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Should Every Retail Outfit Have A Webpage? 89

Posted by Cliff from the it's-a-nice-perk-but-not-truly-necessary dept.
Kaz Riprock asks: "A few months ago, I was looking for a store where I could purchase AbraCabubble, a hard candy with gum center made by Brach's. I figured most manufacturers have a website with product locator and the closest store to me with Brach's bulk candy would do. After an hour or two probing the web with Google (like you needed the link), I was only able to come up with a few stock projections. This was amazing to me, because when I set out to find even the most obscure facts on the web, I usually don't come back quite so empty-handed, especially when looking for a presence for the third largest candy manufacturer in the US. Since then, they've put up a website. It's true that a business could get by without a web presence in this day and age, but what's the likelihood? What's the largest business that you sought lately to find an official page on and came up without anything to show for your efforts? Have they since come around and put a page up? I think it'd be interesting to keep a page (or even use this article) of companies that you should not expect to find a page on, so that at the very least, you'd find that page and know to stop looking. Thoughts?"
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Should Every Retail Outfit Have A Webpage? More

Should Every Retail Outfit Have A Webpage?

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  • Advertising (Score:2, Insightful)

    by MrWa ( 144753 )
    A business webpage is analogous to advertising, right? Seems some businesses, and industries, do just fine without it.

    It all depends on your target market, to an extent, and how much your business can be helped by getting information out via the web. With the number of people getting "online" increasing, I'm sure we will see more and more companies that don't already have a presence on the 'net, get one.

    The other side of this, though, is that the majority of people aren't online yet and this idea that a company couldn't survive without a 'net presence smacks of elitism.

    • No, goddamn it (Score:5, Insightful)

      by adb ( 31105 ) on Tuesday December 10, 2002 @12:26AM (#4851164)
      A business web page is not for advertising. Get a clue [cluetrain.org]. Retail store? I want your hours, I want to know what you have in stock and how much it costs so I know whether to go an hour out of my way to pick something up from your store today. Hardware manufacturer? Give me specs, make it easy for me to buy your stuff, and I'll cut out the middleman and give you more of my money. But I don't give a shit about your branding or your partners or your fucking synergy. It's just a few little bits I want, the basic stuff of doing business with you.
      • You're right. But I think it is important to note that advertising used to be the little bits: store hours, what's in stock, and sales. Somewhere along the way, it became the mess that it is. I think when the Internet came along, businesses just fell in love with the ease of information gathering, demographic stuff and the like, and forgot to keep their eye on the ball, their businesses.
      • I wish that this was true for all retailers' Web sites. As a woman, I find it so frustrating that some female clothing retailers (w/o mentioning any names) have Web sites with NO Internet shopping cart capability whatsoever. All it is, as the original arguer stated, is advertising, pure and simple. A lot of great Flash artistry and photography but not a lot of usefulness.
    • The other side of this, though, is that the majority of people aren't online yet and this idea that a company couldn't survive without a 'net presence smacks of elitism.

      It's not very elite anymore: According to something I heard on NPR this evening: 60% of americans have used the Internet in the last week. (Here in the SF Bay area, it's 75%.)
    • Funny you should mention corporate websites being used for advertising.

      I not so long ago sent off a complaint to Bell Canada about how their pop-up advertising made their site completely unusable.

      You can read more about it in my journal [slashdot.org], if you care. Their response was actually quite humorous, in a Masochistic sort of way.

  • Pointless (Score:2, Insightful)

    by tpearson ( 621275 )
    Having a website for every store would be both pointless and a waste of money. For most stores or the third largest producer of bulk candy, you'll have a good idea of where it is before going online. For the most part, businesses with web sites have them to sell their goods online, but do you really want to buy your candy online and then pay shipping and wait a week to get it when you can go to a mall or grocery store to get the same thing for the same price? Having a website would cost money, and like any other business, they'd pass this expense on to you. Just my $.02 tpearson
    • I disagree... You don't need a website that costs thousands of dollars to have a single web page that has a phone number on it (as opposed to calling information).

      It's not about advertising, it's about making it easier for customers who already want your product to get it. How many of us might get frustrated after only a few minutes and use a competitor's website? Frankly, I know I would... "Oh, Brachs doesn't have a website? Guess I'll look up Russel Stouvers(sp?)" Oops...don't know the spelling? Google will make me even lazier and fix if for me!

      Even a little "Mom and Pop" store can benefit - they don't need a full e-commerce site, but it might help a lot of people find them (if they have a map and/or directions), contact them (a phone number), know their hours, and even just a general description of the merchandise.

      I'm not going to argue that anyone without a website will fail, I don't think that's the case, but I do think a lot of people will look online first. Think of all the people sitting at computers all day - is it easier to get out a phone book, look up the number, call (disturbing an employee who might be doing something else), just to find out the store hours? Or can they type the store name into google and find it quickly? If there are nearby competitors, I might be more likely to go to the competitors simply because their information was more forthcoming.

      I don't know about "Brachs" and finding suppliers online (although it doesn't sound like a bad idea for such a company), but at least they could have the basics, describing their varieties, and having phone numbers for information, for distributors and retailers, and so forth. A nice little cheap static webpage that would require minimal maintenance (like if their phone number changes).

  • McBaby (Score:4, Informative)

    by singularity ( 2031 ) <nowalmart@g[ ]l.com ['mai' in gap]> on Monday December 09, 2002 @11:26PM (#4850656) Homepage Journal
    My mother was looking for a specific article of baby clothing she saw at Wal-Mart (do not get me started - I boycott the place personally, but it is hard to convince new grandparents). They did not have the size she wanted, so she enlisted my help to find the clothes on the Internet.

    The brand was McBaby. Apparently McDonald's (another non-favorite of mine) and Wal-Mart (horror of horrors, up there with Microsoft in my opinion) came together to create a line of infant clothing called, appropriately enough, McBaby.

    These are two huge companies in the U.S., including the largest.

    Wal-Mart does not carry clothing on their website, and a search of McDonald's turned up barely a reference to the clothing line.

    In short, the only reference I found to it was on used infant clothing sites.

    If you want to domain-sit something, I would suggest mcbaby.com [mcbaby.com].

    I do not suppose you can get much bigger than a joint McDonald's and Wal-Mart partnership.
    • Just a word of warning, McBaby is a registered trademark [nameprotect.com]. I wouldn't want anyone getting sued.

    • (non-troll - I truly want your opinion)

      Other than sheer size, and aesthetic concerns about mass-commodification (which I can understand your dislike of, if not necessarily agree with), what in particular do you disagree with about these companies?

      Control of marketplace? (legal unless otherwise proven)

      Unhealthy food that McDonald's serves? (a thousand others are as bad)

      Some sort of disagreement with minimum wage laws? (non-specific to these particular companies - that is a problem with a policy viewpoint)

      Concerns about anti-globalization? (aesthetic, I would think. *Specific* economical or policy-based arguements, please)

      I see people rail against large corporations, mostly under the guise of the the "anti-globalization movement" (whatever that hodge-podge of ever-changing alliances of otherwise-non-related fringe groups might stand for at that particular non-productive protest)

      My question is: specifics, please? What exactly are you against?

      • I'm not the person you were directing your question to, but try http://www.mcspotlight.org/ [mcspotlight.org]

        • Re:McBaby (Score:2, Interesting)

          by gmhowell ( 26755 )
          I seriously hope there are better arguments than this. The libel issue is the only one I saw of particular interest. An especially amusing item on the site: the Golden Arches are more recognizable than the Christian Cross. Yeah? So? Why would a Jew/Muslim/atheist/Hindu/etc/etc/etc care about a Christian Cross?
          • yeah, the mclibel video/doco is pretty interesting, I've never really read the site more than that though. It's just the first site that poped into my head as being "anti" mcdonalds. Of course google would provide better sites. The cross thing was just a stat to impress/shock or something?
      • Thanks for raising these points. What's the deal with Wal-Mart? Why protest them, then bitch and moan if they show up? If you prefer the local stores, then keep shopping there. If you and enough of your friends and neighbors agree, then the local shops stay in business. If not, then you have likely put the wants/needs of the minority ahead of the greater good.

        Also, who cares if McD's and others serve unhealthy food? Who held the gun to your head and made you go there? Who pried your mouth open and shovelled in the Big Macs and large fries? The big clown? Don't think so.
      • My dislike for McDonald's is largely personal - I just do not like their food. In addition, my stomach seems to have grown a dislike for the food, as well, and the few times I have eaten there in the past few years ends up with me sick to my stomach.

        Wal-Mart, on the other hand, is another beast entirely.

        I admit that a lot of the reasons I boycott Wal-Mart are out of personal choice. Wal-Mart is free to do most of the things it does, and I have the freedom to disagree with these and boycott them as a result.

        Some reasons, however, actually do have grounding in some severe problems with the corporation.

        My dislike for Wal-Mart began when I saw what they were doing to small towns in America. They were moving into these towns and then driving everyone else out of business. Well within their power, I know, but not something I liked to see.

        Wal-Mart then began their push for Super Wal-Marts (bigger, and with grocery stores). Often these new stores were within visual sight of the old store. Here is an interesting thing - try leasing the old store. Wal-Mart will not let you, for fear of competition. Once again, something they can legally do, but not something I like.

        Once they drive out competition in the small towns, selection falls. I have no evidence to show that Wal-Mart raises prices once competition are gone, but I think it at least possible they do not lower prices as much as they would in an area with competition. Selection, however, is an obvious thing to check out. If Wal-Mart does not carry something, it is impossible to get locally in a lot of small towns.

        Wal-Mart's decision to carry things can, at times, amount to de facto censorship and market control. Investigating Wal-Mart's decisions concerning CDs and movies it considers "indecent" will bring up many examples of this. Once again, not illegal, but Microsoft has its head on a stick on Slashdot for a lot less.

        Wal-Mart is very strongly anti-union. While I, myself, am not a big fan of unions, I believe there are times when they are still needed. Wal-Mart is a perfect example of this, and the reasons behind this are where Wal-Mart really starts skating on thin ice from a legal perspective.

        Even Wal-Marts attempts to keep unions from its stores have been investigated more times than you or I could count.

        Wal-Mart considers anyone who works 28 hours per week a full time employee.

        There are over 250,000 uninsured workers employed by Wal-Mart, one of the largest groups without health care in the United States.

        Wal-Mart moving into a small community does result in jobs, I agree. However, I would be very interested to see the numbers on jobs *lost* due to Wal-Mart (smaller stores and so on). In addition, there is a lot of evidence pointing to the fact that the people who lose their jobs and end up working at Wal-Mart generally (because of the 28 hour rule and lower pay rates) end up making *a lot* less than they were making before.

        This article [freep.com] lists some of the complaints currently lodged against the corporation.

        Remember the IP argument about leaked prices [yahoo.com]?

        • Re:McBaby (Score:1)

          by cdh ( 6170 )
          If all these small local stores are so good, then people will continue to shop there. If not, then people will go somewhere else. Some stores should not be in business. Just because a small store has been around "forever" doesn't mean that it should stay in business. Many of these small stores barely make it, their owners barely get by, can't ever take time off, are uninsured themselves and don't offer it to their employees, etc. Maybe they, and the community, are better off after Wal-Mart comes in.


          Wal-Mart considers anyone who works 28 hours per week a full time employee.

          Why is this a bad thing? Many people would love to be considered full time. If I'm missing something here, let me know (Seriously, I'm not trolling here). Overtime? Aren't the people working there paid hourly? I highly doubt that people working at Wal-Mart are paid "a lot" less than working at the local hardware/grocery store that Wal-Mart supposedly put out of business.
          • That's not true about small local stores not being good enough to compete with Walmart. If I'm out shopping, I try to buy what I want in one store. I'll think, "Hmmm... the fishing store on Franklin has a better selection of lures, but I'm already here so I'll buy what they offer". Eventually, the store on Franklin goes under. Most people do that, and then instead of a good local bait shop with helpful and knowledgeable employees, I'll be forced to go to Walmart.

            Walmart is involved in a class action lawsuit (in something like 40 states). They don't pay overtime, and they don't want unions forming to demand "benefits" like that.

            By considering 28 hours a full-time job, means you're not paid the same as a 40-hour a week job. By having you work 28 hours, they don't have to provide you with benefits.

            They also don't pay a living wage. There's a big difference between minimum wage and a living wage. It's not a bunch of high school kids working for spending money, it's people with families making $7.50 an hour. And how are you going to pay $400 for health care when you make $7.50 an hour?
        • Wal-Mart considers anyone who works 28 hours per week a full time employee

          There are over 250,000 uninsured workers employed by Wal-Mart, one of the largest groups without health care in the United States.

          Acording to this [business2.com], there are 1.28 million Walmart employees.

          Anyone who is full-time at WalMart can signup for health coverage, so those 250,000 must be part-time workers. Hmm, a retailer with only 20% of their workforce made up of part-time workers? That certainly doesn't sound too bad to me.

  • They get by just fine (Score:5, Insightful)

    by RaboKrabekian ( 461040 ) on Monday December 09, 2002 @11:27PM (#4850664) Journal
    It's true that a business could get by without a web presence in this day and age, but what's the likelihood?

    Well, I think your story makes it obvious that some businesses get by just fine without a website. The third largest candy maker in the country seems to have held its market share without some frivolous "where to find our candy" web application that would probably cost more to build and maintain than it could possibly bring in in revenues.
    • Except that they now have one. [brachs.com]
      • Yes, but the fucking bastards didn't include AbraCabubble on their list of products. If you want Bob the Builder Chocolate Covered Marshmallows, this site can tell you where to find them. If you want Dragon Ball Z Fruit Snacks, this site can tell you where to find them. But if all you want is to know where to find the fucking AbraCabubble then this site is fucking useless.

        God damn you, Brach's! God damn you to hell!

        (This message was brought to you by the spirit of the guy who writes the editorials for The Onion, which I was channeling at the time that I wrote it.)
        • But if all you want is to know where to find the fucking AbraCabubble then this site is fucking useless.

          But, surely, to get AbraCabubble, all you need to do is wave your wand and say Abracadabra?

          (This message was brought to you by the spirit of the guy who writes the editorials for The Onion, which I was channeling at the time that I wrote it.)

          I bet even with this disclaimer, you'll be down-modded [slashdot.org] as a troll.

          ;-)

        • If you are unable to find Brach's Candies & Fruit Snacks at your local retailer, please encourage them to stock your favorite Brach's products. You can also order Brach's candies on-line at: McKandy.com

          Look, there it is! [mckandy.com]
      • Yes but the "driving distance" box doesn't cater for the 9000 odd miles to the store nearest me. :-)

  • Poor Websites (Score:2, Interesting)

    by hackwrench ( 573697 )
    Except most businesses these days implement their websites so poorly. I want to be able to see the inventory of my local stores on the web and comparison shop so I don't have to run around, but no stores do that.
    • most businesses these days implement their websites so poorly

      Alas, the bottom line. Why bother doing something if you can't do it right? It took me two hours to find the product of an obscure manufacturer last week, for purposes of specifying them. While that is a hassle, and barely excusable (they manufacture equipment for telcos and networking), I don't expect the same of a fortune 500 company... no matter what their product!

      Even if they aren't making money with their website, they need to have a presence. It's kind of like salesmen...
      • Although I agree that many company web sites are poorly designed or are hard to navigate, we have to remember that a web site is not a company's primary means of communication. Anyone remember the phone? Instead of spending two hours on a web site getting frustrated, why not just call the manufacturer to get the information. 15 minutes and your done.
        • We can do that... or we can keep complaining so we can get the same information in a matter of a few minutes instead of 15 minutes of annoying phone menus...

          Just because something can be accomplished doesn't mean it's the best way. I just want them to have a better way...

          Besides, it'd be cheaper for them to have a decent website than a million people answering phones, wouldn't it? There's got to be some magic number at which point the website is more important.

          Certainly larger companies almost force you to use their websites, and threaten to charge you to speak to a live person.

  • Visa (Score:1)

    by kootch ( 81702 )
    I kept looking for Visa's website, but for some reason always ended up at evisa.com's site... which isn't quite what I was looking for.

    Oh well. I finally found it at www.visa.com
  • When I clicked over to bath and body works [bathandbodyworks.com] to buy a gift for my fiance (this scented soap that she loves) a few weeks ago there wasn't anything there except a single placeholding "coming soon" page. Looks like they've put something else out there now, but I would have expected to be able to order online, have it shipped and never have to set foot in the store. Oh, well, brick and mortar doesn't scare me, it's just that I don't get off campus much.

  • Essential (Score:2, Interesting)

    by redshift-systems ( 622407 )
    I think it is essential if you are any type of business to have a website. it would be myopic to think that just because you are not an internet savvy person yourself that others would not find a website useful. As a developer, I commonly come up against the internet nay-sayers, who just don't see its benefits. Or, which may even be worse, ask for things that they think is useful but just fail to understand their potential visitor. Even if it is simply an online brichure with contact details and an about us page, they can be a useful point of contact. And of course for b2b or ecommerce, well say no more, it is absolutely essential to have a web presence to attract more business.

  • I love Zours (Score:1, Offtopic)

    by tswinzig ( 210999 )
    Wow, what a boring Ask Slashdot. Allow me to introduce another, more interesting question.

    What is your favorite candy? I love Zours [zours.com]!
  • I've googled them before, but I can't find their catalogs anywhere online, I'm starting to wonder if they've gone out of business. Kinda sad. I miss going through their xmas catalogs and circling all the toys that I want to get.

  • different perspective (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Twirlip of the Mists ( 615030 ) <twirlipofthemists@yahoo.com> on Tuesday December 10, 2002 @01:40AM (#4851696)
    Hmm. I have read some interesting responses to this so far. A couple of them basically were of the form, "I want to be able to see a store's inventory and pricing, so I can comparison shop. If you don't give me that information, I won't shop at your store." I think somebody else also called not having a web site for your store "myopic," but I could have mis-read that post.

    Consider this question, though, from the point of view of the business owners. Having a web site, even just a brochure site, costs money. The only reason to do it is to drive sales, either indirectly (in the case of a brochure site) or directly (in the case of an e-commerce site). If the site doesn't drive sales, it's a waste of money and should be shut down.

    Now, how many more widgets do you think WidgeCo would sell every year if they made comprehensive inventory and price information available on their web site? Three, maybe four? That hardly justifies the cost of keeping the web site up, much less the cost of developing it in the first place.

    If web sites were free, I'd agree with your guys completely: everybody should have one, and it should have all the bells and whistles. But since they're not free, either to build or to operate, it just doesn't make any sense in a lot of cases.

    I think, based on what I'm hearing in my segment of the market*, that more and more businesses are starting to realize this, and either scale their web sites back, take them down completely, or-- just the opposite-- investing in them to turn them into e-commerce profit centers. There's not really much of a sensible middle ground.

    * I'm a partners in a fairly fancy-schmancy restaurant, and I'm a member of the local chapter of the association of professional chefs. At the last meeting, the conversation ended up on the topic of web sites. On one side of the table, you had some folks who had invested heavily in their restaurants' web sites, and who believed their business had improved because of it. On the other side you had the rest of us who were skeptical. None of the pro-web-site guys could offer any proof that their bookings had gone up because of their sites; over the same period of time, all of our bookings fluctuated by about the same amount, more or less. So it seemed to me, and some of the rest of us, that restaurant web sites are a big waste of time and money.
    • That's interesting to me because, of all the time that I spend on the web in general, it just doesn't occur to me that I might look at a restaurant's website before I go to dinner.

      Well, not entirely true: when I was looking for places to eat on Thanksgiving, I tried to use the web (and failed); I might look if I need directions; I might also look if you are supposed to have live music and I give a damn about the band that you might have--a useful website would have band listings. But mostly, you're absolutely correct, I think--a website just isn't very useful. Anything beyond 5 static pages of "brochure ware" running off an old portable (built-in power redundancy!) wouldn't be useful. And you probably shouldn't pay more than a few free dinners for the design, especially in this market.

      Even at that, you then have to pay either business class DSL or a colo fee, and so you're looking at maybe $100 a month. Maybe worth it, if you'll be using the DSL for other work computers, but it seems like kind of a lot for a dubious benefit.

    • Actually there's another reason for a physical business - like a restaurant - to have a web site, which is to be found in the first place. Think of it as a yellow pages listing - I'm sure you have one of those!?

      "Location based search" services on computers and cell-phones will increasingly be used instead of yellow pages to locate businesses.

      For an open-source example look at:
      mobilemaps.com [mobilemaps.com]

      Instead of a flashy, expensive website, all it needs is a single page with a paragraph describing the type of restaurant and including an address, phone number, and opening hours.

    • For an opposing viewpoint. I do prefer to eat at resturants that have webpages vs. those that do not. My wife has some special dietary needs and it's nice to be able to look at a menu and nutrition information before we go out to make sure that the resturant in question has selections that are suitable for her to eat.

      Though it probably doesn't apply too much to the fine dining area, I really like online ordering for takout food. Overall, I find it much easier to review specials and make my order online than it is to do the same over the phone. This is particularly true for ethnic food where the person answering the phone and I probably don't have the same first language.

      • My wife has some special dietary needs and it's nice to be able to look at a menu and nutrition information before we go out to make sure that the resturant in question has selections that are suitable for her to eat.

        I won't pretend to speak for all, but I can't imagine a restaurant that wouldn't welcome a phone call from you. Ask to speak to the chef de cuisine, describe your situation, and ask for his opinion. Chances are, he'd (or she'd) be only too happy to accommodate your special needs. I've even gone so far as to adapt recipes for customers who call at least a few hours in advance; I had one customer, for example, who wouldn't eat shellfish for religious reasons, but who wanted to try a dish that I normally serve with a lobster stuffing. A replaced the lobster with minced red snapper for her, and she loved it. One week when lobster prices went through the roof, I put the snapper variant on the menu instead, and it sold well.

        Though it probably doesn't apply too much to the fine dining area, I really like online ordering for takout food.

        Yeah, I'm with you on that one. Although there are two sides to that story, too. I've developed a relationship with the head waiter at a nearby Cantonese place, so when I want to order out from there, I just ask him to make us up an order for two, or four, or whatever. He always gives us something really amazing, and I can't recall having the same thing twice unless I ask for it specifically. Can't do that on a web site.
    • Actaully I travel a lot and the First thing I do is look up resturants in the City I am going. I want to see a menu and a map. Reviews would be nice as well. If you do not have a Website and I do not see your resturant between the Airport and the Hotel there is a good chance that I may never go there.
      My wife and I are thinking of moving. Again we looked up the town on the web and checked it out. My wife loves Sushi. No Sushi no way.
      Frankly there needs to be some way to find this information. Yahoo locations is a good start but you still miss a lot.
  • I agree that having the so-called "1 degree of separation" that Microsoft's been advertising for the past several months is a good thing. However, it's very, very hard to do. I think Home Depot [homedepot.com] has in-store inventories, along with CompUSA. The catch with this is being able to link all of your store's POS (Point of Sale, not Piece of...) systems into a national network safely, securely, and inexpensively. To do this properly you need a properly designed infrastructure, and people there to support it. That's where companies like the various Microsoft vendors come in. If you pay them enough, they'll build and support the whole thing. If you pay them enough.

    In all this talk about p2p and b2b, IT firms like MS seem to be forgetting b2c: "Business to Consumer."
    • Software is how I usually put it when speaking politely. The pregnant pause gets the meaning across quite nicely.

  • You know, this is a poser straight out of a certain module I took up last semester. My university is course extremely cyber-smitten; we have courses in (so-called) "New Media" - hypertext, cyberart and yes, "Themes in Internet Studies: Cyber Public Relations" (the module concerned), all fuelled by a 100 MBPS broadband connection and one of the world's largest wireless networks (I leave it as an exercise to the reader to figure out where my university is). This, of course, is in stark contrast to the university from which I transferred; that had about 10 terminals with satellite uplink. You had to register internet browsing slots before hand, and boy, was competition for registration intense. (The name of this university too is an exercise for the reader)

    The point of the whole matter is this:- I believe I've seen both internet-rich and internet-deprived worlds. My take on it:- everything depends on your target audience. If you're addressing a geographically-spread audience, the Web is your bestest bet, period. Cheap, near ubiquitous (unless you are in North Korea or Bhutan) and accessible. But, if on the other hand, you're manufacturing, say, durable-but-cheap-plastic chopsticks with Thai engraving, it's a good idea to focus on, perhaps, ads in the Bangkok Post and fliers at Sukhumvit Soi (that's downtown Bangkok).

    Note that size might not be a factor in geographical spread; while I have no idea about your candy company, a company could possibly get most of its requests from a single metropolitan area and still grow in (pecuniary) size.

  • A business does not need a web page. not even in this day and age.

    Businesses are still build with brick-n-mortar buildings and with customers. The web is not a prerequisite of either.

    The "if you build it, they will come" web page mentality was proven to be flawed with the .com bust.

    Besides, only retail stores and computer industry corporations will see the most customer benefit from the web. Manufacturers, suppliers, B2B outfits, warehouses, etc. have been and will continue to do just fine with out it.
    • The dealership that I work at has a site, as does our manufacturer. No, you can't buy anything on either site- ours is very basic, and the manufacturer's will direct you to us. One of the salesmen told me last week that he loved "internet customers," because a lot more of them buy than regular customers.

      Like most car salesmen, this one is fucking retarded. His "internet customers" did all their browsing and decision making before they got into his clutches. If we happened to have exactly what they wanted, they bought it. If not, the sales guys never even saw the customer- just one more car that came in, did a brief lap and left without ever getting out. There are three other dealers of the same make within half an hour, and the sales guys are too dumb to see the lost sales through the few easy sales.

      In this industry, location and traditional advertising hype get customers because they're almost all sheep. A web site takes the sale out of the salesman's hands and puts it into the informed consumer's. While this is great for the customers, no dealership is about that- it's about milking them. That's one hell of a reason to avoid the web. More customers isn't any help if they demand much higher inventory on hand and you have to give up too much profit on each one.

    • Ahh no.
      I was looking for a company to do injection molding. I look on the web.
      I need a company to do assembly. I look on the web.
      I am looking at building a homebuilt plane. I look on the web then go to Sun and Fun.
      I go on my Honeymoon. I looked on the web and found a great little bed and breakfast.
      Does a business need a webpage? Maybe not all but I think it helps and will help more in the future.
      Does a business need a phone? I bet if you asked this in 1900 a lot of people would say why do you need a phone?
      I use the web more than the phonebook. It is faster.
  • Yes, I think any retail outfit can benefit from having a presence on the web, even if they don't actively sell their goods. I especially like the idea of being able to put together an order online and then have the ability to pick up the merchandise at the store. This is a huge timesaver and can keep human beings from packing stores like sardines.

    That said, I think businesses grossly overestimate the value of marketing/demographic data they seem hell-bent on gathering these days. Not just businesses either. Whether you're purchasing goods or inquiring about a TV program, the fuckers on the other end of the wire are going to extract everything they can from you. How may terabytes are tucked away *every day* in SQL databases for name/address/e-mail address and phone number?

    Tip for small businesses who are getting their web sites off the ground: you do not have to become an intelligence agency. Collect only relevant information for your business, go to every length possible to safeguard your customers' privacy, and stick to *your* business model, not some marketing sleezebag's.

  • Here (In NZ) I would like for stores to have some way for me to look up current prices on the web.
    For example, recently when buying my ibook I found several stores which I could buy it through (on apple's website) and only one of those stores had a website. That meant that I was in a car to drive around the place to get prices (annoying to say the least).
    • That meant that I was in a car to drive around the place to get prices (annoying to say the least).
      Maybe they should just get telephones in NZ. Then you could call the stores for prices instead of driving to them...
      • I know you're joking, but there's a good point to made...

        Having a website is not necessarily going to generate sales, but if you make your business as visible as possible you will be less likely to lose business to the guy down the street who does have a nice usable web page.

        Even if you don't list prices... let's say I need to pick something up after work. I don't get off of work until 6:30. What I need is at certain types of stores (like Hobby, or perhaps Lumber... not the crap they sell at Lowes or Home Depot). So I'm just about to leave work, and look it up on the web. One company on my way home has a web page that say's "We're open until 8:00pm". The other doesn't have a web page.

        Now it's 6:30, and I can waste my time digging up the number, calling the store, going through annoying voice menus and finally being able to ask a salesperson (who could be doing something else useful) what their hours are... Or I can grab my keys and do the sure thing.

        Or how about this: I know the store hours, but I've never been to either place. I know they are both about the same distance out of my way. One website has a map, the other has no website. Do I call and ask for directions, having to write that all down and possible making a mistake? Or do I print out the map - perhaps the company with the website has a link to mapquest.

        You need to make it easier for your customers if you want to compete. The web might not sell things for you, but not matching competitors that are giving their customers an easier time will certainly cost you business. People are fickle (and generally lazy) and will take the path of least resistance unless they know they will save a lot of money.
  • What's actually a gas is all the small computer companies (mostly Mom 'n Pops) that think they can get by without a webpage in this day and age, or, almost as bad, with just a webpage that has their name on it, no directions to the store, and no catalog. It seems even computer companies can't "get it", and it strongly helps explain why there's an 80% new startup business failure rate.
    • What's actually a gas is all the small computer companies (mostly Mom 'n Pops) that think they can get by without a webpage in this day and age, or, almost as bad, with just a webpage that has their name on it, no directions to the store, and no catalog. It seems even computer companies can't "get it", and it strongly helps explain why there's an 80% new startup business failure rate.

      It's not just small companies. Fry's Electronics has several large stores in California, Texas, Oregon, and Arizona. However, for a long time, the only website they had was frys.com [frys.com], which only pointed to their ISP services. They had a link to the addresses of the brick and mortar stores, but that's all.

      They've recently opened outpost.com [outpost.com], which finally gives people a way to purchase goods on-line. But it is still separate from the brick-and-mortar stores, in that it is strictly an e-commerce site. In fact, even though they have the Fry's Electronics logo on the site, I see no reference to the stores on the site (though I only looked for about 5 minutes). Contrast that to Best Buy or Circuit City, each of which has a store locator prominently located on their web site.

  • I guess if I were creating something that people in the tech sector want, yes, having a web page is important.

    But, let's say you make custom wedding gowns or custom pepper grinders. While it would be nice to have a webpage, not everyone has the time/effort/money to do it.

    There are some people out there who are artisans and can't operate a computer, but their craft is so great people are put on waiting lists.

    This is all true. So, while it is convenient for us, it's not always convenient for them.

    c.

    • This is when a website might help the most. You don't need a full e-commerce website for such an operation...some graphics showing some of your creations and some contact number.

      And it's especially true of something like you describe - low volume by high price items, where ONE sale can make a big difference. If nothing else, having a webpage is at least as good as a yellow page listing, and doesn't have to cost much more. A simple, static webpage created by an off the shelf package on a low budget webhosting site (which might actually get you into some search engines). Put the website on your card, and give them to the bride to be... she gives them to a couple of friends or colleagues, they can look up some examples of your work online.....

      I just don't see how it fails to pay just to have the simple website anymore.

      Then there's people like me who simply don't even open phone books anymore - there's enough online that if you're not listed, I'm going to find someone else.

  • I recently bought the new album from a band called Sigur Ros [sigur-ros.com], an Icelandic band that just came through San Francisco. The band is somewhat pretentious, as many artists are, and refused to name the album or the songs, leaving you to interpret what the songs mean to you. Instead, the album simply has empty parenthesis on the cover. As a concept album, they wanted no text to appear on the CD sleeve, but they still had to give props to the production studio, mixers, former bandmate's sister's dog, etc... So all that appeared on the CD case was the URL [sigur-ros.com] Of course, the site contained all of the thank yous and credits. It seemed a lot more efficient to me, and gave them the freedom to express a lot more information about the compilation of the album and to present it in new ways. Also, the information only had to be recorded once, rather than remove a forest from the planet to release 1 CD. (Not that they were conservative with the number of leaves they used used in the booklet.) But it made me think that one day, all any product would need would be a URL. This would also allow the content to be dynamic if changes needed to be made. This would work for Twinkie ingredients, DVD extra features, or percent of post-consumer recycled materials used. Not that it would revolutionize anything, but packaging would be much less cluttered, and you would always know where to go to get product info. Of course for this to work, every retail outfit would have to have a web page.

  • These are some of my observations based on personal experience.

    I work for a small mineral exploration company. We use our website to disseminate information, provide an introduction to our projects, provide contact info and forms, collect data, etc. We don't allow advertising on the site, but we provide needed services in a place that has very few roads but is 1/5th the entire U.S. While there are print options, due to the widely varied and far-flung nature of our business, a web site is the most effective way for us to reach people. Yes, we tried some print advertising, and found that the webwork is more effective.

    I have also done some side work, setting up webpage and sites for small businesses. I don't do it anymore, because too many people want something beyond their financial or technological reach, and then want to change the color of the border in the third box on page 13 and could I do that right now? I still believe a web presence is an effective way to communicate for any size or style of business, or politicians, or whomever, but with the conditioner that the pages not be done in some crappy app like frontpage, not be done by the business owner (even computer and web service co.s), and the goals and objectives are realistic.

  • Yes (Score:2, Funny)

    by jdevons ( 233314 )
    Yes! Every business should have a website!

    By the way, I am available for web development at a very reasonable price for asp.net, j2ee, php and coldfusion... ;-)

  • The Brach's web site is suspiciously silent on the "What Happened to Helen Brach?" issue. I still suspect the butler.

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