Has Anyone Made an Artificial Diamond Ring? 117
DiamondRingThing asks: "I know that diamond engagement rings are a recent fabrication, and the two months salary required to obtain one is ridiculous. Diamonds are pretty however, and evil never keeps a good hacker down. I'd like to be able to give a diamond to my girlfriend that I know was forged just for her, without any blood on it, and without giving any money to DeBeers. That's why I won't buy an artificial diamond from a jeweler, as I suspect the cartel is involved at that level. Does anybody know anyone that has made their own diamond to set in a ring? How's the cost, and the quality? Thanks in advance."
Making your own diamond? (Score:4, Funny)
Does anybody know anyone that has made their own diamond to set in a ring?
Sure...Superman [imdb.com] used to do this all the time.
I think Vulcan [imdb.com] did this quite a bit too.
^_^
Re:Making your own diamond? (Score:2)
Or do something like what I did for my fiance. She got double lasik surgery (with wavefront) and a very moderately priced ring with small garnets and diamonds
An interesting article at wired.com (Score:5, Interesting)
From the article:
De Beers executive drove directly to Claridge's, and the two men sat down in the tearoom to the strains of a piano and violin duet. De Beers refuses to comment on the meeting--or about anything for this story--but Clarke says he simply placed his diamonds on the table. "When I told him that we planned to set up a factory to mass-produce these, he turned white," the General recalls.
Re:An interesting article at wired.com (Score:2, Informative)
Seriously, there are several places now that can produce perfect diamonds that can not be distingished from the real thing. In fact, the only way to tell comes from the fact that they are so perfect (too bad if you happen to have a real diamond that is perfect).
As for making one yourself, no, I don't think so. The process needs some heavy duty equipment. If it were possible for regular person to do it then we would see all kinds of how-tos on the 'Net.
Re:An interesting article at wired.com (Score:4, Informative)
Were I going to attempt it I'd do something like the following (now there is a HOWTO on the net...):
*Buy very small perfect diamond
*Buy LPCVD machine
*Buy various carbon based gasses
*Use DOE to tweak the tuning (my bet is that you need some combination of CH4 and CCl4 and a really high temp setting with the pressure at 1/1000000 ATM; even then it's probably going to be really slow)
*Grow small diamond into larger diamond
*Buy cutting tools
*Separate the larger diamond into smaller ones
*Repeate grow + separate until CVD machine is full
*Harvest diamonds
Est Cost: $85,000
Re:An interesting article at wired.com (Score:1, Informative)
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.09/diamond.
http://www.apollodiamond.com/ [apollodiamond.com]
Re:An interesting article at wired.com (Score:2)
They'll custom make a jem for you and your wife.
I have no idea how much it will cost, but honestly to screw over deBeers, it would be worth it.
Artificial diamonds (Score:3, Informative)
Warning (Score:5, Funny)
Prepare for 503 errors if you continue to discuss alternatives to natural diamonds.
You have been warned.
-De Beers NOC
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Warning (Score:1)
Re:Warning (Score:1)
Re:Warning (Score:1)
Re:Warning (Score:2)
Re:Warning (Score:1)
Re:Warning (Score:2)
There aren't gem quality lab-created diamonds (Score:1)
Re:There aren't gem quality lab-created diamonds (Score:2)
When we meet the next morning in the lobby of the High Council, Van Royen looks tired. He admits to staying up almost all night scrutinizing the stones. "I think I can identify it," he says hopefully. "It's too perfect to be natural. Things in nature, they have flaws. The growth structure of this diamond is flawless."
Of course, I don't know that you can actually buy these anywhere, but it's pretty cool nonetheless!
Lifegem (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Lifegem (Score:1)
Scam? (Score:2)
Cool concept if they are legit..
Re:Lifegem (Score:2)
Re:Diamonds are a cartel's best friend... (Score:2)
Rethink the strategy here (Score:1)
My wife was cool about my objections to diamonds, so I get a really nice sapphire and put it on a very unique setting.
Re:Rethink the strategy here (Score:3, Interesting)
Find a company like Jamming Gems [jamminggems.com], which sell synthetic gemstones, and you can get a much better cost than for natural stones. For example, you can get a 20mm x 15mm oval synthetic alexandrite for $14.99 -- a stone which, if natural, would be worth over $20,000. By spending less on the stone(s), you can have a more impressive ring made, and get a custom setting, so you're not ju
Re:Rethink the strategy here (Score:1, Flamebait)
Re:Rethink the strategy here (Score:2)
Looks like that's the imitation Alexandrite -the color change doesn't get the range that real Alexandrite should. For that you need to get the real chrysoberyl Alexandrite - they have a 6mm round for $25. They claim it's identical to natural Alexandrite.
If it really matches Alexandrite grading (~emerald to rasberry color shift from daylight to incandescent) and it's fai
Re:Rethink the strategy here (Score:2)
Post a journal entry when you come to a decision about whether it's worth it?
Re:Rethink the strategy here (Score:2)
I'll have it this week or next. WAF test is June 30th.
Make it yourself? (Score:2)
Canadian Diamonds (Score:1)
Not necessarily cheaper (Score:2)
Silly cheap gem-quality white diamonds aren't really here yet, but if she wanted a blue or yellow diamond the size of her thumb, she can:)
What color do you want? (Score:1)
Buy a Canadian Diamond! (Score:2, Informative)
Just buy her a Canadian diamond...
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/diamonds/ [www.cbc.ca]
Re:Buy a Canadian Diamond! (Score:2)
If you are looking for more resources for canadian diamonds, check out this [google.com] Google Answers question, which is essentially the same as yours.
If you are serious about getting Debeers-free diamonds, well, good luck. Read up on them and you'll understand why, but know that those who claim to be selling you a non-DeBeers diamond may be selling you a story. However, most people are simply looking for (and willing to purchase) a story - a good feeling - so perhap
Re:Buy a Canadian Diamond! (Score:2)
Canadian diamonds are controlled by DeBeers.
Evidence?
Re:Buy a Canadian Diamond! (Score:3, Interesting)
this was all talked about in Wired Magazine a year or so ago - with a great deal of talk about artifical diamonds from various companies - including one group that builds
this is well-known fact among many jewelers. where it's documented, i have no idea.
Re:Buy a Canadian Diamond! (Score:2)
Re:Buy a Canadian Diamond! (Score:3, Informative)
Not really - Please cite your source.
Although their fingers are in there a little, their participation is minimal. If you're looking for "clean diamonds", Canada is the way to to go:
Canada's current production comes from two mines: the Ekati Mine, owned by BHP-Billiton (80%), Chuck Fipke (10%) and Stewart Blusson (10%), has over 100 kimberlite pipes on its property, of which eight are considered economically viable and will likely be mined. The projected min
Canadian Diamonds (Score:4, Informative)
Try this: (Score:2)
With the power to make a diamond with his bare hands.
Pawn shop (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Pawn shop (Score:2)
I'm not saying I agree with these sentiments, but if you ask the average woman in the US if she wants a "new" diamond or a larger pawn shop diamond, I'm betting "new" wins 100% of the time.
Re:Pawn shop (Score:3, Insightful)
I wager if you put the two rings in front of the "average woman", she'll go for the bigger one. Especially if you get it appraised first, so she can compare the cost difference.
FWIW, though, any women worth marrying is either smart enough to see through the whole deBeers scam on her own, or trusts you enough when you
Re:Pawn shop (Score:2)
Re:Pawn shop (Score:2)
Re:Pawn shop (Score:2)
Or, you can just skip the stone altogether as my wife and I did. We recently celebrated our 20th anniversary and replaced our aged and dulled wedding bands with new two-tone tungsten and gold wedding bands. Neither of us missed paying for the stone. Besides, she doesn't really like diamonds anyway.
If you don't know what she likes yet, it may be h
Re:Pawn shop (Score:2)
thank the lawd some of us have uncommon women. what other kind of woman sits with you in bed, each on a laptop, the whole morning?
Re:Pawn shop (Score:2)
I could make a comment about how sexist it is to have the backwards idea that only men should be computer neds... but it's obvious (at least to everyone else), so I'll spare it.
Call me nuts, but I'm the kind of fellow who likes a woman who has similar inter
Its not used, its an antique... (Score:2)
You MUST be joking! (Score:4, Funny)
One: It would cheaper to buy a 3rd world nation from which to mine the diamond, or perhaps fund your very own coup, than to build the lab required for such an undertaking.
Two: The ridiculous outlay in cash is "proof that you truly love her" and without this she will have troubles interacting with her friends who, to a girl, have been subjected to the same brain washing and with her parents who partook in the brain washing.
Three: Buying blood diamonds has little impact on the goings on in Africa, it's an extremely fucked up place and the few dozen land mines bought from from the money from your diamond is nothing compared to mountains of small arms and land mines the G8 is selling to the various wacko revolutionaries and wacko tyrants or just the wacko white farmers, On CREDIT.
Three: While it is admittedly difficult to find a women worth spending your life with who doesn't want some ridiculus gem on her finger in the US, this is not so much the case elsewhere in the world.
Food for thought: How long does a diamond last? How long does a human last? How long does the average marriage last? Now considering these facts why isn't the used diamond market absolutely flooded? Where the hell did they go? OK My Mum had some from my Grannies that she gave to my sisters but come on, where are the rest?
My take on this... I fought a lot with my ex about this before we were married and she, of course, brought it up when we getting a divorce. Actually I'm pretty sure she still holds the comment "Do you realize how many land mines were planted in Africa with the money from that ring" comment, I made in front of our parents, against me. That was a sign I should have never married that women to begin with and should of held out for the fantastic Girlfriend I have now. I just pray that my daughter doesn't start to exhibit the same wacko tendencies...
Re:You MUST be joking! (Score:4, Insightful)
Food for thought: How long does a diamond last? How long does a human last? How long does the average marriage last? Now considering these facts why isn't the used diamond market absolutely flooded? Where the hell did they go? OK My Mum had some from my Grannies that she gave to my sisters but come on, where are the rest?
Graveyards. They're a sentimental item and something most people would want their grandmothers/parents buried with.
Re:You MUST be joking! (Score:2)
Re:You MUST be joking! (Score:2)
But it does sound lucrative
Why not rethink this "man-buys-woman" routine (Score:4, Insightful)
Do you want an equal partnership or are you looking to 'buy' a wife? Might I suggest that 'buy'ing such a wife sets a poor precedent for the future of the relationship.
If one of you doesn't make as much as the other, fine: figure out a proportional payment based on your take-home and find a pair based on that sum.
Wasting so much money on a rock in this day and age when marriages are often not "forever" seems a bit dated -- and being a woman, I certainly wouldn't want the feeling of indebtedness that might come from such an unequal exchange. It would feel like a wrong power & relationship dynamic.
You also might find she likes other gemstones better than the "vanilla" standard white diamond.
I don't think artificial diamonds of superb color/clarity are quite yet ready for "prime time". Have read they have made small ones, but they are quite a bit away from larger ones and mass production.
Might also think of whether or not you want the bride's father to pay for the wedding (another tradition, taking the place of the dowry), or maybe pool resources w/your parents toward a honeymoon (or house downpayment).
At least with the money for a house downpayment -- you will both own a house together. Studies have shown a positive correlation between, both joint ownership of property and joint finances and longer marriages.
All this presumes you are a "mere", mortal man. If you are Bill Gates or
some multi-billionaire, well... nevermind.
Re:Why not rethink this "man-buys-woman" routine (Score:1)
I'd be one of those females who likes other gemstones over the diamond.
I'm also not a yellow gold kind of girl either.
So my point, to the original poster? Have you talked this over with your girlfriend to see what she'd prefer?
Re:Why not rethink this "man-buys-woman" routine (Score:1)
Re:Why not rethink this "man-buys-woman" routine (Score:1)
Re:Why not rethink this "man-buys-woman" routine (Score:3, Insightful)
I believe that's the practical half of your brain speaking.
My wife is very frugal and practical, which made the gift of the ring that much more special and romantic.
Perhaps you are the kind of person that either doesn't enjoy wearing fine jewelry, or it makes no emotional difference to you whether what you are wearing is real or fake, valuable, or cheap.
My (very) limited experience is that there is an emotional boost for women wearing jewelry that compliments them and highlights their attractiven
Re:Why not rethink this "man-buys-woman" routine (Score:2)
If you're going into a marriage with feelings of "who owes who", then don't go into it! Don't get married! If you don't have enough trust in him to trust that he won't hold over your head how much he paid, then you don't have enough trust to marry the guy.
And if you are going to feel that way, even if he never mentions it again,
Re:Why not rethink this "man-buys-woman" routine (Score:2)
I think the real issue is fighting 300 million years of evolution. Evolutionarily speaking, females want a powerful mate. Since in civilized society, butting heads like rams doesn't go over too well, modern women have adapted by preferring to select mates who are powerful economically. That ring on her finger is the equivalent of an enormous set of ram's horns on your head. Personally, I'd rather buy the ring.
Re:Why not rethink this "man-buys-woman" routine (Score:2)
Me? I'd rather stage a revolution, put in place a crude Stanlinist regime, with me as head of Politburo and as General Secretary. Then I need to buy no ring! MUHAUHA!
Re:Why not rethink this "man-buys-woman" routine (Score:2)
Not too long ago you had to pay her parents as well. Be glad we are now civilized.
DeBeers has succeeded! (Score:3, Interesting)
NEWS FLASH:
Those flaws are made on purpose, to keep DeBeers from absolutely destroying the market by flooding his entire stock onto it.
"Natural" artificial diamonds are perfect. That's right, PERFECT. No flaws, exceptional clarity. They are that way inherently so. Would someone who is actually involved in the bort industry please elaborate? Artificial diamonds are HEAVILY used in the machini
Croonchy Stars boxes! (Score:2)
Anyhow, just a suggestion. You probably wanted it a little sooner, eh
Re:Croonchy Stars boxes! (Score:1)
Moissanite (Score:4, Informative)
Moissanite [moissanite.com].
My wife likes the sparkle, especially under standard indoor lighting. It really is more colourful and brighter than a diamond, but only costs a fraction of the price. Maybe one third the price, around here.
Of course, if your gal is one of those "but it's not a DIAAAAAMOND!" girls, you're SOL.
Re:Moissanite (Score:3, Informative)
If your girl is interested in oooos and aaaaaahs, a moissanite ring i
Re:Moissanite (Score:2, Informative)
Source of artificial diamonds (Score:2)
I read the article on Wired and then saw an ad for the following company, www.diamond-essence.com , who sells manufactured diamonds. As a random example they have a ring with a 5kt diamond, and other smaller diamonds for a total of 7.5kts. Total price?
$249
DeBeers price? via Kay jewelers
1ct solitaire!
Wait for it!
$6499!!!!
Hell of a difference. See other posts for the morality o
Re:Source of artificial diamonds (Score:3, Informative)
Which explains why its so cheap. Cubic zirconia is NOT the same as a manufactured/artificial diamond.
Re:Source of artificial diamonds (Score:1)
Why is it called an ARTIFICIAL diamond? (Score:2)
You can manufacture diamonds and swear its real. The gold part, now that would be tough. Although many girls like silver colors and will settle for silver or other shinly substitute. If it is bling bling enough, they'll accept it as proof of your love. Just dont tell her the price.
I think DeBeers crushes all possibilities of ma
natural = made by nature (Score:1)
I predict within 20 years the only way to tell a manufactured diamond from a made-by-God one will be by a certificate of origin, possibly backed by a laser engraving.
Ironically, the desire to avoid "conflict diamonds" will do more to drive certificates of origin and laser engraving than the fear of man-made d
Re:Diamond cost digs your grave (Score:2)
I dont know about the rest of you (or how much you make in a month) but there's no F'ing way I would put a $9000 ring on wife's finger (and she wouldnt have it, either).
Who in the world besides movie stars and former enron employees would spend that much on a ring?
We are happy with our silver cladaghs (the irish ring mentioned earlier)... sheesh!
Re: x months of salary (Score:1)
back when I was a kid I remember it being 1 month of pay
also, what ever happened to those Russkies who were making cheap diamonds by the truck load? I bet they were bought/forced out.
Better than diamond - Moissanite (Score:2)
My fiance's engagement ring is 2/3 moissanite (3 stones, the center is diamond). It's better looking than diamond side by side, costs less, and has a more interesting background than diamond (outer space vs. hot air). While she's not a
And 2 months salary (it's actually turning into 3 months now) is BS. If a girl only loves you because of how much she thinks you can spend on her,
Breach of Contract (Score:3, Insightful)
The diamond engagement ring is a modern concept -- 1880's, thank you very much De Beers. But it sits on the chattel, economical arrangement ideas.
Engagement rings are expensive because they come from a tradition of viewing women as property, and men as providers, not partners. You're putting a down payment on her so as to keep her from marrying someone else, and to prove that you're successful. She wears it to prove to her friends that her husband is successful.
Wedding rings are great. They're generally cheap and function as symbols to two people binding to one another. Engagement rings are about materialism, conspicuous consumption, and investment in a woman as property via a down payment that you lose if you breach the contract.
If you MUST prove to her you're affluent, something's horribly wrong in your relationship. If you just want to prove it, stop for a second and think "why?" -- is it confidence issue for yourself, or are you just allowing the weight of history and our avaricious, hungry, capitalist society to put desires in your head?
If you really both want something to put on her finger to say "I am owned, even though I'm not yet married" to outsiders (and there's real comfort in that for both parties, I know), consider one of those Irish friendship rings, then she can box it away when she gets the real, mutual icon of the final attachment, instead of looking at it as so expensive she needs to wear it.
Re:Breach of Contract (Score:1)
Buy Moissanite if your girl doesn't mind... (Score:1)
http://www.moissanite.com/education_video.cfm [moissanite.com]
Later,
-Slashdot Junky
Re:Buy Moissanite if your girl doesn't mind... (Score:1)
-Slashdot Junky
If you're going through the effort... (Score:2)
The main point of a gem is to be bright (brilliance) and sparkly (fire)... And to achieve that, you want to maximize the light "gathering" tendencies of the gem.
Clarity, color and carat are fairly well explained, but it seems cut is not always correctly understood. "Cut" does not mean "shape". Instead, it is the quality of how the diamond was cut -- the
go to Canada, eh? (Score:1)
You can read up on them, but they're mined up in the Northwest Territories and are only cut/sold as ideal cuts, high clarity, light color -- all that good stuff. I didn't break the bank either, (although I admit I didn't buy into that DeBeer's 2 month
Re:go to Canada, eh? (Score:1)
Even though they may mark the package to save you any duties fees or extra taxes, they can still be quite costly...depending on the karat size you're looking for, of course. You may be able to find a smaller diamond at a decent price, but due to the fact that Canadian
Re:go to Canada, eh? (Score:1)
I do agree with the Windsor-poster that the dealers are leveraging off of the artificial price inflation that DeBeer's has created. I had researched the prices pretty hardcore and the one I ended up with was right on par (CCCC and price) with the bluenile.com selection. So, not necessarily a ripoff, unless you consider all natural diamonds to be so...
I guess, if one is looking for value f
Lab created diamonds (Score:1)
Hope that helps and the obligatory comment that I have no connection to the above mentioned company but did like their product.
Learn diamonds, and learn to negotiate (Score:3, Informative)
First of all, this would be a good time to invest in a seminar on how to negotiate (e.g. Karrass Negotiation Seminars [karrass.com]). This will help you in your marriage, just as much as in material things like buying a diamond ring or a car or getting the highest possible starting pay rate.
Second, you need to learn about how to buy diamonds, go to google.com and type in, "Diamond Buying FAQ".
Alternative (Score:2)
What about, instead of creating the diamon, create the ring itself. I've seen companies on the net (can't remember any names off hand but you should be able to google) that will create jewelry based off 3D models. Then you could create the ring, and get her input on it. If you don't want to pay for the diamond because of cost, or because of ethical reasons, then look at
greenKarat (Score:2, Interesting)
Find a family member to give you a diamond. Duh. (Score:2)
I had the diamond set in a custom engagement ring, and we had our jeweler make two additional bands that were affixed to each side of the engagement ring for the wedding.
Why dream up a complicated, expensive solution like manufacturing your own d
diamond not from the cartel: kill a bunch of rats! (Score:1)
http://www.brunners.com/life_gem.htm [brunners.com]
if you don't want to wait for a death to occur naturally:
you need about 2 pounds of unprocessed (i.e. carbon left in) cremation ashes:
two dozen rats, orthwo to three dogs,po
8 cats, or
100 miles worth of roadkill
NO kartell involved
No blood
Fresh from the oven, no middlemen at all! Count anywhere between 5k$ to 11k$ for the stone (1/2 carat to 1 carat).
There are other sites. I think most of them have it done in Switzerland.
mike
I've seen 'em (Score:2)
You can make one in a microwave oven by dropping the pressure and feeding in methane (natural gas) an reaching a temurature fo 1800deg C. After placing a dialond seed, several weeks later you should have additional deposits.
Your options for a clear diamond come only from nature at this time.
I do recommend hanging out in NYC's diamond distri
The problem is... (Score:2)
The basic CVD setup for diamond is alcohol and hydrogen vapors flowing over a filament and then onto a sample deposition plate.
Take a tank of alcohol and bubble hydrogen through it. You can get H2 from a gas supply company, or any acid-metal reaction. You'll want a valve to control the ratio. The Carbon-Hydrogen ratio should be quite low (about 10%?) to give a good controlled growth rate. The slower, more controlle