In Need of Repatriation Advice? 231
kir asks: "I've been living in Japan for the last 10 years -- 6 in the USAF, 4 in 'freedom'. My wife and I recently decided to move to the U.S. (back for me, not for her). I am wondering what advice the vocal Slashdot minority might give me. I'm most interested in tips on finding a job from here and gauging a proposed salary based on a location of which I know nothing. I'd also find helpful tips on preparing for culture shock (both my mild case and my wife's possibly severe one). Thanks!"
Culture Shock Advice (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Culture Shock Advice (Score:5, Insightful)
More Culture Shock Advice (Score:3, Funny)
Then comes the worst part - after about a year of speaking nothing but English and thinking in English she will forget
Queensland should do it (Score:2)
Start working on immigration now... (Score:5, Informative)
Also, don't assume that just because you're a citizen and are coming back, your wife can come back. If you married her overseas, she has no more legal right to enter the US than any other alien (IANAL, but that is my understanding).
My advice is to talk to an immigration attorney ASAP.
Re:Start working on immigration now... (Score:5, Informative)
I have an extremely important piece of advice with regards to this:
When you deal with the INS, you always deal with the office/branch at the location you first immigrated to. In my fiancee's case, this means the California INS. Even though she lives in Portland and hasn't lived in California for 5 years.
This absolutely sucks. The California INS is swamped with millions of Hispanic/Latino immigrants. I am not trying to make a negative comment about those folks, but the system is overloaded by the sheer mass of people and it will take YEARS longer to get through it than it would if you were going to a different office.
By no means should you enter the United States at California, or any other location with a heavy immigrant load!
Also, don't assume that just because you're a citizen and are coming back, your wife can come back. If you married her overseas, she has no more legal right to enter the US than any other alien (IANAL, but that is my understanding).
Would it be possible to get a divorce in Japan and re-marry in the US?
My advice is to talk to an immigration attorney ASAP.
I second, third, and fourth this advice!
Re:Start working on immigration now... (Score:4, Informative)
1) Having a screwed-up marital history in your case is going to make it much harder for her to enter the country and to get a green card when she arives. Keep things simple and honest.
2) Staying the hell away from the Japanese legal system is a good idea.
Re:Start working on immigration now... (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Start working on immigration now... (Score:3, Informative)
Would it be possible to get a divorce in Japan and re-marry in the US?
Not required. The worst case is the US will say your marriage is not recognized. In that case you just tell them you intend to get married as soon as you come to the US. You grab to witnesses off the street, head to the courthouse and have a judge marry you. Legally you are now wedded in the US. Once in a while you will need to put the US wedding date down on legal forms, but otherwise you can count the original wedding as your
Re:Start working on immigration now... (Score:4, Funny)
That sounds like a "lose, lose" proposition - not one, but two dates to forget!
Re:Start working on immigration now... (Score:3, Interesting)
Luckily, I've already done this. In fact, we got her re-entry permit as well (so she can stay out of the U.S. for two years - vice one - and keep her immigrant status). Getting one's spouse's "green card" is a pain in the rear, but can be made easier if you play their game. The folks at the U.S. embassy in Tokyo were very helpful... when I played along.
Re:My Advice? (Score:2)
'Get the fudge out'
Re:My Advice? (Score:4, Insightful)
Look really close. There are too many variables that you have not accounted for in those "facts". Go read "How to lie with Statistics" sometime.
Many of those differences are within the statistical noise.
Others are accounted for by different ways of counting, remember many of these numbers come from the governments who have an advantage if they skew numbers. For example some countries do not count children under 2 in their child mortality rate counts.
Few countries have populations as large as the US, a uniform population with far less outriggers bringing everyone down. Drop Mississippi from the US, and our math standing goes way up. How would Europe fare if they were not only all averaged together, but Yugoslavia was added in. (I'm not sure if you would count Yugoslavia as part of Europe, but that should help you understand)
Are those tests of anything useful? You can do much better than me on a test to define a lot of math terms, but if that test doesn't include using the math to do proofs, or otherwise figure, it is meaningless.
Re:My Advice? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:My Advice? (Score:2)
Re:My Advice? (Score:2)
Two weeks ago she failed three tests and passed two. She made it into a pretty good school in
Re:My Advice? (Score:2)
As I have heard from my German Language teacher (who is German) many european coutnries are required to accept everyone at the elementary level, but then start filtering students out at teh junior high (Secondary) and high school (primary) level. I would like to hear more, with specific countries reference
Re:All true, BUT (Score:3, Interesting)
Aside from the monkey trial from the 30's(?) and the sticker on the alabama books, I have heard nothing about any religious groups doing anything to science. Much less the dumming down part. Please provide references for this.
Oh yes, in response to your sig: Give a man a fish, he eats for a day. Tea
Re:My Advice? (Score:2)
Re:My Advice? (Score:2)
On the grounds where that is true you are correct. However there are millions (billions? more?) of factors in comparing a nation.
Example: Few nations have religious freedom. (Check your local laws, many countries have only one legal religion, they just choose to ignore followers of the others) That along is enough for some people to call the US better than most. (though it doesn't cover the few that do have true religious freedom)
Greatest just means that after comparing the priorities list of all th
Re:My Advice? (Score:2)
I didn't mean to imply that you had. I was warping back to the beginning of this thread, where the fellow posted an enormous list of reasons why we aren't.
Re:My Advice? (Score:2)
Dude....
Yugoslavia doesn't exist!
I pity all the Americans I see protesting "we're not ALL totally unaware of the world outside our borders", when people like you keep giving us Europeans reason to believe the stereotype ;)
Re:My Advice? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:My Advice? (Score:3, Insightful)
Back during the election cycle my wife showed me an interesting article about, "loving your country." A little child loves his/her mommy and daddy, and won't consider that mommy and daddy might actually be doing something wrong, or that they might need to change their ways. A mother and father love their child/children, realize they're not perfect, and that they need nurturing, love, praise, and discipli
Re:My Advice? (Score:2)
Yes, I can see how making a detailed list of flaws is the best way to show your love of your country.
Re:My Advice? (Score:2)
I think the point being made is that this isn't working very well anymore.
Re:My Advice? (Score:2)
Re:My Advice? (Score:2)
I know, let's get all of the smart, thoughtful Americans to move to Japan. That should fix America really quick. Right.
Re:My Advice? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:My Advice? (Score:5, Insightful)
By quoting statistics and data that show the US is failing to achieve, people are hoping to spread awareness and interest in the hopes that people can and will work hard to change the US.
The US now is a superpower with nowhere to go but down, and we will fall, and continue to fall, unless we take the bold steps necessary to change our ways. Only through criticism and willingess to force change will we ever become the nation we think we are instead of the nation we really are.
Re:My Advice? (Score:2)
Raising awareness is one thing. Posting comments such as
is just being a troll. And yes I realize IHBT'd.
Re:My Advice? (Score:2)
Re:My Advice? (Score:2)
Also, Institute of Himalayan Bioresource Technology (at least according to Google)
Re:My Advice? (Score:2)
Re:My Advice? (Score:5, Insightful)
Vocal democrats and "progressives" are echoing the same crap as they did in 1960 or 1930 or 1900. US society is full of inequities, injustices and plain stupidity, but those are things that come with all human societies.
If you think that the Netherlands, UK, Australia, Switzerland, Japan or whatever place you consider perfect are utopian societies, you are aptly demonstrating that you ARE the ignorant american that you dislike so much.
While you and your friends are screaming about Bush or the collapse of american society, you miss the benefits you take advantage of as an american.
You fail to mention your Federally-guaranteed student loans and cheap mortgages. You don't bitch about the highways that whisk you to your suburban home or the miracle drugs discovered thanks to government research.
I hate small-minded people. Particularly those who have nothing to do other than criticize and nothing to contribute over hot air. Right-wing, left-wing, a vapid windbag is a vapid windbag.
leaving is good for all (Score:3, Interesting)
then choice would be more limited. It is really nice
that the USA is different from the European norm.
It's not just that you should get out of the USA if
you don't like it. Europeans are welcome to come
to the USA if they prefer the US life. Here they
can buy lots of guns, choose their healthcare or
decide to take chances to save money, say that
Darl McBride is a crook (if true) without a
UK-style libel lawsuit, etc.
If people like you ever succeed, there will b
Re:My Advice? (Score:2, Informative)
The US now sees fit to enforce its laws even outside of its borders.
Re:My Advice? (Score:2, Interesting)
U.S. Foreign Policy States... (Score:3, Insightful)
I leave the exercise of Swiftian irony in completing these thoughts to you, the reader.
Re:Conditions in the U.S. are worse than you say. (Score:3, Interesting)
Let's start with your concept of the Bush family "oligarchy". Japan has had a documented oligarchy since the transition from the emperor-daimyo system that occurred after Commodore Perry's visit to the country in the 1860's. Said oligarchy brought Japan to be a major world player by defeating Russia in a war in 1904-1905.
Japan orchestrated the construction of an empire by means as
Re:Conditions in the U.S. are worse than you say. (Score:2)
Re:Conditions in the U.S. are worse than you say. (Score:2)
Dude,
I have lived in quite a few countries around the world. It NOT just the "USAnians" that live that way. They just happen to be somewhat more vocal than the rest. Shrug.
Re:Latinos? (Score:2)
Re:Start working on immigration now... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Start working on immigration now... (Score:4, Informative)
You definitely should figure out your wife's immigration situation and act carefully. The deal is this. As the spouse of a US citizen she is entitled to permanent resident status. However, the government can take as much as two years to grant her that status. Therefore, you either want to apply for it while you are abroad with a LOT of leadtime, or you want to get her into the United States first and then apply for it. So long as she enters the US legally, she won't be deported if she then applies for permanent resident status as a spouse.
The catch is that most visas, including tourist visas, have as an explicit condition that the applicant NOT intend to stay permanently in the United States. So, suppose your wife gets a tourist visa to enter the US. You then go to the US embassy and apply for spousal status. By applying for permanent residency as a spouse, she has just declared her intention to stay permanently in the United States and has thereby invalidated her tourist visa. What will happen in this situation depends on the immigration officer with whom she deals. Some may let it slide, but some are jerks and will cancel her tourist visa.
The upshot is, if you aren't prepared to wait to return to the US until your wife's permanent residency is approved, which as I say can be a matter of years, what you want to do is say nothing about her intention of staying in the US or her marriage to you and get her in on a tourist visa. Once she is safely in the US, she can apply for permanent resident status.
She should also be aware that once she has entered the United States and applied for permanent resident status, she won't be able to leave the United States with the assurance of being able to return until she gets her permanent resident status. So if there are things she needs to take care of in Japan, such as visting elderly or sick friends or relatives, it would be wise to take care of them before she leaves.
One other point. There are two main issues that the immigration people will be interested in in reviewing your wife's application. One is whether she is excludable for a reason like being a war criminal. You probably don't have to worry about this kind of thing. The other is whether your marriage is legitimate. They're on the lookout for fraudulent marriages entered into for the sole purpose of immigration. If you've been living together for some time in Japan that will help. Make sure you have documentation of that. They will also interview you individually and will be suspicious if you don't seem to know each other very well. Even if you do, be aware that sometimes cultural differences, or just idiosyncrasies, will have led to there being things that you have never talked about. So make sure that you each know about the other the kinds of things that American husbands and wives know about each other: personal history, birthdays, likes and dislikes, etc. If, as sometimes happens, you don't know her family very well because they disapproved of the marriage, bone up.
This is based on my knowledge of immigration law and of various friends' situations over the past 25 years. I am not a lawyer. You should check on current US immigration law and possibly consult an immigration lawyer.
Career (Score:2)
Regarding salary information... (Score:5, Informative)
As a personal recommendation, Saint Paul or Minneapolis, MN (or the surrounding area) is probably one of the best places for a tech-minded person to find work right about now. The salaries are still high versus the cost of living, and there are a lot of positive things about Minnesota... just so long as you don't mind the freezing cold in the winters or the massive snowdrifts.
Re:Regarding salary information... (Score:2, Informative)
I would recommend someplace on the west coast, as that's where you'd most likely meet more Japanese and have some of the comforts (like Japanese bookstores) that you'll be missing. Seattle, WA and Los Angeles, CA are the places I've found with a large Japanese presence.
And I do know what I'm talking about. I lived in Japan, and moved back to Minneapolis.
Re:Regarding salary information... (Score:2)
We're looking at the Denver or Springs areas.
stay there! (Score:2, Insightful)
Yes! (Score:2)
Re:stay there! (Score:4, Interesting)
Unless your answer is "more than six years" your advice is not exactly useful; not to say anything about the fact that we have no clue as to why he wants to get out of there.
I for one, would NEVER want to bring up a kid in Japan, with their fucked up educational system. ESPECIALLY NOT a kid that the Japanese consider "half". I spent fourteen years in Japan, ten of which were working in "education," so, I have a little bit of a clue as to what is what. I am by NO means expert
Re:stay there! (Score:2)
Re:stay there! (Score:2, Funny)
Re:stay there! (Score:2)
Re:stay there! (Score:2)
so your assertion is that the us hasn't put people in prison based on their ethnicity and/or religion without specific charges? that the us isn't denying people so detained access to lawyers? that it isn't using torture? that the attorney general didn't endorse it as acceptable prior to being confirmed? that it isn't creating a bankrupting debt that future generations will have to pay off? that one in six of returning iraqi war veterns don't qualify for a section 8?
Re:stay there! (Score:2)
Have you ever lived in Japan?
Re:stay there! (Score:2)
Most important advice: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Most important advice: (Score:2)
Don't (Score:2, Funny)
The US is not the same place it was 10 years ago. Lately it's become a rather unpleasant place to live.
I suppose some people would say this isn't sudden change but rather a slow change but the end result is the same: There are a lot of nicer places in the world to live... Move to one of those places instead.
Seriously!
Re:Don't (Score:2)
You can live in alot of different countries in the world and still enjoy U.S entertainment.
Re:Don't (Score:2)
Re:Don't (Score:2)
Re:Don't (Score:2)
Possible job opportunity (Score:5, Funny)
Click here [slashdot.org] for details.
Re:Possible job opportunity (Score:3, Interesting)
If you try posting as a real user, you might someday get real mod points.
This whole message and it's ilk are a huge experiment in futility. I'm sure you know all this. I do. Pretty much everyone reading this does. We all do it anyway beause i
Re:Possible job opportunity (Score:2)
Look left before you cross the street! (Score:3, Informative)
1) When you're accustomed to being a highly visible minority, losing that status can be at least as disconcerting as gaining it.
2) Not speculating on your particular relationship, but as a general observation
Re:Look left before you cross the street! (Score:2)
Your second point is spot on, but doesn't really apply to my relationship. My wife has some serious reservations about moving to the U.S.
Thanks again.
Do you need security clearance (Score:5, Interesting)
Upon his return he landed a job as a baggage handler at one of our airports. At least he thought he had until he was refused security clearance.
His sole mistake was living somewhere where the Canadian Security agencies felt that they couldn't verify his movements and activities while out of the country.
If you're considering government work you just might want to look into this ahead of time.
Re:Do you need security clearance (Score:2)
Consider Hawaii (Score:4, Insightful)
I have a friend who married a woman from Estonia (they met in the Peace Corps) and brought her back to Nebraska. She signed up for the local university.
It was very hard on her, and she ended up dropping out. There were a fair number of foreign students at the university, but it's pretty provincial here, and she had a hard time blending in and making friends. She was very unhappy.
I've had friends in Chicago who fared better -- there are quite a few people from other countries living in Chicago. Even if they're not from the same place you are, you can still compare notes as immigrants. I knew some Russian people in Chicago, and a girl from Viet Nam who got along better.
One friend, married to a Russian woman, moved from Chicago to Brooklyn, and I think she's a lot happier there. She can go to Russian neighborhoods (even though they don't live in one), speak her native language, buy Russian food, etc. It helps.
Having said all of that, I used to know a Japanese woman who was here in Nebraska doing graduate work at the University, and she seemed to like it a lot. So it can be done.
But she had a clique of grad student immigrant friends -- a woman from Bangledesh, and another woman from South Korea -- and she was here studying Native American culture, so professionally it was a great place for her.
I don't want to say something sexist, but I think it's harder for women to make these moves sometimes -- they tend to be more plugged into groups of friends, more social. It's harder if you're following someone else, too, and not doing it for your own reasons.
I'd adivse you to try to give her as much support as possible -- shoot for a community where she can fit in. Don't move to Utah, even if you get the best offer there.
Re:Consider Hawaii (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't want to say something sexist, but I think it's harder for women to make these moves sometimes -- they tend to be more plugged into groups of friends, more social. It's harder if you're following someone else, too, and not doing it for your own reasons.
I'm not expert, but generally I find women have less trouble making new friends. Historically (though I don't know if this is enough to matter) females have moved in with the male, no matter where he lives, which means females were more likely to ge
Hawaii? EXPENSIVE!! (Score:2)
Re:Hawaii? EXPENSIVE!! (Score:2)
Also consider Vermont (Score:3, Interesting)
lost in translation!! (Score:2, Funny)
shock (Score:4, Insightful)
I wouldn't be so sure about who will experience the biggest shock. When you go somewhere new, you are mentally preparing yourself for this shock, but potentially the biggest shock of all comes when you go back.
At least in my case that was a big eye-opener.
Anecdotal, I know, but it wasn't something I expected.
And since you have been gone for 6 years, many things will have changed. Since change is slow and always present, it only becomes clear after watching something with a long time in between snapshots.
think about the bandwidth... (Score:2)
A few random thoughts (Score:4, Informative)
Health insurance in the US is a giant pain in the ass compared to Japan. Try to shield your wife from this as much as possible by dealing with the paperwork. There will still come a day when some doctor's office gives her grief over some mundane insurance detail and she'll be furious at having to deal with this.
As you already know - customer service of all kinds is the US is a nightmare compared to what you are used to in Japan. This will bother you a little but drive your wife absolutely insane. Japanese people take it for granted that service workers do their job with politeness and a smile and as you know US customer service is hit or miss. On the other hand 24 hour stores in the US are way more convenient than Japanese convenience stores.
Japanese supermarkets in the US can be quite good depending on where you relocate.
Try to avoid friendships with Japanese in the US who are only here for a few years on overseas work assignments. As they go back to Japan it will devastate your wife. She'll do much better if she can meet Japanese women who are in the US to stay. This may be impossible at first but it might save her some homesick feelings. Even better would be to make some solid American friends but this isn't always going to happen right away.
The hardest part of culture shock is to stop trying to compare the two countries. There is always an urge to whine about some annoyance that is better here or better there. Try to avoid that urge and just accept the US for what it is and move one with life.
Good luck
Re:A few random thoughts (Score:2)
Also had another friend who was studying to become a dentist there and he told me that fluoride was not included in toothpaste products made in Japan. Some nonsense about toxic effects; the re
Re:A few random thoughts (Score:2)
Re:A few random thoughts (Score:2)
It isn't true that Japan does not allow naturalization. In fact, the Japanese government prefers permanent residents to become citizens. To become a Japanese citizen, you have to show that you have become culturally assimilated. They want you to be able to speak Japanese and adopt a more-or-less Japanese lifestyle. As part of this, they require that you adopt a Japanese family name.
Like people from other countries, Koreans can become Japanese citizens. Just being born in Japan does not confer Japanese c
Leave (Score:2)
It's not as great here as it was 10 years ago.
My opinion: The culture shock is huge. (Score:2)
My opinion: There is a social breakdown happening in the U.S. now, and it is very difficult to live there. People are less relaxed and happy than in the last 50 years. It will be really, really difficult to adjust to living there.
Location (Score:2)
Other recommendations: keep some of your money in Yen. I know the Y
Try Canada? (Score:2)
Go back to your hometown (Score:2)
As far as your wife is concerned (I'm assuming she's Japanese), you'll want to get her involved in something so that she meets new people and makes new friends. That is going to be critical, otherwise she'll be asking to go back.
And I'd make sure your finances are in order so that you can live for a while in the US without a job. It may take some time to find the right fit. Oth
Re:Go back to your hometown (Score:2)
And I'd make sure your finances are in order so that you can live for a while in the US without a job. It may take some time to find the right fit. Otherwise, interview from overseas and come over only when you have a job.
Oh yeah... that's the goal. It would be unfair to my family to pack them up and move to the U.S. without a job.
From what I understand (Score:3, Interesting)
By far, the biggest comment all of my co-workers have about the culture change, is that Americans are "uncomfortably" informal. My Japanese couterparts mentioned that it took them several years to adjust to the way Americans speak to eachother. You may also find that some Americans are somewhat uncomfortable with "over-politeness" (or our perception of it, anyway).
Finally, both Indian programmers mentioned that their Indian born and raised wives still have a very difficult time building meaningful friendships with American women. I don't know that I can speak as to why, specifically. But I can only imagine that the role of women in the United States must be very different than most other countries.
Culture Shock (Score:2, Interesting)
You will most likely experience a greater deal of culture shock than your wife.
Reason? She expects America to be a strange and foreign place.
You will expect it to be the same as it was when you last left it. If you haven't visited in 10 years, it's going to hit you a lot harder than it will your wife.
I spent four years stationed in Germany in the mid-Eighties and loved it so much I didn't bother coming home. When I did finally return I spent a week walking around in a daze. It seemed as if I had been
did it, coming from France (Score:2)
Your own culture shock (Score:2)
I ended up finding an international social organization ("for those living abroad and their friends") which helped significantly. All of us were going through the same thing and they didn't flinch when I said (for the millionth time) "It's not what I'm used to!"
In the end, I decided moving back was a mistake. I'm back abroad trying to find a job. I
what's her INS status? (Score:2)
I hope so....
if not, start with a good immagration lawyer in your new home town/area/same ins district NOW!
Try Atlanta... (Score:2)
It's a big with a warm/Southern feel and suprisingly, there is a significant amount of very intelligent people around here
Re:Try Atlanta... (Score:2)
I also think that "there is a significant amount" is grammatically correct. Please feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken.
Re:stay where you are. (Score:2)
Kids live with their spouse and families in two bedroom apartments -- and have to commute hundreds of miles.
Re:this article is SOOOO off topic! (Score:2, Insightful)
It appears as if you may have missed the entire point of the AskSlashdot section.
Re:A few things to expect (Score:2)