WAN/LAN/VoIP Training Other than Cisco? 106
skeezix-the-cat asks: "After 9/11, the economy tanked, and a lot of state budgets shrank drastically, especially IT budgets. I work for a NOC for a western state with a population as sparse as Wyoming, but not nearly as well connected that was particularly hard hit by the recession. Training money at our agency has been scant, almost non-existent since 2001. Security has seen some bucks, and Windows/Microsoft training of course for the LAN team but general WAN training has suffered. Cisco VoIP training would be swell, and it's everywhere (but in our state). I have one shot at top-shelf training, a week, maybe two. What else is out there as far as LAN/WAN/VoIP training that would cover VoIP and related in a non-Cisco format that still would translate into my Cisco environment?"
"Even with the lack of training, we do ok -- Cisco TAC is nothing to sneeze at, Qwest carrier services techs are available and (IMHO) second to none, and our WAN team is blessedly a talented bunch of self starters. We route, switch, tunnel and bridge just about any whacked out architecture you can think of (but no MPLS yet.....). Our WAN is insane --multi-vendor frame, ATM, private DSL, private-line, lashed to a Sonet-MGX core (among other aggregation schemes), you name it we do it.
It has come to pass that I have a rare opportunity for some honest-to-god paid-for training, and w/ VoIP barreling down on everyone, this is where i'm looking to throw myself with this chance. We are pretty much a Cisco shop, but some agencies are prevailing on non-Cisco VoIP solutions. I have CBWFQ successfully making VoIP work --VoIP 'trunking' switch-attached phones between multi-cloud-connected sites w/ ATM-- across select backwaters of our network, I grok the basics and can even make it work.
I'm no expert, but I'm to the point, having made it work in one or two locations, that I have some nuanced, technique questions even (queueing, etc). If the Cisco training is all that's realistically available, I'll take it and be grateful, be it Cisco VoIP offerings or (jeepers) CIT would be fantastic...arguably better/more useful than the VoIP stuff, per se.
Is anyone out there prevailing on any great WAN/routing/QoS/troubleshooting training that *isn't* Cisco? Management wants me to tell them what I want, and tell them soon as in within the week --before the money evaporates."
compTIA... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:compTIA... (Score:4, Insightful)
The poster could easily walk in and teach any of their network classes. I'd recommend he look elsewhere.
Re:compTIA... (Score:1)
I'm currently taking a Network+ class at the local college. The instructor repeats often that classroom time (about 64 hours) is only 1/5 of the total hours that Comptia recommends before taking the exam, and that getting an "A" in the class is not going to get you certifed. He also mentions that both Microsoft and Comptia will change their certification programs in the near future to require proof of act
Re:compTIA... (Score:2)
Are you serious? The MS TCP/IP test was harder than the Network+ test, not to mention the other tests necessary to become an MCSE, even a paper one.
I'm currently taking a Network+ class at the local college. The instructor repeats often that classroom time (about 64 hours) is only 1/5 of the total hours that Comptia recommends before taking the exam, and that getting an "A" in the class is not goin
Re:compTIA... (Score:2, Insightful)
Or any certification for that matter?
CompTia is there for a reason. You don't have any expierence, but you want to show you can apply somthing .
I just passed my CISSP Examination, and I'm going through their random audit for the minimum of 48 months of expierence.
I'm not belittling Network+ for what it's worth, but damn, dude. Don't compare a Go-Cart track to Nascar.
Re:compTIA... (Score:2)
I don't mean to knock your experience in the class. Depending on your background, you may very well need that cert to get you an interview. For somebody who's already in the field though, it's a waste of time. The MS certification path is
Re:compTIA... (Score:1)
The textbook I'm using has 800-pages of obscure details to memorize (which may be useful if you're designing a network) and the testing software is not easy in my opinion. (I would say that Microsoft Windows 2000 study book and software was
Re:compTIA... (Score:2)
I can't believe the rates some places are charging for courses for these tests. At the time I took them I was working as a tech in a local computer store with some networking out-calls to set up printers and stuff, and those were easily the simplest tests I've ever seen, even then.
Off topic 9/11 rant (Score:3, Insightful)
I just would like to point out that the U.S. economy was heading for a correction about that time. It has proven convenient for people to blame terrorism for problems with the U.S. economy rather than address root causes. Then again, perhaps the poster was not implying cause and effect here?
Re:Off topic 9/11 rant (Score:1, Insightful)
the economy had hit the official definition of recession in the summer before the attacks (those two quarters prior to the attacks made it a recession)
the terror attacks hurt an already weak economy, drawing out the pain of a recession even longer because we had a flat period in growth from then till about the next summer, after which the economy grew a tiny bit per qu
Re:Off topic 9/11 rant (Score:2)
BTW, who's the moron when they can't figure that out?
Re:Off topic 9/11 rant (Score:1)
Re:Off topic 9/11 rant (Score:2)
And yes i am from ohio as well. What that has to do with someone being a moron escapes me (i preffe
Re:Off topic 9/11 rant (Score:1)
Re:Off topic 9/11 rant (Score:1)
Re:Off topic 9/11 rant (Score:1)
But pay-your-own-training is becoming the norm in the private sector. It will likely spill over into the public sector as well. It is becoming an "on your own" economy under the new conserv
YDI (Score:2, Informative)
Just take the Cisco classes........ (Score:2)
The answer is yes (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:The answer is yes (Score:3, Insightful)
Who modded this down? I'm amazed at the number of people who refuse to learn anything unless some authority figure spoon-feeds it to them. People, give yourself a little more credit than that.
If you can't motivate enough for individual study, then select a book or two, form a small group and meet regularly as you work your way through it. Use the internet to find answers to questions that the books don't address. You won't get anything more
Re:The answer is yes (Score:2)
Re:The answer is yes (Score:2)
There's a lot to be said for being able to ask questions, or get clarification on the nuances of a topic, especially if it's new to you.
The study group is a good idea, but you need to find a number of other dedicated individuals that are going to take it seriously. That can be hit or miss.
Re:The answer is yes (Score:1)
New Kinetics (Score:3, Informative)
cisco vs avaya (Score:2, Insightful)
What have I learned about VoIP and different companies? Mostly that one company's management tools are a world of differenc
Seriously, Get some books (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Seriously, Get some books (Score:2)
I don't mean to claim CCNA and related are that hard, but when I took it I had a butt-slow simulator who ate up time while I was waiting for it to catch up with my typing! It really helps not to be fumbling for commands during the test.
Re:Seriously, Get some books (Score:2)
"To learn anything concrete."
"From anyway."
Geesus, man! I agree the Cisco Press books are well written, but your suggestion would have been more valuable if it included the passing of participles along with books.
Avaya (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Avaya (Score:2)
Take Cisco classes, then look at asterisk to see if it'll do what you need it to.
Chances are good that it will.
Re:Avaya (Score:2)
We're using it right now. We got stuck in a lease which kept us from changing. For the most part it works fine, but I don't think we use a lot of the capability.
Re:Avaya (Score:2)
Self-teach! (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Self-teach! (Score:1)
The poster is looking for WAN/routing/QoS/troubleshooting training that goes above and beyond the basics that the freesco FAQs will teach.
Re:Self-teach! (Score:1)
Your kidding, right? (Score:5, Insightful)
Our WAN is insane --multi-vendor frame, ATM, private DSL, private-line, lashed to a Sonet-MGX core (among other aggregation schemes), you name it we do it.
It seems to me that he is already trained and experienced in much more advanced WAN scenarios than FreeSCO could ever offer.
Does FreeSCO support frame-relay, ATM, private DSL, leased line or Sonet? No, I didn't think so. For that matter, does FreeSCO even support a rouing protocol like, RIP2, EIGRP, OSPF, IS-IS or BGP? Even Windows 95 can do the "routing" that FreeSCO does but, that doesn't make Windows 95 a router.
Re:Self-teach! (Score:2)
Is that like Free Tibet, or free drinks? I'm not sure I'd like it either way....
Re:Hmm. (Score:2)
Re:Hmm. (Score:2)
And the system they want to build? Yeah, it's an experiment for Homeland Security. They are actually trying to build several systems that are screwed up and cant talk to each other so they can use bubble gum, duct tape and bailing wire to patch them together
Re:Riddle me this (Score:2)
a few links here . . (Score:1)
Best way to learn... (Score:4, Informative)
I understand you want to get some formalized training while the getting is good. Don't blame you there.
But, honestly, the absolute best way to learn something like this is to do it. Download asterisk [asterisk.org] and start playing. You can even connect a free soft-phone (SIP) to it so there is really no up front cost.
IMHO, formalized training is only useful *after* you have already learned a good deal about the subject matter. It gives you a chance to organize all you thoughts that have been plaguing you, and have a compentent teacher answer them for you.
Going in cold to VOIP lab, when you leave you will understand some jargon - but most of the deep concepts will escape you.
Running Windows and Cisco (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Running Windows and Cisco (Score:1)
Re:Running Windows and Cisco (Score:1)
Upon the ice to frisk
Wasn't she a silly girl
Her little * ?
Mary had an aeroplane
Around the world she'd whisk.
Wasn't she a silly girl
Her little * ?
Little Mary took her skis
Upon the snow to frisk.
Wasn't she a silly girl
Her little * ?
There once was a soldier named Fisk
Who said, when the fighting got brisk,
"I'm sorry to say
that I can not stay --
I've got only one *"
Read. (Score:3, Informative)
You don't need a training class. If you go through the Cisco web site, you'll see that all of the manuals are right there. While lengthy, those manuals provide very comprehensive discussion around the specific commands/steps to implement the concepts. If you look at the tech notes, you'll find all sorts of information on the theory. Together, you get a comprehensive picture of both the high-level concepts and the low-level commands.
I just went through a CallManager/CRS installation, and spent most of my time reading the Admin Guides and the System Guides, and spent some quality time with the VoIP-specific IOS guides to setup my gateways. Really, look in the manual, and you'll see: Step 1: bla, Step 2: bla, To Verify Setup: bla. No training, no certification, just a working system. Those manuals are great, and TAC will help you out on the rare occasion you get stuck.
From your question, it really looks like you've figured out the CallManager stuff, and are now just optimizing your network. The thing to keep in mind about VoIP is that it's oIP. All of the knowledge that you already have about traffic optimization applies directly to the voice traffic.
Spend your training bucks elsewhere, preferably at a conference that takes you to Tahiti.
Re:Read. (Score:4, Interesting)
Vendor specific. (Score:5, Informative)
Your employer, a government agency, is unlikely to implement any of the lessor vendor's products. Furthermore, you will never see the likes of Asterisk or Skype while employed there. This all means that you should get vendor training from whomever your employer is most likely to implement. On the surface, it sounds like that would be Cisco but, check the telephone on your desk. If it is a Nortel phone, then there is a good chance that your state may implement a Nortel VoIP solution.
a few links here . . (Score:2, Informative)
Keep it simple (Score:2, Funny)
Sure, there's Juniper, etc. But the reality is that Cisco still has the most comprehensive, practical, network training on the planet.
Classes aren't good for much except the Lab. In the lecture they basically read the book to you, so if you can read for yo
Suck it up (Score:2)
Enlighten the guy who holds your purse strings about the ROI for training. Do some surfing and find some numbers and statistics. The folks who control the money understand that.
Best of luck!
SiO2
Re:Suck it up (Score:2)
Yeah, you're lucky - far too many people don't have a smart boss. It's unfortunate that makes you "lucky".
Enlighten the guy who holds your purse strings about the ROI for training.
Not to mention the whole point of a VoIP system is to save tons of money - so build some training into the budget.
Well, there is........ (Score:2)
It really depends on what exactly you are looking to learn. Are you wanting to learn a vendor's product? Are you wanting to learn software solutions? Hardware?
Some of the big VoIP guys that I am familiar with or have worked with are:
Some of them are hardware switches with VoIP capabilities. Some are PBX systems with VoIP capabilities. Some are software switches that do VoIP in software completely. Some are VoIP voicemail systems. Some are VoI
I was going to recommend.... (Score:2)
Personally I'd rather save the cash, read a book, and test things out in my lab. But that's just me.
Go with marketshare (Score:2)
Stats on voip manufactors [srgresearch.com]
Re:Go with marketshare (Score:1)
Do it in a different way (Score:2)
Don't use CBWFQ... (Score:1)
Re:Don't use CBWFQ... (Score:1)
December 16th (Score:1)
Management wants me to tell them what I want, and tell them soon as in within the week.
Or should that be December 11th?
Stay on dude, it's scary: Status bar [mozilla.org]
Resource for those who prefer self-study (Score:2)
Learn your basics first. (Score:1)
Cisco Networkers Online is a great deal (Score:2, Interesting)
However, you should be aware of another supplementary training option. Cisco's annual network technology training conference called Networkers is available online for about $300. You will get a subscription to the service for a year, during which you can stream audio and slides from any of the two-hour training sessions presented at the conference. The material ranges from introductory to very advanced, and inclu
So whch is it? (Score:2)
If you really want to learn ... (Score:3, Insightful)
I'll come and teach you ... (Score:2)
I hold the Cisco Certified Network and Design Profesional ratings and only the MPLS exam stands between me and the Cisco Certified Internetwork Professional ticket, which means I've had the pleasure of the Cisco DQOS exam recently.
I used to work for an international voice carrier and I've had my hands in various VoIP projects for about the last five years. I have one customer with a six node Cisco VoIP over low speed frame network, another with a five site contraption that does VoIP and video over poin
VOIP training bereaks down to two areas (Score:1)
asterisk aka * { http:// asterisk.org } (Score:1)
http://asterisk.org
than if you attend 1000 training classes!
Re:asterisk aka * { http:// asterisk.org } (Score:1)
Recently, I've installed 4 Asterisk PBX, and I'm configuring the 5th one, with multiple call queues, conferences rooms, remote agents (at home, with a soft-phone), call parking, voicemail (optionnally delivered to your email), etc.
Maybe you will not get any certificate from this, but what you will learn is invaluable.
That's the power of OSS : I can install Linux on a cheap computer (Duron 1ghz, 512meg), install Asterisk, and get myself a working VoIP PBX, and
Self-Study and Vendor Training (Score:2)
I see a lot of posts to this thread saying things like "read a book" or "use Google", and suggesting that all you need to do is download Asterisk and play with it. I would suggest that these people do not install and support VoIP systems in a production environment.
Reading and self-study are major components to learning a new technology, and I agree that a few good Cisco Press books will help you tremendously in the realm of learning complex concepts such as QoS. There are quite a number of online and d
Professional training.... (Score:2)
http://www.globalknowledge.com/ Look at their course catalog. They publish "Virtual Classrooms" at significant savings over classroom schools.
If you live in a remote area, you may need to travel for the classrooms. They're held in hotel ballrooms, 8:30 to 4:30 or 5pm. Many of the classes involve equipment and hands-on. The clas
Inter-Tel! (Score:1)