Intermixing Cable TV and Internet Service? 39
AlphaSys asks: "I live in a small apartment community in the Southeast US. Broadband offerings are great in the area (both xDSL and cable). But the management company for the complex has their own 'cable' system in place by which they distribute programming from their satellite system to the residents. The rental agreement forbids anyone from getting cable service from any other provider (except DirecTV, etc.), which also negates our getting cable internet from anywhere, limiting us only to DSL. Here's where I'm going with this: is there any way the front office folk could get broadband service (T1 or fractional) which they could (via a router and multiplexer) then send down the wire with the regular TV signal like cable companies do? I work in networking but have no knowledge of how cable companies roll the two signals together or how you split it out at the customer end -- I just do Cat5/e/6 and fiber but I want to know if these guys can use their existing wire for this. I've searched Slashdot and googled my eyes out but I really can't find any pertinent information on how something like this is done. Does anyone have any information on how something like this is done?"
Say... (Score:2, Funny)
Simple Answer: (Score:2, Troll)
You signed a stupid rental agreement, live with the consequences or move.
Re:Simple Answer: too simple (Score:2)
We can look for alternatives in our present situation.
We can share information about alternatives.
We can tell providers/vendors/paid-pushers that their terms are limited by our needs, not the other way around (and they can "take it or leave it").
We can educate each other on ways we have found to make our living places better by ourselves, rather than moving until we find someone willing to offer what we need, and not take it away later.
I think that's why a lot of us are reading and writing here.
Still, I think yours is an interesting perspective.
You need to install a CMTS (Score:5, Insightful)
Doesn't require CMTS (Score:5, Informative)
The only problem with this scenario is that most PCOs (private cable operators) use the bare minimum amount of amplification needed for a decent signal and don't control signal leakage well. This means that the signal strength an carrier to noise ratio in the apartment may be insufficient. But this would be a problem whether or not the PCO installed their own CMTS.
-Alison
Re:Doesn't require CMTS (Score:1)
- Peter
Re:Doesn't require CMTS (Score:2)
A CMTS is very expensive (around $80k) and this solution is very cheap (around $5). Sure you have to buy connectivity from the cable company on top of that equipment cost, but we are still almost certainly ahead of the game buying from the cable company.
-Alison
Re:Doesn't require CMTS (Score:1)
Re:Doesn't require CMTS (Score:2)
I don't see why a cable company wouldn't do that, since they would still be able to charge each customer individually for their connection. It's just a matter of working out the details with the people in charge. Of course, the people in charge have a way of being hesitant to try new things, but this one seems like it's incredibly easy for them.
-Alison
Re:Doesn't require CMTS (Score:1)
Re:Doesn't require CMTS (Score:1)
The problem is DOCSIS won't be only using frequencies below 55 MHz. The upstream frequency will, but the downstream frequency will be above that. That is the one that will need a custom made window filter to isolate that 1 channel. Some Band pass filters are cheap, but for something like this you would need a filter with a very sharp frequency cutoff in order to isolate a single channel without allowing any bleeding of adjacent channels. That type of tolerance will not be found in a simple $5 part. Why won't the cable company do that? That would be alot of work for a small number of customers. For the prices most cable companies charge for cable modem service, would the extra support needed for this 'non-standard' setup be worth the returns? I would think that most cable companies wouldn't even consider it
Re:Doesn't require CMTS (Score:2)
-Alison
Re:You need to install a CMTS (Score:3, Informative)
different frequencies = different services (Score:3, Informative)
Pirated? (Score:1, Insightful)
they distribute programming from their satellite system to the residents
I wonder if the satellite company knows they are redistributing their signal?
Re:Pirated? (Score:3, Informative)
I wonder if the satellite company knows they are redistributing their signal?
Something tells me I should be moderating this as troll, but I'll respond since I don't have the points.
You've probally never lived in suburiba if you are asking this question. Many of the "condo" type aprtment complexs have this setup. They have several big dishes on the complex, converters and multiplexers in a room somewhere, and they provide cable TV to the whole complex. The cost is usually built in to your rent, and it includes a limited number of channels compared to your local analog cable service. Although it does usually include a Movie channel or two.
They have contracts with the networks/satalite people to do this, and it is very wide spread.
Re:Pirated? (Score:1)
kinda cool though, my wife's grandparents live in a retirement center and one of the channels they get piped in this way is the feed from the video camera at the front gate. of course even i had trouble making out the different cars coming in, but it's something...
Re:Pirated? (Score:1)
one of the channels they get piped in this way is the feed from the video camera at the front gate
And with a $40 modulator, and whatever the cost of the camera, you could splice that kind of thing into you own cable.
Re:Pirated? (Score:1)
That's über-groovy.
Re:Pirated? (Score:1)
I lived in an appartment complex where this one company serviced every appartment with 'cable' (the feed was comming from their sattelite dish). It worked out okay.. except they didn't even carry all the local channels, which I know is illegal these days. This was also the beginning of cable modem days... and DSL wasn't around yet. Talk about getting ticked off at your apartment complex. Moved out for that reason.
I know since then, however, they changed over to real cable (Comcast).
Cable Network Tech for hire (Score:1)
Hey, you get the CMTS and the T1, and I'll come out and hook up your whole complex, from cable modems in the apartments to CMTS and router configurations.
Expensive? (Score:3, Interesting)
In a word, yes. (Score:3, Informative)
Re:In a word, yes. (Score:2, Funny)
Restraint of trade? (Score:3, Interesting)
You might want to call up the local cable company and ask them what your options are. Just be sure that they agree to keep your identity confidential if the shit hits the fan (and it very well may, if your apartment complex is violating a legally mandated monopoly) - it would be easy (albeit stupid) for your landlord to attempt to retaliate if your legitimate desire for broadband access ended up costing them big bucks in fines.
Won't work (Score:2)
Why does the owner care? The satellite "cable" is probably a perk that draws tenants and the price to the owner is probably contingent upon its exclusivity. If the owner had to let another company run their own cables or use the existing ones (which could work for Internet only but not for TV), the cost of the sat. feed would go way up, enough that the cost combined with people choosing cable instead could lead to the cancellation of the sat. feed.
This is nowhere near a monopoly, this guy can just live somewhere else. If all the apartments in town were owned by the same company and all had the same rule, then would probably be a monopoly.
This guy probably won't get anywhere with the cable company. Even though it's technically possible, it's probably not worth it to them to implement and deal with a relatively oddball arrangement. He'd probably have better luck convincing the building owner to get something like a T-1 but it's costly and really, what makes it worth it just to avoid DSL? He can get good bandwidth from DSL, if he has some big problem with the service and wants Internet over cable, he can move.
Re:Won't work (Score:2)
In many cases the cable company has a monopoly agreement with the city. They are the only cable TV company allowed in town, and in return they will provide cable to every house/building in town. (Including houses where the cost to run cable is more than the income from residents who subscribe) If that is the case, then the apartment is breaking the local law by providing cable TV.
Re:Won't work (Score:2)
Re:Restraint of trade? (Score:3, Insightful)
We have a choice of two cable companies in Washington D.C. (Comcast and Starpower), but our building decided not to make a contract with Starpower because they refused to share distribution lines with Comcast. This means we would have had to allow them to run a second (redundant) set of cables from each stairway junction box to every unit. They won't even share cabletrays. Comcast might offer us a better pricing package, but they will insist on exclusive access. The only other option would be for the building to install its own wiring system between the apartments and the stairways (expensive, especially in a historic building), so we stick with the tyranny of Comcast for now.
But would it be cost effective? (Score:2)
But here is the problem as I see it. A T1 line just isn't all that much bandwidth when it comes right down to it. Don't quote me (I'm Not A Techie), but its on the order of 1.5Mbps. Thus, if you hooked up 150 apartments, and assume that 10% might be using it simultaneously (a low estimate), you are talking about a meager 150Kbps per user (I'm over simplifying, I know). But anyway, wouldn't this be pretty slow? Anything wider than a T1 is going to drive the cost per unit up enormously, right?
I get DTV DSL (not for much longer) and am switching to a new DSL service at the cost of losing my dry pair (dedicated line), meaning I'll have to share my DSL with my voice line (yuk!). However, even though I know something about this, and I am in a position to actually do something, I just don't see any economical options.
If anyone can suggest options that would make sense for a building of 150 units, I'm very interested! (If this generates enough interest I may resubmit as an Ask Slashdot...).
Re:But would it be cost effective? (Score:1)
stay -away- from apartment complex networks! (Score:2)
stop putting yourself at the mercy of your apartment complex management company.
Verizon Avenue (Score:1, Interesting)
I understand that they provide a solid product at rates highly competitive with the cable modem
www.verizon.com/avenue
Re:Verizon Avenue (Score:2)
"Verizon spent $295 million to acquire OnePoint in December 2000, and renamed the company Verizon Avenue. The subsidiary provides DSL access to condominiums and apartments throughout the country, competing with rivals BellSouth, SBC Communications, and Qwest Communications."
I had OnePoint at my apartment in 2000, and right after the buyout, my prices went way up. OnePoint was the only company in Northern VA to compete for local phone service. So much for antitrust regulation.... verizon sucks.
$2500.... (Score:1)