Printing (Big) Manuals? 196
Detritus writes "Many companies have stopped providing hardcopy manuals with their products, electing instead to deliver the manuals in the form of PDF files. This becomes a problem when you have an 800 page reference manual and you need a usable hardcopy that is double-side printed and bound. What is the most cost-effective way of turning a PDF file into a bound document? Cheap ink-jet printers are not designed to do this task at a reasonable speed and cost."
Work? (Score:5, Insightful)
We have several students working at our lab and the frequently print out materials for school. Then again, maybe our employer is just 'cool' about such things.
About your only other 'cheap' option is to just focus on the sections you need and print THOSE out.
Outside of that, take it to a printer (kinko's or something) and pay the cost to have it printed and bound (or at least hole-punched). If you NEED it enough, you'll PAY for it if you have no other alternative. Otherwise, your need just isn't that great.
Evil Hard Copy (Score:5, Interesting)
It's probably a good option to print the manual on a monochrome printer. The kind of graphics you see in most software manuals don't really suffer from being reduced to grayscale. Still pretty expensive, though.
It's very sad that programmers still feel the need to have hardcopy manuals, even as producing them becomes less and less practical. (Not just cost -- there's the difficulty of publishing and distributing physical documentation for rapidly-changing products.) For that, I have to apologize on behalf of my profession, Technical Writing, which has done a really lousing job of keeping up with the state of the art. We're still not good at creating the kind of well-structured electronic documents that make hard copy unnecessary. Even though most of our work never sees hardcopy, we're still horribly bound to desktop publishing models. We should delivering easy-to-use web sites and help files; instead we deliver stupid PDF files that are just huge page dumps. We don't even exploit the PDF format as much as we should -- it's a horribly obsolete format, but it does support some basic hypertext concepts that would be very helpful, if more people bothered to use them.
Then again, it's not all our fault. As I said, most techwriters are way behind the times in content management technology. But they only get away with it because documentation isn't a big priority. People in the software industry underestimate its importance and are unwilling to spend a lot of money on it. The don't grasp the skill it takes to do the job right, or the technical difficulties involved in creating and maintaining huge masses of documentation. Hint: it's not a lot easier than maintaining equivalent amounts of source code.
When I say "people in the software industry" I guess I mostly mean "developers". Whose perception drive a lot of decision making. Mangement often is dominated by former developers, and even when it isn't their decisions are colored by the code-hacker's view of reality. So maybe it is your guys' fault after all.
Re:Evil Hard Copy (Score:4, Insightful)
I hate online/on-screen documentation. It's a pain in the ass. Especially when you've only got *one* machine to both work with the program and read the documentation.
Or, perhaps the documentation you need is the service manual for your only (broken) machine that can read the documentation.
Dead trees are just flat out easier to use. For example, when I am working at a computer, say fixing someone else's code, and I need API documentation.
If I'm using online documentation, I have to dink around with the mouse (on-screen documentation is just about worthless to use with a keyboard... the one exception: Unix man). So, I take the mouse, click the button that brings up the documentation, then I have to scroll through and find what I'm looking for. Then I click again, and scroll. Click and scroll... blah. Then, once I have what I am looking for, I click back to the code and start to do what I need to do. Now, I can't memorize the specifics of a complex API call that fast, so I have to click back to the documentation... then back to the code, work... back to the documentation... back to the code, work. Then, if I think I need this again, I save it as a "bookmark"... accessing this bookmark takes longer than my tape flags on a real book.
The same situation using a real book? I use the index. This is fast. I see all the applicable pages at one time, and can make an easy guess at the correct one if the pages are numbered by chapter-page. I turn to this page in the book. I return to my code and read the documentation as needed, maybe turning a page on the book. The code stays on the screen the entire time, and for complicated stuff, I can do a side-by-side comparison without having to juggle windows around. If I might need it again, it gets a color-coded tape flag with a note on what code it applies to written on it.
We should delivering easy-to-use web sites and help files; instead we deliver stupid PDF files that are just huge page dumps.
Web site based documentation... seems like a good idea until you are working somewhere that doesn't have internet access. Like, say, the documentation you need is for the router that's going nuts.
"Help files" and "easy to use" rarely appear in a sentence where "are never" isn't what's in between.
Re:Evil Hard Copy (Score:4, Insightful)
You mention the difficulty of browsing online manuals when you've only got one monitor. True -- but look back at the costs I estimated in my previous post. A single 800-page manual can cost you enough money to upgrade to a dual-head display!
Re:Evil Hard Copy (Score:2)
Perhaps the real issue isn't whether or not we want hardcopy documentation. The real issue seems to be incompetent writing skills.
For tens of thousands of years one of the most important skills was saying what needs to be said in a concise and direct manner. Apparently the world has been overrun by people who feel better about themselves by doing just the opposite.
Call me radical, but anything that weighs less than a thousand pounds but requires 800 pages of documentation
Re:Evil Hard Copy (Score:2)
"Thousands of years"? Have you read any Victorian writers? Simple. precise prose is a pretty recent invention.
It's true that a lot of tech manuals are badly written, and a lot tech writers place too much emphasis on creativity. But I think you'll find that most 800-pag
Re:Evil Hard Copy (Score:2)
If there is a need to describe "lots of little things" then I reiterate: It's a horribly designed product. I wouldn't be using a computer to play music/send email/print docs if I had to code machine language from the BIOS on up for every task. They make 4-button CD players and 12-button telephones.
800-page documentation manuals are a direct result of featureware. Featureware
so like, (Score:2)
Thank you, I'll be here til Tuesday,
Try the veal!
Re:so like, (Score:2)
Summarizing the Bible's easy: Nothing really matters but be polite and considerate anyway.
It's really too bad that the people with the biggest mouths about doing the "right thing" have absolutely no concept of being considerate. Bankers, politicians, CEOs... most of them feel all good about themselves because they go to church but yet they feel absolutely no problem rewarding themselves with multimillion dollar bonuses while laying off thou
Re:so like, (Score:3, Funny)
Or, in other words:
"Be excellent to each other, and, PARTY ON, DUDES!"
Re:Evil Hard Copy (Score:2)
Sounds like somebody needs a second monitor. I've got a 21" Nokia CRT for my main display that I picked up really cheap second hand, and a cheap LCD display for viewing documentation. A browser with tabs on a second head is MUCH more convenient than page flipping, and colour coded stickies. The cost is about the same as a few decent text books. Its damn
Re:Evil Hard Copy (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Evil Hard Copy (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Evil Hard Copy (Score:2)
Re:Evil Hard Copy (Score:2)
I meant to say printing...
Re:Evil Hard Copy (Score:2)
Gee, ya think?
Re:Work? (Score:2)
Right, just as cheap IDE drives aren't designed to serve the Enterprise. It sounds like you need a RAIJ (Redundant Array of Ink Jets), and then you can complete your printout in minutes instead of hours.
Of course, you'll have to assemble the pages, but if your RAIJ has, say, 10 print nodes, and you're printing 800 pages, just send 80 sequential pages to each print node.
This is mostly tongue-in-cheek (the pl
Re:Work? (Score:3, Funny)
Cheap IDE drives serve the `Enterprise' (I assume we're talking about a business, not a naval ship, space shuttle or star ship, even though you've capitialized it like it's a proper name) far better than cheap ink jets do. When you work out the per-page cost, low-end ink jets are *expensive*, mostly due to the ink which costs thousands of dollars per ounce when you do the math.
Even the cheap modern IDE drives are pretty good.
Re:Work? (Score:2)
That's what RAID and backups are for...
Kinko (Score:2)
Re:Kinko (Score:2)
Re:Kinko (Score:2)
Indeed! I have nine 3" 3-ring binders of UNIX documentation that I printed out back around '99. Most of it is vintage tldp.org and a hardcopy of a LFS 3.2 book. At the time I had a Canon BJC-4200 printer and I think I went through about 5 ink cartridges over the course of two or three months. That amounted to about $150 in ink and paper is cheap.
The BJC-4200 still works but, as of about 2 years ago, it is impossible to find a good ink ca
Re:Kinko (Score:2)
If I think about it I suspect it's the ink. If I bought a syringe kit I'd fully expect to print pages of paper with ink blots all over them and end up with a printer with ink splattered everywhere inside.
Re:Kinko (Score:2)
You have to catch the original cartridge before it runs out, while it's still "wet", once it's dry you can re-fill it but it won't work, and if it's still almost full but dried out from lack of use it won't work either.
Re:Kinko (Score:2)
Re:Kinko (Score:2)
Kinko's isn't the cheapest or best option for the simple stuff, but they've got two advantages:
I do a lot of public-sector proposals that have to be delivered to the (potential) client by a very specific date and time, often with strange formatting requirements that boil down to "well, you have to use numbered tabs in a certain color scheme, or we won't consider you for this $500k piece of w
laserprinters are way cheap now (Score:3, Informative)
Re:laserprinters are way cheap now (Score:2)
Even a cheap laser without duplexing can still do two-sided printing. You just have to flip the stack over manually and print even / odd pages.
From the OP: " Cheap ink-jet printers are not designed to do this task at a reasonable speed and cost." No shit sherlock. Just figure that out yesterday? Why would anyone even CONSIDER using an inkjet for a 400 page manual????? The only time I use an inkjet is when I rea
Re:laserprinters are way cheap now (Score:4, Informative)
Read "some very specialized printers" as "almost any laser printer sold in the last ten years."
To be blunt, the way to tell if your manufacturer supports it is to ask them. Some very cheap, commercial-quality printers do this just fine. (The $150 Brother HL-1440 I use not only doesn't have a problem, but includeds a duplex printing mode in its drivers.)
Oh, and it's not @#$!ing "ink". It's "toner." Ink is a liquid, that, in "inkjets", permeates quite a bit deeper into the paper than tonor-flakes.
Re:laserprinters are way cheap now (Score:3, Insightful)
If you actually came across a printer that has this horrible design defect, please let us all know so we can avoid that brand / model.
Re:laserprinters are way cheap now (Score:2, Informative)
Rubbish!
As others have pointed out already, many of today's laser printers are designed to be used with duplex units. There is no problem with printing on the reverse side of an already laser-printed sheet. It's even quite feasible to over-print laser-printed forms.
What you shouldn't do is over-print onto photocopied forms. That's where you can cause some problems with the tone
Re:laserprinters are way cheap now (Score:2)
I have an hp LaserJet 1320 and it's quite a nice printer. It's aimed at the home/small-office market, so I don't know if it will be able to handle the capacity you want, but I've printed documents a few hundred pages long and it's worked fine. I believe it supports both PostScript and PCL, and it can duplex. It does 22ppm non-duplexed, but gets quite a bit slower when duplexing (turning a page around takes more time than feeding a new page). You can get versions with Ethernet networking (1320n), Etherne
Re:laserprinters are way cheap now (Score:2)
You can find the printer here [hp.com] at hp's website. (The link goes to the small business section.)
The models they have are:
Each of the one or two paper trays holds 250 sheets, so you have to load them separately. All of them have a manual feed above the paper tray. All of them have USB 2.0, and the ones without networking (the 1320 and 1320t)
Re:laserprinters are way cheap now (Score:5, Informative)
For still more money, you can get duplex, a second tray, et cetera. I intend to purchase the postscript simm (about $30) which doubles the memory to only 8MB (sufficient for manuals, though) and provides PS level 2 emulation, to augment the PCL 5 that the printer normally speaks.
The laserjet 2100 is one of HP's finest black and white laser printers, and you can trivially find one with ethernet, or buy one and an ethernet EIO print server, for less than $300. They are not the fastest printers around but my 2100 will probably still be working when the last 1320 has failed :P
Re:laserprinters are way cheap now (Score:2)
Re:laserprinters are way cheap now (Score:2)
Re:laserprinters are way cheap now (Score:2)
The 2100 was also designed with repair in mind. I personally have replaced a paper feed/fuser kit on one of these printers, and it is cake.
Laserjet II and III were fantastic bac
Re:laserprinters are way cheap now (Score:2)
Re:laserprinters are way cheap now (Score:2)
notebook/tablet (Score:5, Insightful)
Second, if you need to read any sort of electronic document, why not read it electronically? I mean, paper is nice because you can use it even when your computer breaks. Any other reason you want paper? Because you can probably get a decent notebook/tablet pc for less the cost of the equipment to print an 800-page book cheaply, and that way, the text is searchable -- no more thumbing through indexes.
Re:notebook/tablet (Score:2)
Yes, yes there is. For library reference documents (ie programming libs) then yes a laptop or second screen makes sense - heck, if you have a browser open anyway on a second monitor like I do just open it in a tab.
If you're looking at something that doesn't have a natural hierarchy though, like generic documentation or specs or stuff, being able to flip several dozen pages in under a second is
less (Score:2)
And flipping several dozen pages in under a second? Isn't that like typing "300g" in less?
Or better: have the relevant stuff open in tabs, so that flipping through everythnig is done with ctrl+tab, not flipping through several dozen pages looking for something familiar.
Re:less (Score:2)
Let's assume you've read a particular book more than three times (I've read LotR and the first six DragonLance novels better than a dozen times). If I had an electronic copy and the paper copy side by side, I bet dollars to donuts that I can find a parti
Re:less (Score:2)
I used to love hard bound books. Now, I can't stand paper in just about any form. If paper forms of written texts were about as practical as electronic forms, I would likely prefer paper. They aren't except in very narrow cases. For example;
Re:less (Score:2)
While there are clear advantages to using reference materials on computers, the choice of using paper materials for reading longer texts comes from the habit(!) of having done so in the past.
I used to agree with you and did prefer printed materials -- even considering it 'more natural'. I don't anymore, even for long hours-on-e
Re:notebook/tablet (Score:3, Informative)
Perhaps they never intend on printing it, but they know many end users will want to, and honestly, HTML is not "just fine" to many people (like me) who appreciate the formatting of the PDF documentation, not the least of which i
Re:notebook/tablet (Score:2)
Many people use computers in the first place because, with an 800 page manual, it's just more practical to do things the Google Way.
Re:notebook/tablet (Score:2)
Unless you have a source for equipment that has recently "fallen off of the back of a truck" it's going to be cheaper to go to Kinkos.
LK
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Why paper? Because it won't kill my eyes (Score:3, Interesting)
I used to agree...now, I've entirely adjusted. The last time I had eye strain was back when displays were below 1024x768.
Re:notebook/tablet (Score:2)
Secondly, printed documents are far easier to read. This is no mere luddism - I have thoroughly embraced ebooks. But most ebooks are read sequentially. Technical documentation isn't. Paper documents let you easily flick back and forth between the current page and the appendix at the back that explains what's going on, or rapidly flick through pages. And most importantly
Re:notebook/tablet (Score:2)
I can rapidly flick around like you wouldn't believe. Ctrl+tab and ctrl+shift+tab in Firefox + ctrl+alt+left/right in GNOME means I gain very little by having a manual in hardcopy.
Re:notebook/tablet (Score:2)
Re:notebook/tablet (Score:2)
Making HTML printable involves even worse kludges than making PDF viewable on-screen.
Cheapest new tablet PC I can find via Froogle (no idea if it is decent or not, just the cheapest) is $750 - I think you can find someone to do a 800 page book for less than a dollar a page can't you?
Re:notebook/tablet (Score:3, Informative)
Re:notebook/tablet (Score:2)
Re:notebook/tablet (Score:2)
And maybe it's easier on his bandwidth for "salesguy bob" to send you a URL, not a zip...
Differences between browsers? Hey, if someone's thinking of going to Kinko's, they can download a 5 meg browser (Firefox). I'm pretty sure you can do SVG on that, so there are your diagrams and figures right there, probably very printable.
I've tried using paper in the sun, and I prefer an LCD under an umbrella to white paper, reflecting so much s
Re:notebook/tablet (Score:2)
In my own experience, electronic text files are always better. But maybe it's just that I actually have more experience organizing tabs and using keyboard shortcuts than creating piles of papers. Maybe it's that I can usually find what I want off Google faster than someone else can find it off a shelf.
But then, that would be an argument for someone to get more experience using electronic files, not to get more paper
PrintFu (Score:5, Informative)
CafePress / Lulu (Score:4, Informative)
I needed a manual printed (perfect bound - like a paperback novel) last year and went with CafePress [cafepress.com]. They have reasonable prices--I think I spent $15 on a 200-page book, one copy. Decent quality, but the pages were a little yellow.
Then I found Lulu [lulu.com]. Same kind of thing, with a base price of $4.53 per book and $0.02 per page. They do have a page limit of 700 pgs, which would translate into a whopping $18.53. Anyone have any experience with them?
a cheap old laptop (Score:2)
Just an alternate idea . having a browse around ebay some older laptops ar
Re:a cheap old laptop (Score:2)
One word: Kinko's (Score:2)
Re:One word: Kinko's (Score:5, Interesting)
Even for a slim 150 page manual your talking 17 USD . For those types of prices you cant get some nice reference books.
My soloution (which i use myself and which i stated in an earlyer post) was to get an older laptop with a nice screen to use as a glorified book reader.
I paid 200 for a P3-600mhz with 256MB ram(a really good price at the time, so perhaps it will cost you a little more. Though a 600mhz p3 is overkill for just a pdf reader, but i use it for other things aswell) with a nice 15" screen . It has served me well and works great as a glorified book reader.
Re:One word: Kinko's (Score:3, Funny)
You aren't the REAL Fidel Castro at all. I call you out as an impostor.
Re:One word: Kinko's (Score:2, Offtopic)
Re:One word: Kinko's (Score:2)
Re:One word: Kinko's (Score:2)
So yeah, you're paying another couple cents a page to get someone else to
Re:One word: Kinko's (Score:2)
Though i can totaly understand an aversion to reading on the screem
As for the "Another box to keep runing" thing , Well
Re:One word: Kinko's (Score:2)
Layout (Score:2)
Multi-up (Score:4, Informative)
Most large doc are laid-out for printing on smaller paper and are actually oversized on A4/8.5x11. This is only good if you have reduced visual acuity. I don't, and usually go for the 4x to save paper and page flipping.
matrix printer! (Score:2)
ah reminds me of those good old days when I had a matrix printer. sure they made a lot of noise, but it was pretty quick with printing out hunderds of pages with huge source code listings. and you didn't have to worry that much about running out of paper.
Drive around... (Score:2, Funny)
Cafe Press? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Cafe Press? (Score:2)
"Fineprint" for windows (Score:3, Interesting)
Laser &c (Score:2)
Also, use a long plastic thing that keeps the pages together (or a stapler--more fiddly) for binding. Else, you could get a binding machine that makes holes that you put the prongs of one of those cylindrical plastic binding thingies through--that will last forever.
The really easy option for binding is to just print booklet style (using your p
Outscource the job to Kinko's (Score:5, Informative)
I was just looking at a very similar problem:
The Kinko's in SE Portland quotes me about $25 for a single copy, double side printing, comb bound with vinyl cover. Add $1 to do spiral bound. There would be a discount for multiple copies-- and at this price doing a copy for each of us, and a couple of spares for the Jolt spills, might be a good idea.
No way I could do this "in house" for such a low cost.
Re:Outscource the job to Kinko's (Score:2)
That's not a low cost. Consider calling some competitors, such as a local printshop (the kind that do business cards, broshures and flyers, wedding invitations, etc).
For a one-shot of 1 - 6 copies, yes, this was low cost. Since I don't have any free labor available, the cost of comparison shopping for something less than Kinko's quote would be more than any likely savings.
If you are really going to do a number of copies..., you should be aware of recent advances in short-run paper back publishing.
Geek-friendly 3 ring binders! (Score:3, Insightful)
I know, all the anti "dead tree" folks are going to come out of the woodwork, but MANY people still prefer to have a tech manual open next to them when they work, rather than flipping back and forth to some electronic document, searching for some information. For many people, the mind can often search, cross-reference, and make sense of data in hard copy MUCH faster than cumbersome electronic documentation.
Re:Geek-friendly 3 ring binders! (Score:2)
I used to be that way. It's a trained habit. You get over it. Electronic only suffers if you want to read it in your bathtub or when on the couch...not an issue for technical docs.
Print multiple pages on each sheet (Score:2, Interesting)
The size letter is normally enough to read it without problems, my Kyocera (damm cheap, 40€, if you buy a used one) does a good work even with small typefaces.
When the number of pages are less than 80, I use the pamphlet filter, I still get the 4 pages for sheet but you can fold it by half, put a pair of staples and yo
Heavy duty laser, hole punch, file (Score:2)
Printing would still just get you loose sheets, howe
Before you take a pdf to Kinkos... (Score:5, Interesting)
The solution was simple enough, I emailed Steinberg asking permission to print it for personal use only, yadda yadda, and they replied (rather quickly, surprisingly) and said it was ok. Took a printout of the email to Kinkos and they happily printed the manual for me.
I realize I could have easily forged the email from Steinberg, but I considered the possibility, however unlikely, that Mr Steinberg would find out and make an example out of me via a hearty copyright lawsuit, thus ending my home recording career even before it started.
Not that I have anything against Germans.
Re:Before you take a pdf to Kinkos... (Score:2)
1. If you have a PDF for some software that you want printed, they will let you copy it ONE time. This would qualify as fair use.
2. If you have a PDF AND it's on the original CD (Stienberg Cubase as an example), print it.
3. If the PDF file doesn't allow you to print it (POSSIBLE if sticking to Adobe Software), then they can't but if their's no restriction, print away.
My point is if
buy a used laserjet or okidata (Score:2)
however, of course, the least expensive solution is to buy an old impact printer
could we raise the bar here a little
I faced this problem (Score:2)
Simple (Score:2, Informative)
Ask Slashdot: What is the best method of wiping? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Ask Slashdot: What is the best method of wiping (Score:2)
Huh? (Score:2)
Or, take the PDF to Kinkos and say PRINT.
Wow, that was hard.
it's called "Book on Demand" (Score:2)
also, Don Lancaster has been writing about it [tinaja.com] for over a decade
Laser printers + binding machine + intern (Score:2)
OT I know, but it really bugs me that my local elementary school is full of inkjets and screaming for supplies because their budget is overstretched. They could cut operating costs by giving all the teachers laser printers, and having only a couple of color printers for the rare things that need it.
Re:Laser printers + binding machine + intern (Score:2)
I work at a printing company. (Score:3, Informative)
Now, for something useful to answer the question at hand: Find a local, small printing company. They're all over, you just have to look. Call up and ask to speak to their IT dept. I've done small printjobs like manuals, they're insanely easy and fast to do, and a single copy of a 800 page manual (assuming that means 800 planes, 400 double-sided pieces of paper), 3 hole punched in a binder, would cost us roughly $50 to do. This is not a price quote, just an FYI. Reasonably we'd probably ask about $70 to $100, cheaper if it's for an existing/prospective client or a personal favor.
If you need lots (hundred or more) of copies, you can go really cheap with the "tissue paper" that prints off of a web press and get them for as little as $5 a copy, depending on how you bind them. Unfortunately, we don't do that where I work but we subcontract work that we get that does need it.
Re:I work at a printing company. (Score:2)
Fedex/Kinkos (Score:2)
At work, I try to keep it electronic when possible, but then print out the parts I need. I always have a machine that can read it around and it's not terribly bad to be using the PDF on one machine or window and doing the operation on the other. I DO print some manuals and for that, I use a Xerox x432 ST Document Center or a Xerox Docuprint 75 or a Xerox Docuprint
Contact the company? (Score:2)
Re:Put more than one virtual page on an actual pag (Score:3, Informative)
(print even pages)
psbook -s16 file.ps |psnup -n 2 |psselect -e |lpr -P printer
(re-feed your pages, print odd pages)
psbook -s16 file.ps |psnup -n 2 |psselect -o |lpr -P printer
Will print a nice manual, in several 16 pages booklets, that you can bind with your own stapler in the middle (hint: open the stapler all the way, plus the side of your desk is your friend).
If you used a nice laser printer (a cheap one will do) then you have a nice, book sized manual, as easy to read as a com