Ask Slashdot: Cheapest Functional Computer For Students? 508
An anonymous reader writes: I've started a second career, teaching English at a High School in a middle class area. While the large majority of students have a computer and internet access at home, about 10-15% do not. I assign papers that must be typed, I have papers turned in online, and I plan to freely refer to texts, videos, and other resources that are available online. This gives an extra disadvantage to students that may be from the poorer end of the strata, and also means extra inefficiency for me, as I have to make allowances for students who don't have a computer available at home.
Right now, I have to tell them to either use school computers during the day, or to pick up a $170 laptop (more than enough — I administer the class using such a laptop). However, I was surprised at the lack of a super-cheap option for students. I'd love to see something for $20 that any student could afford easily, or perhaps I could just gift to a few students. I feel like something in this price range could be sufficiently powerful for basic word processing, youtube videos, and internet searches (internet access is a separate issue). But looking over my options I see:
1) The very cheapest Chromebooks are also in the $170 range.
2) Android Sticks have been around for a while, and do cost in the $20 range, but don't seem to have matured into a generally usable technology. Surprisingly, there doesn't seem to be a community effort to easily turn these Android sticks into Ubuntu/Mint sticks.
3) Students can't be assumed to have the technical know-how to fix up a Salvation Army computer (I wouldn't mind helping out a bit, but I don't want to turn into tech support)
4) A Raspberry Pi costs $70 once you include a case/power supply/etc, and students would receive a big bag of parts.
5) Cheap Windows Tablets have glitches, and don't have an HDMI out.
6) There isn't a good solution to using a cell phone as a desktop computer.
Are any of my assumptions wrong? Are there any other options I'm not considering?
Right now, I have to tell them to either use school computers during the day, or to pick up a $170 laptop (more than enough — I administer the class using such a laptop). However, I was surprised at the lack of a super-cheap option for students. I'd love to see something for $20 that any student could afford easily, or perhaps I could just gift to a few students. I feel like something in this price range could be sufficiently powerful for basic word processing, youtube videos, and internet searches (internet access is a separate issue). But looking over my options I see:
1) The very cheapest Chromebooks are also in the $170 range.
2) Android Sticks have been around for a while, and do cost in the $20 range, but don't seem to have matured into a generally usable technology. Surprisingly, there doesn't seem to be a community effort to easily turn these Android sticks into Ubuntu/Mint sticks.
3) Students can't be assumed to have the technical know-how to fix up a Salvation Army computer (I wouldn't mind helping out a bit, but I don't want to turn into tech support)
4) A Raspberry Pi costs $70 once you include a case/power supply/etc, and students would receive a big bag of parts.
5) Cheap Windows Tablets have glitches, and don't have an HDMI out.
6) There isn't a good solution to using a cell phone as a desktop computer.
Are any of my assumptions wrong? Are there any other options I'm not considering?
Brilliant use of Ask Slashdot - congratulations. (Score:5, Interesting)
Nine Dolla (Score:5, Funny)
Cheap. [google.com]
You've got the important points. (Score:3)
The critical question for such a determination is:
--Do you have anything else you can get get cheaply?
This very much alters the outcome. Por ejemplo: Given the inexpensiveness of wide screen monitors, the old 17" are thick on the ground at a couple of my work places, used only by interns. If your middle class folk can get you a heap of them for near-free, then yes, the Raspberry Pi2 will work well and keyboards and older mice are found in the same filing cabinet drawers. The Pi2 addresses shortage of CPU that was painful in the previous versions. It's very usable.
--Do you have shop class at a local school that can make you some cases?
http://lifehacker.com/make-an-... [lifehacker.com]
--Are you looking for an amazing set of projects your kids can do?
https://www.raspberrypi.org/ma... [raspberrypi.org]
If you can't get the monitors cheap/free, then the Pi and even $80 worth of monitor have brought you into the Chromebook range.
At that juncture you have to choose your poison. If you want consistent and easy to maintain, you'll need to purchase large batches of new chromebooks. If you have a little technical know how, you can pick them up in the $120's all day on ebay and as refurbs on woot.
Re: (Score:2)
Even with a free monitor, for the $80-ish a Pi will cost - not to mention the tech know how required, etc. then perhaps one of the cheap Android laptop devices would have a better cost/benefit ratio?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-Min... [ebay.com]
I have an older version of this (wm8650 based) and it works fine...
Re:You've got the important points. (Score:4, Interesting)
Free monitors tend to be VGA only : CRT, 1280x1024 LCD and the cheap wide monitors (in fact some narrow ones do have DVI, but the cheap wides never do)
That makes the Pis incompatible with them. Although a HDMI TV may be increasingly common.
Re: (Score:3)
Option #3 (Score:2)
>> 3) Students can't be assumed to have the technical know-how to fix up a Salvation Army computer
This is the cheapest option. For $50 you can get a working computer, with monitor. If you think that's rough, think of all the gummed-up, malware-laden computers that the 85%-ers have at home. Yet somehow, they muddle through enough to keep basic word processing, youtube videos, and internet searches working.
>> (I wouldn't mind helping out a bit, but I don't want to turn into tech support)
If you
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3)
Designate several students as tech support for extra credit. Best way to learn is by doing (For some folks). Show the 'support' kids. Let them get the other kids up and running.
Absolutely. The kids probably know more than OP, or will shortly.
Nothing wrong with a Goodwill computer. Heck, down at the town dump, you can probably get two for free and make one working one out of them.
The idea is not to get caught in the middle, with a stockroom full on non-functional donated computers. Get the kids to act as clearinghouse for
old computers.
Run Linux on it.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
also check local county government surplus sales. I got some pentium 4HT computers 1g ram that were wiped with 15 inch lcd mouse and keyboard for ~$25
Re:Option #3 (Score:5, Informative)
Came here to say this. Add to that local universities and large companies. Both will probably give you relative discounts if you direct business towards them and in many cases they are going to throw away the old machines anyway. My old university had a lot of money, but also had closets full of old Pentium and core 2 duo machines that they had no idea how to get rid of. Craigslist is also your friend.
Used computers are probably the best way to go if you are looking for a machine for sub $50, and I doubt you will be able to go down to 20 unless you or the kids are willing to go dumpster diving for parts or are really lucky.
The other alternative is to do what I did growing up without a computer with typed document requirements. Get to school before class and stay after to type up the documents at the library computers. Just a simple thumb drive allowed me to save all of my documents. I never even owned my own computer until High School (in the late 2000's). If I didn't have time in school I would draft the documents by hand and just transcribe them in the mornings.
Re: (Score:2)
Some charities also do a good job, for example Good WIll will clean up the computer, put a clean windows install and make sure it's essentially serviceable and properly licensed.
http://www.goodwilldenver.org/... [goodwilldenver.org]
tricks: Vaccum, wash the keboard, load linux. (Score:5, Informative)
If the computer is working at all, the following tricks might make it like-new:
Open it up and vacuum out the dust. Dust accumulates, especially in the CPU heatsinks, over years, causing them to overheat. For a long time the CPUs have had circuitry that slows the clock to reduce the heat - and thus slows the machine way down, which may be why it was finally abandoned. Suck out the dust and the CPU will be back to its full speed.
Replacing the BIOS backup battery is good, too, as it may be nearing end-of-life - especially as the machine sat on the shelf waiting for a new home. Also: A little time with the battery out may clear out oddball BIOS settings in older BIOS chips that are battery-backed-RAM, rather than flash, based.
If the keyboard is dirty or a little flakey, try washing it with clean (better yet, distilled) water and drying it thoroughly. As long as you don't power it while it's still moist, and don't use hot water or the heated drying cycle in a dishwaher, you won't corrode anything.
Then installing Linux from a live disk, with the use-full-disk options, will clean out any malware and give them a modern, supported, OS with a good and easy to use word processor (Open Office) for free.
Chromebooks. (Score:2)
No good without internet (Score:5, Insightful)
Students who don't own/can't afford computers almost certainly don't have/can't internet access either so there's not much point in finding an ultra-cheap one when the service cost would be a much bigger issue (with a $20 computer, internet access in most places costs more than that EVERY MONTH).
Re: (Score:2)
You can get 1.5 Mbps broadband from comcast or centurytel for $10/month.
https://apply.internetessentia... [internetessentials.com]
http://www.centurylink.com/hom... [centurylink.com]
So what? (Score:5, Insightful)
You can get 1.5 Mbps broadband from comcast or centurytel for $10/month.
https://apply.internetessentia... [internetessentials.com] http://www.centurylink.com/hom... [centurylink.com]
The 10.00 per month is meaningless to a family who is in poverty. "It's only 10.00" sounds really good when you are not in poverty. I came from poverty so know what it's like not to be able to eat because I had a bill to pay.
Perhaps you are volunteering to pay some of those 10.00/month fees for families and I just misunderstand, but you can call me a skeptic.
Irrational (Score:3)
Your statement indicates that you have one of two possible beliefs. First, you may believe that 100% of poverty is caused by drugs, booze, and cigarettes? Alternatively, you may be attempting to claim that poverty pushes 100% of the population living that way into drugs, booze, and cigarettes.
Perhaps you meant to say something other than an absolutely false generalization and wish to apologize for being incorrect and induce dialogue on how poverty impacts everyone differently?
Re: (Score:3)
Not to make light of the situation you were in, but you say that you had a land line poor. I'm going to assume that was some time ago, but in the current day and age you'd be hard pressed to suggest anyone have a land line instead of a dsl/cable connection, especially when it looks like subsidized broadband is actually cheaper than subsidized phone service. Then of course you can tack on something like google voice to get a phone number and take calls for free.
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Have you looked at the links I've posted?
Both comcast and centurytel have programs which allow qualified low income families with children to get 1.5Mbps broadband for ~$10/month. It doesn't appear to be an introductory rate and I don't see any obvious requirements that you have cable tv or phone service from them. Comcast will even sell you a low cost computer and come to your house and set it up and show you the basics of using it.
Comcast charge a bunch more for phone service, but once you've got cable in
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I never made a claim about a "phone being only $10 a month". Comcast repeatedly try to sell me one and it's far more expensive than that.
What I said was that $10 a month internet service is good enough to run skype or google voice and can be used as a phone number for things like job applications.
As best I can tell in CO, subsidized phone service is about $21 + taxes and subsidized internet service is $10 + taxes. Obviously if you can't afford a box of mac & cheese then you'll have neither one. However
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Somewhat wrong. Perhaps mostly wrong.
There are a large number of open wifi connections in the USA, and some students would be able to benefit from these.
Also, a student with a $5 thumb drive can do his internet research at the library, or on a school computer or a friend's computer, and sneakernet to and from his home computer. We managed this kind of thing in the 1980s and it is much easier to now, since floppy disks have been replaced by thumb drives.
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So you're back to the $200 laptop (with functioning battery)
Or have fun carting a desktop, monitor, keyboard and perhaps inverter and car/truck battery to the library.
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I know people who just "borrow" a friend's Comcast credentials and use the omnipresent xfinitiy wifi.
Re:No good without internet (Score:5, Insightful)
Public Libraries have computers and often require a bus pass. Coffee shops throw out children who look like their parents can't afford high speed internet. If the students have smart phones, then a Bluetooth keyboard is a good answer. If they don't have cell phones, TEACH TO YOUR STUDENTS instead of to the middle class students you don't have.
$10/month for broadband assistance is larger than the (negative) discretionary budget of many families. Asking your students to choose between dinner and homework because you want writing assignments typed is FUCKING STUPID!
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2. It's not effing stupid, it's unthinking or unaware. I appreciate your point because my parents grew up worrying about the cost of each pencil or postage stamp, and reminded us of it regularly.
3. Wanting writing assignments typed is reasonable if you have to read 120 of them, like when I was trying to get my high school teaching license (during an underemploy
But some old PCs (Score:2, Interesting)
I have a core 2 duo from 2007, its more than enough for what your students have to do, it even runs Windows 10 if it is needed and it costs nothing.
Full disclaimer: I'm teaching applied maths and CS and I design some of my courses on that computer so believe me it is more than enough.
Re: (Score:2)
I have no trouble believing you, you'd be able to do that on a PC not powerful enough to play a divx movie.
Re: But some old PCs (Score:2)
What about connection? (Score:4, Insightful)
I would assume that if they didn't have a computer home they probably don't have a connection either.
Let them write it on paper (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Let them write it on paper (Score:5, Interesting)
This.
If your English class requires a computer, you have likely missed the point.
Bear in mind that once Johny has an El Cheapo computer, he likely will be far behind on computer skills. His house will likely not have an internet connection as well. He may fall far behind after wasting more time on computer skill rather than reading and writing. Sending students to a bunch of online videos and texts may be trendy, but it is likely not actually helping your students.
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Sending students to a bunch of online videos and texts may be trendy, but it is likely not actually helping your students.
I disagree.
I think there's a lot of potential in "flipping the classroom", where lectures are watched at home and class time is used for interactive discussions and the work normally done at home. Upper level English courses don't really benefit as much because those tend to have very little lecture component to them anyway, but standard high school English courses which cover a lot of material like parts of speech, sentence diagramming, essay and poetry structure, etc., do include plenty of lectures whic
Re:Let them write it on paper (Score:5, Insightful)
I will disagree, and I would argue that computers should not be intruded into this classroom.
I tutor inner-city kids. Common issues are highly mobile families, poverty, English as a second language, and refuge status. They are academically behind their peers. Their parents are unsophisticated or put little emphasis on education. Throwing even modest obstacles can derail them.
I get why computers are important to education. However, this has to be a school wide initiative, not a classroom one.
Overlooking the true cost of computer hardware. (Score:5, Insightful)
The true cost of that computer asset does not start and stop with that one-time purchase.
I think you might also be overlooking the fact that these families don't have a computer because they also cannot afford the $40+/month for broadband internet access to take advantage of all the online resources you wish to present to your students.
And trying to keep that cost fixed by using a computer offline 100% of the time is rather pointless in today's environment.
Unusual requirement (Score:5, Funny)
"Cheapest Functional Computer For Students?"
An Arduino running Haskel?
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"Cheapest Functional Computer For Students?"
An Arduino running Haskel?
A VIC-20 running VIC-Forth?
Re: (Score:3)
Forth isn't a functional language.
Don't require a computer (Score:5, Insightful)
Are any of my assumptions wrong? Are there any other options I'm not considering?
Yes, you shouldn't design your curriculum assuming students will have limitless access to a computer and internet. Don't have paper turned in online, print out resources to pass out to the student, show the videos in class, and make the amount of typing such that it can be done on school/library computers without excessive burden. There is nothing about learning the English language that requires a computer.
Exactly this. Rethink your curriculum. (Score:5, Insightful)
Exactly this. Rethink your curriculum.
"I assign papers that must be typed, I have papers turned in online, and I plan to freely refer to texts, videos, and other resources that are available online."
Don't do this. Don't force them to type, don't force them to turn in online, don't refer to text, videos, or other online resources, unless you also offer library resources that allow them to reference the materials without buying a computer and paying for internet connectivity.
"This gives an extra disadvantage to students that may be from the poorer end of the strata, and also means extra inefficiency for me, as I have to make allowances for students who don't have a computer available at home."
Yes. So cut it out. You are unnecessarily disadvantaging them for your own convenience.
P.S.: If someone is using a computer with a spelling and grammar correction capability, how will you catch students with learning disabilities so that they can get help sooner rather than later? How are you going to detect copy and paste plagiarism, if it's possible to copy and paste?
Re: (Score:3)
For the not the right class argument: Yes, English need not be taught using computers but who are we to tell him that he should ignore the limitless free ed content out there...
It think that kind of comes with giving him the job title "teacher", rather than the job title "media facilitator".
These kids will need to learn basic computing skills sometime especially if they are ever to escape poverty.
So have them *also* take a computer class. They should learn English in their English class.
Re: (Score:3)
I agree that you don't need a computer to learn English lit. I had some access to computers in my school, but mostly everything was books and paper. They did make me type all my papers after a certain point, though, so typing papers is a far-from-new phenomenon.
However, computers are becoming so pervasive for everything these days that I think relying on only a "computer class" to integrate the practical use of computers just isn't going to cut it if these students want to deal with the realities of life
Bill & MelindacGates foundation (Score:2)
Yes I will probably be modded down , but they have programs for educators and low income students and have been known to donate netbooks and tablets like their atom surfaces which are hybrids
Pick your poison (Score:3)
1) Find old Salvation army computers and toss linux on them. This option is probably the cheapest but requires the most time sink from someone to set up.
2) Go for something like http://www.amazon.com/CanaKit-... [amazon.com] (if you can find cheap/free monitors/keyboards/mice). If you can overcome the expense of the monitors/keyboards/mice (find cheap supply or have them donated), this is probably the best time/cost option. The number of parts are really small, and the kits can probably be pre-assembled on a sunday with volunteer labor if you are afraid putting them together might be too much for the students.
3) Otherwise, as you noted, you're in Chromebook territory. Perhaps a fundraiser/sponsorship or some way of trying to subsidize them for the whole class might bring the cost per unit down into the more affordable range for your under-privaleged students (without single them out)?
Smartphone + keyboard (Score:3)
A smartphone and a blue tooth keyboard is fully capable of what you ask, as long as the videos and websites are capable. The headache will be on your end with supporting several different word processors, as the better ones are not free, and there are several respectable free choices including Google Docs.
So what does this offer? The middle class American child already has a smartphone, or their parents do. Pretty high power devices are also available as the "low end" option, and older devices are capable so a castoff or hand-me-down phone that is in good shape will do the job quite well (yes, batteries need replaced about every 2 years). All smart phones have wifi access without having phone service turned on. This means that they can use wifi at the coffee shop or use data on their parents' devices for the actual submission.
Bluetooth keyboards start at about $25.
A prepaid smartphone is about $50 for the device.
Yes, this operates on the assumption that the student has access to a good smartphone (with or without service), and can get wifi access via local businesses.
Try this before you expect your students to use it, they will expect you to support them technically.
Raspberry Pi (Score:2)
My feeling is that a Raspberry Pi is about the best option you're going to find. This is what it was designed for, after all.
Yes, you need at least a power supply and a flash card to make it work. Those will cost a few dollars extra. You can live without a case for a while if you're careful with it. The mouse and keyboard are generic items that can usually be scrounged up somewhere. Then use a TV for the monitor, just like we did back in the old Atari and Commodore days.
It's true that the Pi is a "some
Re: (Score:2)
My feeling is that a Raspberry Pi is about the best option you're going to find. This is what it was designed for, after all.
Agreed, they're known systems unlike whatever one could dumpster dive (in many places you are NOT going to find computers dumpster diving) or get at goodwill...if your goodwill/resale shop even has any computers. Some don't take them in.
Yes, you need at least a power supply and a flash card to make it work. Those will cost a few dollars extra. You can live without a case for a while if you're careful with it. The mouse and keyboard are generic items that can usually be scrounged up somewhere. Then use a TV for the monitor, just like we did back in the old Atari and Commodore days.
powerlord above mentions this kit, which comes with practically everything except a Pi 2 composite cable for those who don't have a display with HDMI:
http://www.amazon.com/CanaKit-... [amazon.com]
Then use a TV for the monitor, just like we did back in the old Atari and Commodore days.
(classic insensitive clod joke follows) I use a TV for monitor now you insensitive clod!
It's true that the Pi is a "some assembly required" system, but at least every system is the same and there are tutorial manuals available
T
Re: (Score:2)
Ensure offline works (Score:3)
" I assign papers that must be typed, I have papers turned in online, and I plan to freely refer to texts, videos, and other resources that are available online."
Typed could be done with a typewriter. The onus is on YOU to scan if you need electrons. While it certainly is harder, having to think before typing can provide the student with some benefits as well!
Provide pointers to offline texts that should suffice (books, libraries, etc. still exist).
Videos and other resources can be viewed, when they have access at school, library, or tablet (Amazon is rumored to have a $50 one in the wings).
Since you aren't teaching at an elite private school, make sure that you aren't depriving your students of the chance to learn!
Solution: continue to not require a computer (Score:2)
Not too long ago it used to be possible to send hand-written manuscripts to publishers. Admittedly, these times are mostly gone, but for classes handwriting still should be good enough. Unless you're too lazy to correct handwritten assignments or confuse writing skills with nice formatting.
Re: (Score:3)
That being said, the cheapest option is probably to go for refurbished old laptops. When they come from an enterprise they are often in a surprisingly good state. I'm doing all my daily work on a Thinkpad Z61.
Re: (Score:2)
Are you unable to read hand writing?
Clearly, you have not tried to read anything handwritten by a middle schooler lately.
a terminal (Score:2)
Will take some doing but it can be done, you give them a dumb screen with enough of a processor to connect to a central box that you manage. Assuming they have internet access. I once looked into it but got side tracked but there is plenty of on-line know how for the do it yourselfer or you can pay some one to set it for you and learn by watching. You could even do an ask slashdot on *that*. If you need portable, which I am guessing your internet solution will drive you to, this wont be much of an option
There are options (Score:2)
Actually there are a few options, especially if you already have a screen or TV.
Raspberry PI 2 starts at 50 USD - any power supply will do, and a basic keyboard and mouse are cheap.
Intel Atom based compute sticks with full Windows start at a similar price.
7" or 8" tablets are a bit more, but more useful, too. Some have HDMI.
Used laptops can be very cheap, especially the Windows XP generation.
Finally most kids have a phone? Old Androids start at about 50 USD.
Internet access may be a problem, under 100 USD a
I hate to be a dissenter here BUT... (Score:5, Insightful)
You are an English teacher.
There is absolutely zero need to have everything typed as a matter of fact you are doing the kids a disservice here because they need to learn how to write legibly.
There is zero need to have the papers turned in online.
If they need to research online then they can and should use the library.
The English/Literature classes are classes where paper should still rule.
It's not about you. (Score:5, Interesting)
I assign papers that must be typed, I have papers turned in online, and I plan to freely refer to texts, videos, and other resources that are available online. This gives an extra disadvantage to students that may be from the poorer end of the strata, and also means extra inefficiency for me, as I have to make allowances for students who don't have a computer available at home.
In other words, you've build your entire course around the experience and resources of the middle class student and what is convenient for you. You are looking for a quick. cheap, feel-good, solution that ignores --- among other things --- the problem of Internet access for the poor and their lack of experience online.
Grants? (Score:2)
I wonder if you'll be forced to suck it up and join the time-honored crap-fest of grant proposal writing.
Ebay: Thinkpad T61, x86-netbooks and arm-netbooks (Score:2)
Hi,
older thinkpads
actually older thinkpads core2duo 1,8ghz / T61 / 14,1" 1280x800 / 160gbyte / 2gbyte / intelgraphics NO NVIDIA = buggy but you dont know if
you can get these for down to 60 - 90â (1$ = 0,89â)
sometimes along with the docking station or even with a 15,4" / 1650x1080 TFT
Even considering it's age it's decent machine, the keyboard quality is unmatched.
Apply an unofficial SATA2 patch install a solidstate drive and you have a boost.
x86-netbooks
atoms, atoms and atoms, and celerons
not as p
CHIP, the $9 computer (Score:2)
https://www.kickstarter.com/pr... [kickstarter.com]
Failing that, why not "ubid.com?" after all, their TV commercials claim you can buy a Macbook there for twenty bucks!
Then, when you can't, sue them for false advertising, and use your windfall to purchase all the kids some laptops.
Winbook 7" Win8 Tablet for $60-$80 + Linux (Score:2)
My 0.02 (Score:2)
I'd love to see something for $20 that any student could afford easily, or perhaps I could just gift to a few students.
$20 is simply not realistic for new gear.
1) The very cheapest Chromebooks are also in the $170 range.
$170 will get you an HP Stream 11.6 with a celeron, 2GB ram, 32GB SSD and windows 10. Better than chromebook I think. And I see $140-$150 for a chromebook. At least in the US on amazon.
2) Android Sticks have been around for a while, and do cost in the $20 range, but don't seem to have matured into a generally usable technology. Surprisingly, there doesn't seem to be a community effort to easily turn these Android sticks into Ubuntu/Mint sticks.
And they'd need peripherals.
3) Students can't be assumed to have the technical know-how to fix up a Salvation Army computer (I wouldn't mind helping out a bit, but I don't want to turn into tech support)
Which would be inevitable.
4) A Raspberry Pi costs $70 once you include a case/power supply/etc, and students would receive a big bag of parts.
Does that 'etc' even get them a screen? Are peripherals free?
5) Cheap Windows Tablets have glitches, and don't have an HDMI out.
They need HDMI out? To connect them to what exactly? They don't have $140 for a chromebook, but they have $100+ HDMI monitors, and $30 bluetooth keyboards?
6) There isn't a good solution to using a cell phone as a desktop computer.
Because current
Rasberry PI. (Score:2)
USB Keyboard $1
USB Mouse $1
SD Card $1
Micro USB Cell phone charger $5
You have a fully functional Linux desktop computer.
Sure you can spend more and get a better computer, but this one will get it done on the cheap.
Is the HP Stream Laptop to expensive? (Score:2)
http://www.walmart.com/ip/HP-1... [walmart.com]
Microsoft Office 365 is on these for a year or students can use the free Google office apps. Students that don't have Internet at home can go to a public library after school or on weekends or visit a McDonalds, Starbucks or other place where free Internet is available. Generally, one does not need to buy anything to use the free internet in those places. Depending on where you live and your local ISP providers (Comcast), if incom
Hmmm ... (Score:5, Insightful)
At the end of the day, you can't demand parents buy computers or can provide access.
Unless there was a stipulation that the kids have it, you might be stuck.
So, maybe we can rephrase the question: I'm a complete prat who is going to insist my students have access to computers even if they don't now, what's the best way to do this?
Maybe you need to be having this discussion with your principal and/or school board. You simply decreeing students get computers might not actually mean anything other than you want it to be the case, and no matter how good your intentions are it might not be possible.
People living hand to mouth don't need some teacher telling them they need to buy a damned computer.
This whole question smacks of someone who is a little clueless and out of touch with reality due to not enough real experience.
I'm surprised your district allows this (Score:2)
In our school district, it's all Apple stuff -- iPads for students, and a lot of Apple hardware in the libraries and so on. I'm guessing Apple has a pretty steep educational discount, as our district isn't particularly wealthy (we aren't particularly poor, either). The vendor is kind of a secondary consideration to the curriculum, though -- and the teachers and staff integrated the Apple stuff into the curriculum so they are using the same applications across the district, so instruction is consistent and a
Turing machine (Score:5, Funny)
The only DIY paper computer! Turing complete*
*with an infinite strip of paper, not included
Assorted thoughts (Score:2)
Check their pockets (Score:2)
Even students without traditional computers at home likely have very servicable smart phones in their pockets. Fairly capable smartphones are available at very low prices or free with contract. There's even the so-called "Obama Phones" (cheap phones and cell service offered to various government assistance recipients) that some students may have.
With that in mind think about how you can get them to use those devices they already have to not only access resources but do their homework. Do some research to fi
Not hard (Score:2)
Go to the source (China)
7" Android tablet ($25.73)
http://www.aliexpress.com/item... [aliexpress.com]
Tablet case with built in keyboard ($4.97)
http://www.aliexpress.com/item... [aliexpress.com]
Under $35 and they are usable, my wife and daughter have used them a lot. ;)
I have several around the house used for general browsing, remote controls for the Kodi systems, and e-book readers.
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That's the problem. The OP is looking for something substantially more affordable. It's easy for those with some reasonable income to not realize just how tight things are for the poorest members of society.
That said, I think there's a real limitation as to what can be achieved at such low pricepoints. At about the $170 range you can have a decent screen, processor, storage, and RAM. As you go below that price point things have to be sacrificed. Unfortunately I don't see much in th
Re:Stream 11 (Score:5, Insightful)
Since the OPs school district isn't one that provides students with hardware, and some (increasingly more) do, then he/she has no business making it a requirement to have access to a computer in order to do their work.
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Not the same. In 1987, we would read the books or the mimeographed material, write out the papers on actual paper, and then could go into the 'media lab' at school to type it up on their typewriters. Today, the material is online and the kid must have online access just to read the needed material. Libraries close and there is usually a line for the limited computers they have (at least at my library). Neighbors don't run internet cafe's and assuming a kid can go tot he neighbor's house every day
Re:Stream 11 (Score:5, Interesting)
Something like the Stream 7 tablet at $100
They could get something way better if they bought used instead of new. My local Goodwill has usable laptop computers for $25. That is less than the cost of a single textbook. Most come with Windows and MS-Office pre-installed. As a bonus, some come with a photo collection of the previous owner.
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HP Stream 7 (Score:4, Insightful)
They provide students access to equipment at school, the op is asking for options for them to be able to work from home. For the most part $50 is going to be the very bottom, but will usually need some things added on to make them really usable, a $50 tablet is going to suck for typing reports without a USB-to-go cable and keyboard.
Something like the Stream 7 tablet at $100 (sometimes less) would be close, but fails the hdmi output they are wanting. Realistically they are looking at $75-$150 to get a decently usable general purpose type of system. The lower end requiring more assembly type of work and technical knowledge.
I think the HP Stream 7 is a very workable device, and often goes on sale for $80 or less. HDMI will become less of an issue with wireless display to SmartTVs (or cheap HDMI dongles that turn regular TVs and projectors to SmartTVs)
Reposting from yesterday's "Best Tablet?" thread:
I'm pretty happy with our HP Stream 7 that we picked up early this year. Win10 on it is fine. Win8.x wasn't as much of a pain as people would lead you to believe. The OSK is still crap, though (even after enabling the hidden full 104-key virtual keyboard), so I threw a bluetooth keyboard and also a nice mouse at it.
$20 BT keyboard http://www.amazon.com/Jelly-Co... [amazon.com]
$30 BT mouse http://www.amazon.com/Microsof... [amazon.com]
Runs Steam fine, much of my 2D game library works well. People have reported success getting it to boot Linux. Its main limitation is the 1GB of RAM which preempts a lot of multitasking, but for that price, you can buy one tablet for each app you want to run and line them up on your desk and walls and laugh maniacally.
The nice thing about the current proliferation of smartphones and tablets is that, unlike old power-hungry PCs, they're still pretty useful after you retire them to a life as a digital photo frame or weather station or garage door opener or baby monitor or dashcam or whatever.
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That said, I think there's a real limitation as to what can be achieved at such low pricepoints. At about the $170 range you can have a decent screen, processor, storage, and RAM. As you go below that price point things have to be sacrificed.
I think screenless is the best way to get to the sub $100 dollar or even sub $50 range. Most people have access to a TV or monitor.
I like the zotac ci320 zbox but it's over $100 and overkill for what this person is looking for. The better solution would be some sort of hdmi dongle.
A quick amazon search turned up this: http://www.amazon.com/Androset... [amazon.com] as well as several
mentions of "finless bob roms". Not sure if they are any good but I would think that would be a good starting point.
On a side note, I
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http://www.newegg.com/Product/... [newegg.com] - $50-$55, come in a variety of case colours, and has the basic cables included.
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Android 4.2 is a deal killer. Unless that model is supported by CyangenMod or other flavor, I wouldn't want an OS that old on anything new.
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Not to mention that typing a paper on one of those would be brutally painful.
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Realistically, this isn't for word processing. This is for all the other tasks and school/library/home computers can provide the rest of the functionality. In a pinch you can pickup a USB keyboard/mouse for $5 and hook it up.
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Android 4.2 is a deal killer. Unless that model is supported by CyangenMod or other flavor, I wouldn't want an OS that old on anything new.
Compromises have to be made somewhere to keep costs down. There's cheap and then there's "best practice", this is the former. A Pi is $20 more for a more up to date OS + hdmi cable but you provide the child labour to assemble it. There's trade offs with everything at that level.
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Pi is not a viable option because it isn't a complete solution on its own.
And not considering TCO is also a problem with "low cost" solutions, because if the initial cost is low, but ends up being a complete time sink for IT to support the "low cost", all you have done is cost shifted from product to services by IT. The cost of servicing IT devices is the bane of IT departments everywhere.
$20 is probably impossible (Score:5, Informative)
The best thing out there, designed specifically to address your concern, is the XO laptop by the laptop.org people for their "One Laptop Per Child" campaign: http://laptop.org/en/
Their price is $35 per unit, and they take significant cuts (and some creative solutions to be sure) to get there. They're not exactly readily available, particularly for US schools, but it may be worth talking to them. It's possible these would be enough for you, if you could get hold of them, but I'd consider them pretty under-powered for an applicable middle-school or higher education where there are other options.
The XO is a good data point for what you sacrifice going below the entry Chromebook or hp-11 style laptop, or even an android tablet with a keyboard. Also, it sets the bar at $35 so your hopeful target of $20 seems unlikely; the XO has been around for years and they probably can't go much lower, and you're not likely to get many people competing for this space, at least not for profit. The DIY kits (i.e. raspberry pi) you've already addressed and those are even more expensive. The idea of hooking to an existing TV (with an Android Stick) may have merit, but there's still the price of a mouse, keyboard, and a capable TV in the first place, so the real price is higher.
Anyway, I think you're going to be hard pressed to find better solutions. It's a noble goal, but the industry just isn't there yet, despite good examples of people trying. Hope this helps.
Salvage computers (Score:4, Insightful)
Consider involving others as a charity. You may want to talk to some salvage computer business. These folks buy computers by the pallette from govt and industry and schools. Usually these are less than 3 years old and in fantastic shape except most will be missing a hard drive. Almost by definition, anything you buy this way will have an easy to access hard drive bay (otherwise they just grind them up), so it's not too much of a hurdle to recondiution these. Now, getting one at a wholesale price is another matter-- they sell them for a profit. But maybe for a good cause you could talk them into sell you a palette at cost. If you are part of a school this might even be profitable write-off for them. Then run them off a USB stick entirely (128Mb $7 these days). Or if you can get some community organization like the Eagles or Rotary Club to volunteer to put in some harddrives. Let the kids install Linux off a live USB so they all get the same platform and apps.
That leaves you with something far better than an XO-1.
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Re:$20 is probably impossible (Score:4)
Have you seen how kids treat free stuff?
Granting that they don't treat stuff they paid for much better.
Winbook (Score:3)
I have a top of the line Winbook - 2GB/32GB upgraded to Windows 10 - and that cost me $100. If the student doesn't need Windows 10 and can do w/ Windows 8, s/he could use a 1GB/16GB equivalent for $80. I doubt one would get much cheaper than that.
If one has access to a discarded USB or bluetooth keyboard and mouse, then one effectively has a PC, which could do the work. Assuming that the software one needs - Office, et al - is already there. If you're talking about budgets, it's rather ridiculous to
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He said, as he sped off angrily on his horse and buggy.
Re:stop teaching (Score:5, Informative)
In the teacher's defense, what they teach and how they teach is mandated by the district. Today's teachers just aren't given the same flexibility that teachers had back in my day. Everything is 'standardized' now, including the schoolwork which is approved by the district.... and remember the district is 'sold' the curriculum by private companies who like putting stuff online because it's cheaper for them.
I keep telling people that the US got to the Moon with people taught in a classroom with books, chalkboard, and pencil/paper. Ipads are NOT a necessity for learning no matter how hard Apple tells you that they are.
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" Today's teachers just aren't given the same flexibility that teachers had back in my day."
That is not always a bad thing. I remember my 5th grade teachers used science textbooks from 1967 in 1976. Yes she had a bunch of new science books but she did not like to teach science and we would go weeks without a science lesson.
My sister had the same books two years later.
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Google Apps for Education is free to schools. Includes everything a school might need, including "Google Classroom" which is an excellent tool already.
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A google account poses non-monetary costs. It is not free. Forcing those non-monetary costs on children, before they can even consent, seems like evil to me.
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Ditto. Getting the kids used to giving up privacy for some online tools is not a good way to start them off.
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So you need an iPhone to run it? They don't have an iphone if they can't afford a $50 PC....
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You want a working computer for less than a $170 Chrome book? Well sure, who doesn't. But, no such thing exists. Seriously WTF kind of Ask Slashdot is this?
a monitor alone will set you back $100
Go on Amazon.com and type computer. there is your answer.
I know I shouldn't feed the trolls but this is an excellent ask slashdot. And if you have to pay $100 for a monitor then you are not thinking very hard.
17 inch CRT monitors can be gotten for LESS than free. Most places now charge a disposal fee for them. And that's even assuming you need a
monitor as even most poor students have access to a TV and as the OP stated, he wasn't opposed to a solution that allowed a keyboard to connect
to the smartphone the kids likely already have.
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Agreed for the term paper or research project. But today's kids are given daily homework that requires internet access. My kids aren't taught in class. The teacher assigns the online reading for them as homework. If a kid can't get to the library before it closes (i.e. wait for parent to get home to drive them), then they are shit outta luck.
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An HP Stream 8 can use the T-Mobile free 200Mb/month data. Although a low limit, it is enough for some light web access (email, accessing documents, some web searches).
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Pay attention for god sake. From TFS, he knows how to do it for $170, but that is too much. So you know it has to be significantly below that figure.
Oh shut up. What do you suggest? Windows? OS X? Do you think he can afford to "teach" those?