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Hacker-Friendly Wireless Phones w/ GPS? 49

Posted by Cliff from the geeky-preferences-sought dept.
Milo_Mindbender asks: "I'm looking to buy a cell phone that is reasonably accessible to hacking. Not illegal stuff, I'd just want to be able to write and load programs on the phone myself. I particularly want access to the GPS in the phone. I'm not picky about what language or environment I have to use as long no hardware mods to the phone are required and I don't have to pay someone an arm and a leg for a developers kit. Can anyone recommend something (just normal sized phones please, not the big PDA hybrids) they've had good luck with?"
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Hacker-Friendly Wireless Phones w/ GPS? More

Hacker-Friendly Wireless Phones w/ GPS?

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  • Nextel i730 (Score:5, Informative)

    by duffbeer703 ( 177751 ) * on Tuesday January 20, 2004 @12:47AM (#8028762)
    The i730 is a Java & GPS enabled phone that should fit the bill.
    • they even ran a competition to build an app that used the GPS

      not really looked at it to hard but it seems pretty nice I dont know where you are in the world but you should be able to import it use the java software and use a GSM provider of your choice

      I got a P900 and its great if you want a full JVM (it has the personal edition akin to JVM 1.1 ) and not sucky MIDP !

      yeah and most PDA's can get JVM which has the personal edition so code for the that and even your TV can use your app's !

      anyway have fun

      r
    • The GPS portion of the phone blows. I've set it on top of the dash of a car with a real nice swath of sky in front of it, and it would time out before aquiring enough satellites to get a fix. OTOH, one day I took it out to play with the GPS, and it seems that it had magically found some birds a few hours previous, while it was sitting on my desk, not far from a window.

      Compare this with a "real" GPS receiver, of which modern ones can acquire a fix within a minute or less.

  • Hmm (Score:3, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 20, 2004 @12:53AM (#8028795)
    You bought an N-Gage, didn't you?

  • Avoid Sprint PCS (Score:4, Insightful)

    by seinman ( 463076 ) * on Tuesday January 20, 2004 @01:00AM (#8028832) Homepage Journal
    Most (perhaps all, not sure exactly) Sprint PCS phones don't have user-accessible GPS co-ordinates. Instead, it just relays the raw data from the satellites to the Sprint tower to do the math involved to locate you. Of course, they don't let the end users have this data. I've heard rumors of them having an extra feature in the near future that lets you get the actual co-ordinates from them, but for an extra fee. So for now, i'd stay away from Sprint and look towards other providers.

  • If Perl is your thing... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by CertGen ( 591598 ) <sniff DOT scratch AT gmail DOT com> on Tuesday January 20, 2004 @01:01AM (#8028837) Journal
    ...you might be able to go with Nokia [slashdot.org] soon enough.

    IRC

  • VZW (Score:3, Interesting)

    by $Mr_Pippy_X ( 731721 ) on Tuesday January 20, 2004 @01:31AM (#8028960)
    Don't waste your time looking at any of Verizon's phones. I don't think that any have full GPS capabilities (just the tower-dependent form for e911), and none use J2ME. In fact, the only ones that can take non-BREW apps are the Palm and PPC hybrid phones. Almost all (if not all) of the VZW phones also prohibit downloading of ringtones and wallpapers over WAP, even on my Nokia 3589i. Sadly, Verizon Wireless seems to be gaining a stranglehold on the US wireless market, so good deals, phones, and features will be found elsewhere.
    • the LG 6000 picture phone has full GPS Capabilities and I know people that have hacked it a bit for ringtones and such.. just need interface cables I believe.. USB dongle??

      • Re:Not Exactly True (Score:5, Informative)

        by grotgrot ( 451123 ) on Tuesday January 20, 2004 @02:36AM (#8029253)

        He wants to put on programs. You can't (legally) do that with Brew. Also you can't get the GPS information on the VX6000 anyway. Just as proof, go ahead and put a hello world program on your VX6000.

        If you don't go the PDA route (ie Palm or PocketPC based phones) then get one with J2ME. You will have to stay far far away from Verizon and their Brew/Get-It-Now nonsense. This page [colinfahey.com] goes into details about Brew, J2ME and the restrictions of the various carriers.

        • He wants to put on programs. You can't (legally) do that with Brew.
          If you had access to the BREW toolchain, you could, theoretically, self-sign your app and put it on your phone. The self-signature would expire every three months, though, so you'd have to keep resigning and reuploading it. The problem is really getting a copy of the BREW SDK; that would be the illegal part, unless you have really deep pockets.
          • The problem is really getting a copy of the BREW SDK; that would be the illegal part, unless you have really deep pockets.

            Isn't the BREW SDK is free?
            • It wasn't last time I checked, which was admittedly about a year ago. It may have changed between now and then, but I have a J2ME-based phone now, so I'm honestly not too concerned about BREW at this point.

          • Re:Not Exactly True (Score:4, Informative)

            by Joe U ( 443617 ) * on Tuesday January 20, 2004 @12:28PM (#8032734) Homepage Journal
            Or you could just download the BREW SDK from Qualcomm. [qualcomm.com]

            Qualcomm and Verizon do not want to make it difficult to develop BREW apps, as they are a potential source of revenue.
            • The last time I looked into BREW development (which was when I was first looking into getting a cellphone -- which was about a year ago now) there were really high barriers to entry -- you would've ended up having to cough up about $3400, if memory serves me: about $1500 each for the SDK and testing services, and $400 for an official certificate to sign your software, the latter two of which are, from my understanding, absolutely required to get any carrier to even consider carrying your software.

              Granted,
            • Just buy a USB cable and use bitpim [sourceforge.net] to put whatever files you want on your phone, which include ringtones, wallpapers, etc. Also, if you have an LG vx4400, you can change your WAP setting (just research how to find your secret menu) to whatever site you'd like. Unfortunately, most brew applications need to be signed by qualcomm, but I'm sure there are ways around that, but I didn't tell you that.
              A good site for the LG vx4400 is http://aeonnfluux.com [aeonnfluux.com]. They have all sorts of info on the vx4400, which is a ve

              • NO NO NO! (Score:2, Informative)

                by Chuqmystr ( 126045 )
                BREW is evil! Run away screaming like girl! I've had a VX6k, have a VX4400 and a 3100. I also work for VZW overseeing their service techs. About the only thing good about the LGs is that they have decent radios. Other than that, they sux0r. All bitpim and GAGIN let you do is move files around and in the case of GAGIN, actualy install BREW apps. You have to have the Qualcomm BREW SDK and then obtain GAGIN (Big ol' stinky warez hack!) and only then can you put stuff on your phone. The other route is very pric
                • Yeah Verizon CDMA features = sucks.

                  Unfortunately everyone else's coverage (except AT&T TDMA) = sucks.

                  I'd *love* to make the jump to T-Mobile, but you can be driving down the street in San Jose and loose GSM coverage. And there's no excuse for being without signal in a major metropolitan area. Driving I-10 across Western Texas or something, sure, I'd expect spotty digital coverage. But I'm in the friggin Silicon Valley. Ridiculous.

                  And I can't comment on their data plans. No way in hell I'm paying
                  • "I'd *love* to make the jump to T-Mobile, but you can be driving down the street in San Jose and loose GSM coverage. And there's no excuse for being without signal in a major metropolitan area."

                    True dat, and what I reccomend to most folks is that they purchase their wireless as what fits their needs, budget and geographical coverage (meaning where do you travel and need coverage). Fortunately now days you can go to any carrier and try out their service for around 15 days no strings attached. If you cance

          • You can actually download the Brew SDK from the Qualcomm developer site. However all the legal nonsense you have to agree to before getting the SDK precludes doing what you described.

  • Treo isn't that big (Score:3, Interesting)

    by PiranhaEx ( 742431 ) on Tuesday January 20, 2004 @01:54AM (#8029082) Homepage
    Not sure about the hackability of PalmOS, but I would tend to think that it'd be pretty pliable. The new Treo 600s are the size of a normal cell phone, it's really amazing, so you shouldn't count it out based on size.
    • There's lots of great programming support for PalmOS!

      The main problem will be GPS on the Treo.

      You'll need a clunky cable, which is a big loser IMO. Ideally, you would have Bluetooth; there are Bluetooth GPS's that work great. However, while there is rumored to be a spot on the PCB for the BT ship, it isn't filed (Sprint doesn't want people using Bluetooth or other things that might add features Sprint would like to charge for).

      So, you'll have to wait until somebody comes up with an SD BT card with Treo

  • cryptophone (Score:3, Informative)

    by llzackll ( 68018 ) on Tuesday January 20, 2004 @03:36AM (#8029435)
    Check out the cryptophone. http://www.cryptophone.de/ [cryptophone.de] May not meet exactly the criteria the original poster is looking for, but definately a hacker friendly phone nonetheless. Has strong encryption, not the pseudo encryption used on most wireless phones. Works over GSM and both parties must have this type of phone.

  • Java? (Score:3, Informative)

    by d99-sbr ( 568719 ) on Tuesday January 20, 2004 @04:08AM (#8029578) Journal
    If Java is an option there are plenty of phones out there that support J2ME to some extent. However, to be able to do serious stuff, like TCP/IP you need a J2ME with MIDP 2.0, which is still quite rare.

  • Nokia 6600 (Score:5, Informative)

    by semaj ( 172655 ) on Tuesday January 20, 2004 @04:39AM (#8029726) Journal
    I don't know whether it's around in the US, but my Nokia 6600 [nokia.com] manages all that and more. You can install/uninstall applications, write them with the free SDK from Nokia and test them on their emulator.

    It's got a full-blown Symbian multi-tasking OS, and you might even be able to do what you want with MiniGPS [psiloc.com]. It cost me the equivalent of about $180, with contract.

    The important thing for me is that MAME [harmonicode.com] runs on it. :-)

    • Re:Nokia 6600 (Score:3, Informative)

      by exhilaration ( 587191 )
      MiniGPS allows you identify and store tower locations, that's it. It doesn't do "GPS". It's only useful if you want an alarm to go off when you get near your job or near your home, or if you want it to automatically switch to silent mode when you get near your church, or something like that.
    • In September the FCC finally approved the Nokia 6600 for sale in the US. It might be available from cellular retailers but I don't think any of the major GSM carriers are offering it. It might be possible to find a reseller that offers subsidys for contracts to get the price down. Nokia's come out with the 6620 which is a bit like the 6600 with EDGE support and a few more improvements and optimizations. Hopefully that means the 6600 will come down from the rather exorbitant $550 it is going for now.

  • nokia forums (Score:1, Interesting)

    by fabio ( 78385 )
    why dont you check out nokia forums? there is a lot of free SDk fot theri phones and you can get a lot oh help for whatever you are devloping, about the phone, get one with Symbian, preferably nokia 6600 og Sony-ericsson p900, the n-gage will do, but not in functionality only beacuse of the symbian

  • There are several sites out there... (Score:2, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    There are several sites out there...

    try http://www.cellphonehacks.com [cellphonehacks.com]

    ~GoAT~

  • OT (Score:1, Offtopic)

    by harrkev ( 623093 )
    Okay, this is slightly off-topic, but related (I guess). Feel free to mod me down AFTER I get an answer...

    I just got a Nextel i95cl phone. Where can I find documentation to do things that the vendor does not want me to do, such as download my OWN wallpaper (my wife wants a wallpaper of the kids).

    Web searches turn up mostly sales sites, with very little actual info.

  • java j2me location API or server-side WAP (Score:3, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 20, 2004 @01:02PM (#8033115)
    lots of phones have Java J2ME support. Perhaps you could find one that supports the location API (JSR-179)

    http://www.jcp.org/en/jsr/detail?id=179

    I have a sony ericsson T616. The T610/T616/T630 are very small normal phones (not PDAs) and support many of the optional APIs. I don't know if they support JSR-179 though. There are several links worth following from the above link.

    Also, I understand AT&T's m-Mode has a locator service, that let's you go to a web page to see where your friends are. Perhaps the application you could write your application as a server-side web/WAP application that uses m-mode. Many simple games, for example are WAP applications instead of code on the phone itself.

    I don't know any non-PDA phones that let you write C++ code and upload it. Most phones make your code run in a sandbox, such as BREW, J2ME or morphun. In my short experience, writing code for phones is a royal pain. You have to learn about all the different mutually-exclusive APIs/engines for the particular phone, only to find that none of them will let you do something you thought was simple (like add an entry to the datebook). Writing for PDAs is easier - it's more like writing traditional desktop apps.

    Hope that helps

    • T616 from ATT here also, I absolutly love the bluetooth feature so I can load midlets on it without paying ATT, and without having to connect it to the computer (well with wires I mean) neat little phone....now att on the other hand...lets see were on day 38 on the number portability and STILL no service...can't wait for that first bill ;)
  • Hmmm... sounds like you need a big PDA hybrid. In addition to being big, they're also PDAs. Why, funny that, looks like I'm running an ebay auction selling one right now!

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&it em =3072222516&category=38331&sspagename=STRK%3AMESSE %3AIT&rd=1

    Seriously though, I've seen people selling T-Mobile Pocket PCs with GPS attachments.

  • Nokia phones from AT&T (Score:4, Informative)

    by petard ( 117521 ) on Tuesday January 20, 2004 @01:40PM (#8033540) Homepage

    I'm not sure about the GPS side of things, but the most hacker-friendly phones I've found are the Nokias from AT&T wireless [attwireless.com]. They don't place any restrictions on the phones, and the development kits as well as software to transfer the applications are freely available for download from Nokia's website. Mine is a J2ME environment and has been fun to play with so far. AFAICT, they are the only ones in the US who have not restricted their phones.

    Lots of good developer info is available on forum.nokia.com [nokia.com], and some basic win32 tools are available here [nokiausa.com].

    Hint for buying one: Shop Amazon for the best price, then go to the AT&T wireless store near you to purchase. Show them Amazon's price, and they will often get close or even match it without requiring you to mail something in for a rebate.

  • Motorola C450 w/ Data Kit (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Java Modem GPRS Color Display (4,9096 colors) MMS/SMS Polyhonic Sound Dual-Band GSM (900/1800)
  • I'm not sure if this even works or if this fits into your budget and I know it definately doesnt meet your no extra hardware requirements, but maybe there is some way to hook up a bluetooth GPS receiver to the cellphone and get your work done. I haven't tried it...(BT GPS receivers are still a bit beyond my budget)
    It would be nice to know if anyone has had any luck with this kind of thing
    Gujju

  • The carrier is also important. (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Not just the phone, but the carrier is also
    important. There are a lot of phones which can
    be programmed in j2me, but some carriers, such as
    Verizon, have rigged their phones so that the only
    way they can be loaded is through their official
    portals, for cash. Others, such as ATT, are much
    more open platform. Look at

    http://www.colinfahey.com/2002dec14_j2me_cell_ph on e/j2me_phone_apps.htm

    as a good starting point.
  • I don't know of many phones with GPS. Perhaps you mean location services (which I believe is carrier dependent) or perhaps GPRS (which is just data connectivity, not location).

    Either way, you should probably look at a Symbian based phone, probably from AT&T. There's tons of development tools for Symbian... several phones that use it (I love my 3650)... and it's got all the features you could need (including Java and Bluetooth).

    AT&T also has a reasonably active developer's forum... and lots of
  • You're not going to get a phone with GPS. I believe the other poster was correct in stating that this is calculated on the provider's side using triangulation. I'm only speculating but that sounds reasonable. GPS is satelite based and fairly different from cell phone technology. The most hackable phones right now are the Nokia 3650, and all of its "Series 60" and "Series 90" cell phones. What other phone offers video? Additionally, I have seen a pseudo-GPS program available for the 3650. But all it does i

  • Sony Ericsson P800 (Score:2, Informative)

    by jgarland79 ( 665188 )
    The Sony Ericsson P800 [sonyericsson.com] can do GPS. Infact there is an app that will record the ID of the tower you are currently connected to and you can configure it to alert you next time you connect to that tower. It will also run Opera! As well as many other java apps.
    • What does the ID of the tower that you're connected to have to do with GPS? Sure, both can be used for locating you but using the tower is WAY less precise because one tower can cover a pretty large area.

      You might not even be connected to the closest tower if for example it's overloaded and load balancing causes you to connect to a different one.

      BTW Triangulation using cell towers could work but this isn't it either.

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