Software Packaging And The Environment? 415
jayhawk88 asks: "One of my users brought me Microsoft Street and Trips 2001 to install on their laptop yesterday. The box for Street and Trips is fairly large: a little taller than a regular software box, and about 1.5 times wider. The contents, however, are as follows: a standard size jewel case, and a 3-page folded leaflet, that is about half the size or a regular sheet of paper. I'm no environmentalist, but holding the entire contents of this over-sized box in the palm of my hand almost makes me sick. Clearly, this is simply Microsoft spending a pile of cash on packaging to be the biggest and shiniest title on the shelf at CompUSA, but it did get me thinking. Has there ever been a push to 'slim down' software packaging, similar to what happened with CD's in the early 90s? If not, should there be?"
Yes and no... (Score:2)
Keep in mind, however, that we're slowly moving away from shelf-boxes for software into online purchasing - I bought and downloaded Ray Kurzweil's Cybernetic Poet (shameless plug) with no paper, or anything else tangible, for that matter, being exchanged. Slimming down the package is secondary now to eliminating it entirely.
Start the push: (Score:5)
Why not submit Streets Plus (or something else even worse) to CR? It won't stem the tide but it might get people thinking.
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Compaq dropping MAILWorks?
Should there be? Sure (Score:2)
In a sea of many choices it's a way to make your product stand out. Theoretically, the better products should be more likely to be able to afford such packaging, but in truth, it can only be used as a very minor factor in determining quality.
Jerrith
ars@iag.net
It will not matter much soon... (Score:4)
This of course leads to the problem of getting all of your documentation only viewable on screen, but this will be acceptable because 99.4% of all software documentation is not even suitable to line a birdcage with to begin with.
all persons, living and dead, are purely coincidental. - Kurt Vonnegut
Mmm.. Product.. (Score:2)
There should be, yes. But... (Score:2)
The worst offender of useless packaging needs to go to the fast food places. They waste far too much on packaging.
Think theft.. (Score:5)
Golden Cocoon Award (Score:3)
Packaging standards (Score:4)
Have you ever noticed how just about every box on a store shelf is of a similar size and shape? Not just software, but cans of peas, soup, cereal, crackers, cookies, etc. If you make your package stand out too much, it won't fit properly and the stores will get mad at the manufacturers.
The other problem for software manufacturers is that if you make your packaging too small it won't be noticed as easily (that's the theory anyway). Marketers know that having a shiny box is very important in impulse decisions, same as with books, and if you make it small people won't see it next to el crapo title even if you have the hotest game of the year.
On another note, one of the more sensible packages I've seen lately is for Homeworld. It actually had a good manual in it, just under half an inch thick. Those big boxes started out containing those useful manuals of olde, but no longer...
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Eric is chisled like a Greek Godess
YES! PLEASE! (Score:2)
Maybe take a hint from Blockbuster? (Score:2)
thinking outside the box (Score:2)
but on a more serious note, our economy seems to be based almost as much on packaging (interpret the term "packaging" loosely) as it is based on the actual products (or lack there of)...i'm not a hardcore environmentalist, but how can we not see something wrong here?
Re:Retailers (Score:2)
But software boxes are not the same size, height or width. So it is possible to make the boxes smaller or remove it all together. I had a copy of Lotus 123 that was just a few books and a diskette, shrink wrapped.
Given the reduced importance of retailers and store shelves, it is possible to do away with packaging. It seems wasteful to have to ship a box when the CD can fit in an envelope.
There absolutely needs to be (Score:2)
The thickness of the box (Score:5)
Well, let's remember that the box is mostly air. It doesn't take that much more material to make a 2-inch-thick box over a 1 inch box (someone want to run a quick calculation? I guess about 5% more material).
In any case, compared to the volume of newspapers, magazines, and junk mail, I think computer boxes probably are about 0.001% of the total paper mass, much less total garbage mass.
If you want to focus on garbage generation, this is not the place. I could even argue that any paper really isn't the place, since that is pretty easy to recycle.
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Re:Retailers (Score:2)
I'm sure Microsoft is also paying slotting fees on the shelves of retail stores.
Slotting fees are de riguer at the grocery store, P&G, Coke, Pepsi, and others "rent" the space on the store shelves. If you don't, or can't pay, your wares aren't display.
Elementary marketing. Smart man, that Bill.
But good things come in big boxes!! (Score:2)
Let's look at some of the stupid wastes I've noticed and laughed at.
Wierd shaped boxes: Star Trek games. You know what I'm talking about. The box that looks like a damned communicator. Or worse, the ones that have the doughnut holes in the middle. What's the point of this? I guess to make people pick up the box.
Heavy boxes: Is that hard-covered 300 page manual REALLY a necessity?? Especially since it can be put in postscript format? OK, for RPGs this can be a nice touch, but I got Visual Studio 6.0 for my birthday. The box was about 5 pounds!! So many useless manuals that nobody would ever use! Including a 100-page WELCOME NOTE written on thick paper. I swear this stupid pamphlet accounted for most of the box's weight and it served no usefull purpose. Strange thing is consumers actually seem to take weight into consideration!! I've seen men and women holding competing software in each hand and seeing which one weighed more!! It's a funny site, I'm telling you. They buy softare like they buy watermelon.
Expensive boxes: Quake3 Arena. OK. It looked cool. But why did the box need to be made out of metal! This one was even worse: two guys I worked with at the time BOUGHT Q3A soley to get the metal box. .
Biiiigggg boxes: Ultima 9 started this. Anyone see that box?? It was MASSIVE. 'Nuff said.
I think as more and more people are owning computers and buying software, the less level of knowlege the general consumer has about the product. Just like cereal whose box is only half-full, I think in the future more and more software boxes will be dead space. Or dead weight. Or whatever else is wastefull and sells
Peace,
DranoK
That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange eons even death may die.
Paperless office (Score:4)
Re:Retailers (Score:2)
That is the truth, 2600 magazine has trouble getting sold anywhere outside of the monster stores because of it's digest size. None of the old sci-fi digests are in business any more, and that is supposed to be one of the reasons they went out. OTOH CDs used to be packaged in "LP" sized packaging because the distributers thought no one would be willing to stock CDs in smaller bins.
One solution to this is to go to a local computer store and see if they will order you an OEM packed version of the software. The OEM version tends to be a bit cheaper for them to get, which they like, and it also tends come in more environmentally friendly/smaller packages.
Walnut Creek CDROMs (Score:2)
ESD (Score:2)
I don't know how much the ESD idea has caught on, but it is intriguing, and if I ever paid for any software I'd use it :)
Re:Packaging standards (Score:2)
It's all about retail (Score:2)
I'm sure that the game makers know that they waste space like this, and if they could, they would reduce it, but no one will take the initiative. If you're the only company putting out games in a box that actually fits the stuff you're selling, you won't take up as much shelf space (though you may have the same number of copies), and it's easier to overlook the package for something that's bloated. Unless all the major software publishers switch at the same time, this won't happen.
At *least* the bulk of the packaging is cardboard which can be recycled in most cases. I generally do that and keep the colored printed part of the package for UPS symbol and whatnot.
(Of course at the same time, it makes me think of interesting software product boxes that have been used; the Marathon series were always a challenge...)
Re:It will not matter much soon... (Score:2)
I agree. I have very little use for CD-ware now that I have broadband at home as well as office. Actually, CD-ware annoys me. (But I see the benefits of hard-copy; just I can make my own!).
And, since moving to OpenSource software packages, I have even less need for CD-ware.
Re:Think theft.. (Score:3)
Instead of having a pile of 20 copies of some piece of software, have one box on display (empty) and have a little tag that you tear off and have the checkout person call for from "the back room".
Toys R Us does it, and it works fine. makes it so you can have a clean looking display with 3 or 4 times the stuff.
of course, for big releases, it would be a good idea to just roll a big cartful of the new whiz-bang software out and keep those little hidden chips in the shrinkwrap to set off those door alarm rigs if someone tries to run off with a copy.
OEM copy (Score:2)
Because no one will pay $129.99 for a CD! (Score:2)
Re:The thickness of the box (Score:2)
Ultimate Software Packaging Solution (Score:2)
Re:But good things come in big boxes!! (Score:2)
Heavy boxes: Is that hard-covered 300 page manual REALLY a necessity?? Especially since it can be put in postscript format? OK, for RPGs this can be a nice touch, but I got Visual Studio 6.0 for my birthday. The box was about 5 pounds!!
Especially since the Quick Reference, the God of All Books that came with Visual Basic 4, is sold seperately in book stores for a truly obscene amount of money....
(So I programmed in VB as a teenager. It was easy. And the Quick Reference was indeed the God of all Books on my bookshelf. Next to Lord of Chaos - what can I say, I like them big.) :)
Retail Packaging VS Theft (Score:3)
This has been a very common problem in retail stores, where the hardware profit margin is in the single digits, and you have to sell alot of software and peripherals to make it up.
Long ago and far away, I used to work in a now defunct retail chain. I can recall going through a store and finding empty boxes, merchandise gone. The complex fold over of the cardboard etc is thought out to prevent just this. Considering the cost of cardboard, vs 50 - 500 dollar product, the trade off is a pain, but understandable.
heck I can even remember people buying a computer, and then returning it, saying it was broken. We would take it apart, and it would be missing the ram, the harddrive, etc. We could not "prove" that they stolen it, but it was obvious that they had. [We didn't have the resources.] We even went to setting up the machine and and running it first, in the store, just to cut down on the theft. it was insane.
no wonder the chain went under. Some people have no morals whatsoever.
Re:manuals (Score:2)
kwsNI
Re:Packaging standards (Score:2)
Screw the stores -- it makes ME mad when the boxes won't fit on MY shelves. I hate it when manufacturers make their damn box a half inch higher than everyone else, just so I have to crumple the damn thing to get it to fit in my bookcase, or else move the entire shelf up two inches and screw up my perfect shelving layout just to accomodate one box with delusions of grandeur. ARGGGG...
Re:Think theft.. (Score:3)
Excellent point. Even music CDs are attached to that plastic extender-thingy (that's the technical name, right??).
This is another point in favor of download-ware.
However, download-ware removes the need for Your Local Computer Store . Unless the Local Computer Stores get wise and have banks of computers available for testing Your Favorite Software Packages (oh, the maintenance!) and have a download kiosk for CD-R burning in the store (after your credit card is processed).
Hmmm... Try Before You Buy-Ware . Then the savvy computer stores will make these banks of computers high-speed monsters to illustrate your intense need for an upgrade or new system.
Re:Think theft.. (Score:2)
-B
Re:The thickness of the box (Score:2)
Molog
So Linus, what are we doing tonight?
Re:The thickness of the box (Score:2)
You're mixing two concepts. There is the old "Why should we spend resources on XXX when we should be solving all the problems in the world". That's different from "I want to solve XXX, and we should start where we can do the most good".
The original poster's problem is either "there is too much garbage" or "too many trees are being consumed." Either way, if that's the problem you want to solve, then you focus your energy where it will do the most good.
It's a lot like news stories who focus on one person being murdered in a rich area, while giving short shrift to all the murders that happen in the inner cities, simply because there are so many of them, and the single murder is more rare and thus newsworthy. Yes, the single murder is significant, but the more significant problem that should get the most attention are the inner city murders.
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What I want to see (Score:3)
I actually tried to suggest this to them once, but I'll be damned if I can find an email address for them. I looked about 6 months ago--combed through the magazine, searched the online site: nothing.
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Compaq dropping MAILWorks?
Environment v. Profitability (Score:2)
Well, i am an environmentalist; just think how this kind of crap makes me feel, eh?
The way i see it, we could draw a neat parallel between the Libertarian bent of many of us
Libertarians want to have their rights un-trodden-upon, Open Sourcers want to have the right to view/mod/whatever the source code of their stuff... I, as an environmentalist, want to have the right to clean air, water, etc...
FWIW, i am unsure as to how anyone could not be an environmentalist. the way i see it, non-environmentalism is like non-spleenism (someone will correct me, i'm sure, if the spleen is not in fact required for the normal functioning of the human body).
We (all of us, environmentalists,
So, if the continued viability of the environment is a prerequisite for our (read: MY) existance, it is only logical that we should, each and every one of us, do what we can to prevent the further degradation of our life-support system.
That, and i think if i had previewed this sucker, i probably would have used less < b >'s
Re:Don't make the box smaller... (Score:2)
You *really* do not want that. You want downloadable manuals instead --- the problem is that a manual typically has to go to print 4-6 weeks (in the best case) before the CD is burned.
A lot changes in 4-6 weeks of development time, especially in an industry where a 1-year development cycle is average. Unless you can *enforce* a code freeze for that time (and if you can, I want to know how you do it), printed manuals = wrong manuals.
Softcopy is your friend
Other benefits to online purchases (Score:3)
Is This An American Thing? (Score:2)
I'm not sure if this is an American/capitalist society thing, or if this is pretty much standard everywhere.
Personally, I would prefer that all the software and games I purchase be packaged just like a music CD. Put it in a case that just safely and securely fits the product, put an insert in it, and leave it be. You can put installation instructions and contact information on the insert and put the product instructions on the CD itself. And since most people are online these days, you can make any 'extras' such as world-maps and data grids from games, available for download and printing.
It just seems incredibly silly that we should still see something the size of a jewel-case requiring more packaging than the box my freaking laptop arrived in.
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icq:2057699
seumas.com
DVD Cases (Score:2)
Sid Meier's Antietam! already shipped like this, and I beleive more are on the way. I hope so. They stack up much better in a bookshelf, and allow me to keep the original packaging, which is a nice touch.
Out of sight, out of mind (Score:2)
It is a safe bet that your computer is a bigger environmental hazard than all of the packaging for all of the software you are likely to buy for it. A very safe bet.
Regards,
Ben
Re:Retailers (Score:2)
Not true. The last time I was in the local book store, they had three or four different small-form-factor science fiction magazines on display. I have noticed that they aren't displayed in as many magazine racks as they used to be.
Re:The thickness of the box (Score:2)
My point was that considering the contents of the package, there's absolutely no reason to make the box that big, aside from the fact that Microsoft wanted to spend some money to make sure that Street and Trips would be bigger and flashier than, say, Delorme Street Atlas. To me, this seems environmentally irresponsible.
On a side note: I originally submitted this article about a week-and-a-half ago. Is this the norm for Slashdot submissions? I'm not bitching or anything, just curious is it normally takes the "Herd of Attack Geese" that long to sift through all the submissions.
Hey, Rocky! Watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat!
Re:Think theft.. (Score:2)
Display cases (Score:2)
One solution to this might be display cases: they take up the same space on the shelf as 4-5 'bigpackage' softwarecases, catch the customers eye but what you take home is just that slim jewel case (which has the added benefit of not cluttering up your shelf at home), there's even some cool variations about the jewelcase theme, music industry surly will provide examples.
Sometimes a CD is not just a CD (Score:5)
The comparison with music CD packaging doesn't quite work. Most people have some idea of what they are getting when they buy a music CD. With music, you are typically buying a kind of entertainment that you are already familiar with You've heard a song or two from it before, and that is the main reason you seek out that disc over the many others available in the store.
With software, consumers are buying the idea that this software is going to serve some useful purpose for them. Many people don't know if one particular package is what is right for them or not. Should it be Paint Shop Pro, Photoshop or CorelDraw?
The packaging convinces them that the product will make their computer that much more powerful and productive. That's a tough stunt to pull off in only 5.5 inches square.
Additionally, consumers perceive that the size of the packaging relates to the power and amount of features of the software inside. There is a reason that Quicken Basic comes in a slim box and Quicken Home & Business comes in a thick one. And it's not because they needed the room to stuff in a bigger manual. "It has the bigger box, so there must be *more* in there!" Consumers already get confused about what the difference is between the three versions. The box sizes let them know that they are getting *more* (if only in packaging) for their money.
Even commercial Linux distros do this. Compare the "Business" and "Secure Server" versions to the basic versions.
Do I like that? No.
But I'm not expecting the relationship between consumers and marketers to change enough for software packaging to become more environmentally efficient. Even with the move to electronic distribution. I know enough holdouts who want to hold something in their hands before they'll plunk down money for it.
Bringing quality to Anonymous Coward posts since 1999
The lack of email address is by design (Score:2)
There was a case about this a long time ago... (Score:5)
(I think that would work pretty well for a container of food or something. Every notice the indentations they put in the bottoms of shampoo / etc bottles, and around the middle sometimes, and then a nice tall plastic end-cap, probably to make it looke like you are getting more than you are?)
Re:The thickness of the box (Score:2)
Re:Think theft.. (Score:2)
You just haven't gotten good at it then. Anyone with a tiny razorblade could cut the plastic and adhesive along the edge of the box in less than 2 seconds. Then just slide your fingers in and pull the cd out and down the shorts it goes. Put the box back on the shelf and leave. I don't speak from my own experience here.. i speak from someone else's experience. :) Just trying to point out that a cardboard box wrapped in plastic is not much of a deterrant. There are much better ways that are probably less wasteful.
Re:Is This An American Thing? (Score:2)
http://www.gruener-punkt.de/en/index.php3?choice1= recht&choice2=grundlage
Re: Old CD cases (Score:2)
Now, I've heard of software that comes with trinkets or cloth maps, but that's just ridiculous...
Re:Maybe take a hint from Blockbuster? (Score:2)
Re:Retail Packaging VS Theft (Score:2)
Yeah, we used to see this all the time at the computer retailer I used to work at (cough..CompUSA..cough). It always amazed me at the gall of these people, what they thought they could get away with.
Customer: This computer I just bought doesn't work, I want a full refund.
Me: Well, were you aware that it doesn't work because the RAM is missing?
Customer (Oh shit look on their face): Huh, that's interesting. Guess it was bad from the factory, huh? Now, how about that refund.
Me: Well, it's highly unlikely this computer would have come without any RAM at all. See without RAM, a computer doesn't boot, and since they test boot these things before they ship...
Customer: Are you calling me a liar! Let me speak with your manager!
Sad this is, if they botherd to bitch to a manager enough, they usually got their way, and got at least a new machine. Meanwhile, the company has to go pay Compaq $350 for a 64 Meg DIMM, then turn around and sell the returned machine as a refurb for half the price of a new. I'm convinced that retail is hell for those computer people who were evil in their previous lives.
Hey, Rocky! Watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat!
Re:Is This An American Thing? (Score:2)
Unfortunately, over here in Europe, software packages are about the same size as in the US - and are filled with the same amount of air.
But that (at least in some countries) is the retailer's problem: e.g. in Germany there is a law, that retailers must take back all useless packaging if the customer doesn't want to take it home. The only exception is the direct packaging of food and cosmetics (you can give back the cardboard box, but not the bottle inside).
Re:Because no one will pay $129.99 for a CD! (Score:2)
Here's the problem (Score:5)
Computer software is different. Think of games, in particular, since that's where packaging really comes into its own. Some computer games will always require a large box... any Sid Meier game, for example. Many other games could be sold in jewel boxes, but those games still have to compete with the ones in large boxes. Even the most rational consumer couldn't help but pay more attention to the huge Falcon 8.0 box, with its three volume manual, than to the little Quake IV CD, sitting in a rack with hundreds of other identical jewel boxes.
Re:Think theft.. (Score:4)
Re:Because no one will pay $129.99 for a CD! (Score:2)
Re:DVD packaging (Score:2)
And playstation 2 games are coming in DVD containers now, with a little holder for memory cards.
Re:The lack of email address is by design (Score:2)
This really bugged me when I suddenly started getting a subscription. I hadn't signed up for it. So I wrote them a note asking them to stop sending me the magazine. They did, but not until they sent a second notice on the payment.
Grumble mumble.
-cpd
Re:The thickness of the box (Score:2)
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Re:Yes and no... (Score:2)
Of course, in this day and age, an even better idea than printing e-mails is to burn a copy of the program to CD, or at least store it on a Zip/Jaz disk. Include a copy of the e-mail. You're permitted to do that.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Think theft.. (Score:2)
-B
Re:if you didn't buy it... (Score:2)
The cardboard displays take up too much space. Software stores like to put software on shelves.
Re:There absolutely needs to be (Score:2)
ALL of the games for the aforementioned console systems do it with packages, do they not? I don't follow them very well. Suffice it to say that you're coming in equal with everyone else.
As for The Sims and Starcraft, it's unarguable that they sold on their own merit, but these are from publishers who have previous best selling games. It's hardly possible to discern the size of the box selling these games with so many other variables.
For those of you who don't remember.. (Score:2)
This was the /exact/ same argument that Audio CD Manufacturers used against jettisonning the boxes and just distributing the jewel cases. I remember Peter Townshend confronting a group of Industry folk and whining, "Gentlemen, you need to buy better browsers."
Unfortunately, less than a decade later, I don't think we have the kind of grassroots environmentalism alive to do this again.. There aren't any big media icons involved with software, aside from various CEOs and the 'Linux Nuts'. People are just sick of hearing about how their world is falling apart, because they keep doing the same stupid things, and many environmental concerns seem to have fallen to the wayside as just another story.
Re:There absolutely needs to be (Score:2)
Only if you didn't distribute the beta, maybe...
Jay (=
Re:Please get rid of the crystal case (Score:2)
Ah, the record cover that DESTROYED more other records than any other!
How about the Cheech & Chong record with the big
rolling paper?
Remember Gentle Giant's "Giant for a Day" with the
mask?
Led Zeppelin III with the window scenes,
or the original cover of Rolling Stones' Some Girls?
There was a Grand Funk Railroad shaped like a coin.
How about the stickers that came in every copy
of Dark Side of the Moon?
It is still true that the cover art is a bigger
part of the production budget than the CD creation (for many releases), but it was even more so back
in the day of album cover art.
Anyone here ever read "Atari Age" magazine? (Score:2)
There was a wonderful question from a reader in a subsequent issue. It read "If all Atari games look like that inside, then why do some games cost so much more than others?"
Beautiful comment. Whacks the establishment right square on the head.
The editor did a nice dance talking about copyright, R&D expenses, paying poor overworked programmers, etc. and fully, though unintentionally I'm sure, made for a complete bullshit explanation that failed to justify the **HIGH** costs of some games over others, which is what the question asked.
Software prices are arbitrary. It's price is "whatever the market will stand". MS, the SPA, etc. will PREACH about how it pays for development costs, paying starving programmers salaries, testing, debugging, marketing, etc.
This.
Is.
False.
e.g., there's no reason the full version of windows should cost $130 (and the upgrade $90). The $$$ generated cover staff and R&D in their first 0.5% of profits. And once recovered, prices do not go down. It's just price gouging, pure and simple.
If you compare total revenue from software sales / R&D and programming and staff costs, you will find VAST deviations from software item to software item. It's not about programmers feeding their families, it's about gouging gouging gouging GOUGING.
A bigger box lets the SW vendors gouge a bit more than they could get away with if everything was fit into a standard CD jewel case. That's all there is too it.
Re:Checkout the Slashdot Hall of Fame [hof] (Score:2)
So Slashdot has some holes in it. You don't like it? Read something else.
Video Games (Score:2)
The game developers stated that the publishers keep up with the huge boxes because they are afraid some small box would get lost amoung the rest of the huge boxes on the shelf. The developers also hoped that if one game shrank the box size, and sold well, that the rest would follow suit.
You can still fit a lot into a double-sized jew case. Look at Lunar: Silver Story Complete for PlayStation. It came with a good sized instruction book, 3 CD's, and a full-sided map!
-Kefabi out.
"More to recycle" (joke) (Score:2)
"It's in a big box, so there's more to recycle."
Re:Think theft.. (Score:2)
> that plastic extender-thingy
The only time I have seen these was in the USA. Here in Germany (and the other European countries I have visited so far), CDs are sold in their jewel case, with no extra packaging except maybe for a transparent plastic wrap around the album.
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Re:Is This An American Thing? (Score:2)
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icq:2057699
seumas.com
Re:Think theft.. (Score:2)
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Re:Packaging standards (Score:2)
"Sweet creeping zombie Jesus!"
It's probably my fault (Score:2)
http://www.masscom.net/~deadfish/donkey.html
Re:There was a case about this a long time ago... (Score:3)
I think that people want the whole package... I don't think we would even know what the phrase "packaged by weight, not by volume. Some settling of product may occur" would mean otherwise. There is a lot of psyc. in satisfying a consumer and part of that is to package the product well. If you want another example of this other than huge bags of potato chips and cereal boxes that are half full, go walk through a Barnes and Nobles or a Borders and examine the manufacturing of desire that book covers use.
-pos
The truth is more important than the facts.
Something you can do (Score:3)
There are tons of products out there on the market that are overpackaged. Andes Mints are a good example. If you look at a package of them, you will see what appears to be a whole bunch of mints through the cellophane window. Open the box and all the mints you can see are the ones you are getting. The rest is just cardboard.
Also, to the person that submitted the story: this type of stuff has as much to do with common sense and waste of money as it does with being environmental. TANSTAAFL. When you buy one of these oversized packages, the manufacturer is not giving this to you for free, ya know? You the consumer are the one paying for it. Hence, why I give the trash back to the store.
After all, why should I have to pay to throw away their overpackaging of my SIMM chips when putting the chips in a little container would be much better in the first place?
Germany has packaging rules (Score:2)
It turns out that (At least, I was told this) Germany taxes the companies with bigger packages.
Well, let's do the math... (Score:2)
let's assume, just for an example, that the average software box is 10 inches high, 8 inches wide and 1 1/2 inches deep. Now let's say that this slightly larger box is 12 inches high, 12 inches wide, and 2 1/2 inches deep. Finally, we'll declare that a CD is approximately 5 inches, by 5 1/2 inches by 1/4 inch.
Box 1 Box 2 CDSurface Area(sq.in.) 214 408 60
Volume(cu.in.) 120 360 7
So it seems that the slightly bigger box uses 3 times the volume of the average box, and about 51 times the volume of a jewel case. But who cares about the environment, we've got product to sell, and it looks damned fine in a large box.
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Computer store pressure... (Score:2)
Just something to think about...
Riiiiiight (Score:2)
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Re:Think theft.. (Score:2)
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Re: Every inch matters! (Score:2)
... (Score:2)
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This is all very good for the environment. (Score:2)
Cardboard is made from wood. Wood is made by trees sucking carbon dioxide from the air. When trees die naturally and rot, or are used for fuel, they release the carbon dioxide they absorbed back into the atmosphere.
We appear to have a problem with global warming from releasing too much carbon dioxide into the atmosphere, by digging up carbon-based fuels from deep in the Earth and burning them.
Think about it...
Wasteful cardboard packaging helps slow global warming by fixing carbon in the Earth.
Don't recycle! Subscribe to every newspaper and magazine that you're vaguely interested in and toss them in a landfill. Forms in triplicate and printouts of everything are part of a secret government initiative to stop global warming!
Re:The thickness of the box (Score:2)
The original poster's problem is either "there is too much garbage" or "too many trees are being consumed." Either way, if that's the problem you want to solve, then you focus your energy where it will do the most good.
The thing is, when you start protesting the demolition of our heritage forests, you get branded a commie-pinko hippie. Why not start where it's easy - like reducing useless waste, and start getting people into the right mindframe. This way, moving onto larger - more practical causes make more sense.
I'll make an analogy. You come back to your box one day, and you find that / is full (to make this easy, let's say you haven't partitioned your drive) what do you delete first? That core file in your home directory? All the pr0n from your browser cache? Or do you start parsing through /var/log/messages looking for the unimportant messages that you might not need anymore, and investigate further from there?
To get change quickly, you go for the easy parts
bottle of wine (Score:2)
Most true wines won't need this though since they don't ferment in the bottle. Champagne and other naturally carbonated wines usually do have stronger bottles (Thicker), and often the indented bottom.
I've had my share of homebrew beer bottles blow up on me before I learned to how much sugar to add and what kind of bottles to avoid using.
I think you missed half the joke (Score:2)
It just happens to be a pet peeve of mine that many self-proclaimed environmentalists don't have a clue about what does and does not actually have an environmental impact.
Cheers,
Ben
True, true. (Score:2)
Just remember what John Ralston Saul sez: NAFTA: Not A Free Trade Agreement.
Pope
Freedom is Slavery! Ignorance is Strength! Monopolies offer Choice!
Have you seen the latest AOL packaging? (Score:2)
I want to start collecting these in the back up my pickup and dump them all on AOLs doorstep some day...
-p.
Re:Here's the problem (Score:4)
>which used to be packaged in huge cardboard
>boxes, but now are almost always sold in plain
>jewel boxes. If shoplifting is an issue, the
>store can lock the CDs in reusable plastic
>extenders, which are annoying, but (presumably)
>not wasteful.
CDs in Europe and Asia were _always_ sold only in jewel cases, in the US, the RECORD COMPANIES owned the cardboard manufacturers and printers who made covers for vinyl LPs, when CDs came out, pressure was brought to bear that "a bigger display case is needed or shops will lose out, bands won't get coverage, consumers won't be able to see what's on the CD...blah blah" and thus was born the great cardboard CD display cover.
Other interesting packaging trick. At least one brand I'm aware of (On Technology maybe) used to package it's software in equally large boxes, but they were _WEDGE_ shaped, so you can't put anything else on top of them. Consequently the box is always on the top of the pile on your desk and is the first thing you look at.
Re:Think theft..[Getting Off-Topic] (Score:2)
Aha! That explains it. See, I live in LA County.... Have a look at the crime stats for our affluent neighboorhood [realtor.com].
Remember Slash Boxes? (Score:2)
All that ended when COGS considerations were given the upper hand after R12. The weight of printed material intially was cut in half and has by now gone down to zero. The books, if you pay for them, are small format with cheap-o binding and printing popularized by MS. The slash boxes are replaced by the standard perishable cardboard waste. (Meanwhile the reduced costs were not passed onto the VAR or the consumer. Duh.)
Why do I bring this up? Because there used to be a real need for boxes. Customers developed expectations about software coming to them in boxes -- the bigger the better.
This is a silly issue altogether. The packaging waste is trivial compared to the paper wasted in most offices -- including in software shops. And the fuel wasted in distributing boxed CDs compared to on-line downloads is arguably more significant.
More recently, Autodesk chose to ship the actual CD;s in a nice biodegradable cardboard case instead of a jewel box. Customers revolted. They hated it. They forced them to change back to jewel cases. In public newwgroups Adesk folks were ridculed, no, excoriated for pointing out the virtues of the cardboard cases. Oh well.