USB flash drive that has Linux Mint on it. (You can use UNetBootIn [sourceforge.net] to make the USB flash drive.)
While I can't guarantee that Linux Mint 17.1 will work on your hardware, it worked great on mine so I think it's worth your time to try it out.
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Kind of agree. I use mint (cinnamon?) On my newish little hp touch laptop, out of box touch and wifi worked.
Still not fine: slow operation. Needs either native/proprietary graphics driver or compile to machine or both.
If these prove difficult with mint might try gentoo.
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I've got 64-bit Mint 17.1 Cinnamon on an older (Ivy Bridge-powered) Lenovo Ideapad Yoga 11s. Everything worked immediately except the wireless*, which was easy enough to fix after I downloaded one third-party package plus dkms to auto-rebuild the module during kernel upgrades.
Cinnamon's UI isn't designed around touchscreens, but it works with them, much like MATE. I prefer the good old keyboard and touchpad myself.
https://wiki.debian.org/Instal... [debian.org]
* and some fancy power management stuff that's handled by a
Fedora updates frequently vs Ubuntu (Score:5, Informative)
A couple of people have mentioned success with Fedora. That doesn't surprise me because Fedora is supposed to have all the latest packages, with the latest in touchscreen features and the newest version of drivers for the newest hardware. However, balance that against the other side of the coin. Because Fedora is based on the latest and newest, they don't provide the type of long term support for older versions that Ubuntu and some others do.
If you choose Fedora, realise that pretty soon you'll have to decide to either a) upgrade to the next version of Fedora or b)stick with the versions you have of all the software. Don't plan on installing the 2017 version of a program on a 2014 version of Fedora. Plan to either upgrade the whole OS or upgrade nothing in a few years.
Ubuntu and CentOS are more about long term stability. The current version of CentOS will be getting updated packages by years from now, so you can keep using the same version of CentOS and update packages as needed.
The downside to the more long term stable distros is that they may not have the latest and greatest touch screen features - they'll have well-tested packages that have already proved themselves in Fedora for a year before they are added to CentOS (debranded RHEL).
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Trivial question not deserve a discussion post (Score:2, Insightful)
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I don't know. Why not post it on Ask Slashdot and see if the users can help?
Keep Windows, VM Linux (Score:2)
I use one of these (Score:3)
I keep hybrid tablet-laptop around as an art PC. It used to be an old Toshiba Satellite; now it's a Sony VAIO Duo 11. I run Slackware on it, like I do nearly all my machines. Slackware will run fine if the digitizer part is supported by the kernel (since new Wacom and N-Trig parts come out from time to time, sometimes kernel support may be missing or naff if the laptop is too new). Otherwise you will see reduced functionality, but that is true of any distro.
Using a stylus you can drive most aspects of a WM or DE. It gets tricky using your finger.
Best advice (Score:2)
Constructively speaking, the guys telling you to try the latest Mint are the smart money. Do it before giving up. It is a better bet than anything else.
But seriously, you've used Linux for YEARS and are not "comfortable" with the command line? Really? I am really not sure linux is a good idea for you if you won't make the investment in learning. It's not a criticism. Getting any really good results out of linux requires either a friend who is an expert to set it up and occasionally support it, or requires a
Have you tried some live linux images? (Score:5, Insightful)
Are you able to boot from a USB stick? I found this tool quite useful for trying out a variety of live-linux iso's on a usb drive:
yumi [pendrivelinux.com]
It provides some useful links to download what is needed to try out a whole bunch of different distros. You can also stack a number of different distros on the same usb drive and choose which one to boot from at startup.
Personally I have been using Debian for quite a few years now, gave ubuntu a brief try but wasn't too happy with it.
I have installed Mint on virtual recently and it really does look as good as people here have stated. Mint would be my final recommendation too.
google it.... but not now (Score:2)
normally one would google that and it would come up with instances where people have installed GNU/Linux OSes on the specific hardware in question, and the older the hardware and the more popular it is, the larger the chance of finding someone else who has done exactly that and created a report (or five). unfortunately however, at this very moment, the search engine results show a huge number of interfering references to a site known as "slashdot", as well as RSS syndicated links to the same.
so you can eit
install android (Score:2)
best of both worlds
Ubuntu 14.04 with KDE, XFCE or LXDE (Score:2)
You are not alone in your dislike for Unity.
I did install Ubuntu 14.04 Server edition on newer (2014) PCs that require UEFI, and it works fine.
But you have options: kubuntu (KDE desktop, which I am using now), xubuntu (XFCE desktop) or lubuntu (LXDE desktop). If you use the 14.04 from any of those, then you probably wouldn't have any issues compared to older versions.
Linux Lite (Score:2)
gnome-shell (Score:2)
actually, I'd just go with Fedora, its got a nice easy and installer and gnome shell.
Need to stay on the treadmill (Score:2)
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If companies are really hooked on using RedHat's management tools to help keep everyone's computer up to date, with things like security updates, they can buy a RedHat license for each system to make that easier. I've only actually seen that in action at a university where they had cheap academic licenses for all of them.
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Wow and I thought the RTFM N00B neckbeard stereotype was a myth.
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its linux make it fucking work or deal with windows you lazy shit for brains retard who bought something before you even knew if it would work for you
gawd
Such eloquence! The way you've constucted that sentence is absolute perfection and I doubt it can be improved upon. Maybe correcting some spelling mistakes and grammar would help. Possibly adding punctuation would help. But these are minor points and in no way detract from your masterful prose.
I'm altering my Slashdot relationship with you (to friend) so that I can keep up with your posts. Hopefully if I keep studying your writing one day I will also be able to craft solid messages with comparable clarity.
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thanks professor, glad you found time to grade my rant on the internet, now go find something useful to do for humanity
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I would like if Windows (even 7) had an XP-like interface. I just hate the Windows 7 file manager. In fact I feel at home with Mate now (Gnome 2), its file manager is what I think is best and the "scrollwheel focus follows mouse" is a very useful feature lacking on Windows.
Classic Shell may help. (Score:2)
It is interesting that people sometimes offer free solutions for the huge mistakes Microsoft managers make.
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to work for 90% of functions, sure. But when I bought a new computer, I want 100% of it to work, not 90%, not even 99%.
There are still a lot of vendor-specific things that require Windows - ex: every of new laptops we bought at work last year need Intel XTU to configure and stabilize turbo boost, and custom windows-only utility to switch the fan to manual control. Running Linux on them would mean 60-80% of performance, because Intel and laptop firmware makers thought people don't need to keep their laptops
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A lot of Linux advocates here often post how they got non technical family members into Linux, and had no issues. Like the grandmas who just needed Chrome/Firefox and Thunderbird. In fact, that's the main reason why Ubuntu became #1 - the CLI crowd already had RedHat/Fedora, Debian, Slackware, Gentoo, Arch and a whole bunch of other distros, and wouldn't have gone Ubuntu. Not every Linux user is a CLI whiz.
And like he said, Windows 8.1 drove him to it. It drove me to PC-BSD. I too don't know much abo
The KDE solutions (Score:2)