Building PCs - How do you Choose Your Components? 106
ATP asks: "It's been a few years since I built my current system by ordering parts from the cheapest vendors I could find. Everything went smoothly with very little research, and my system is still running great today. I'm now looking into building another desktop system, but I've become quickly overwhelmed by how complex components have become. In particular, motherboard/CPU compatibility are confusing (think: single/dual, socket 478/604/754/939/939pciExpress/940/LGA775, OS compatibility, memory types, etc). Is there a guide to the not-so-novice PC guru somewhere that would help me catch up on the developments in the last couple years?"
How do I chose? (Score:3, Funny)
i have a bigger problem ... (Score:1, Funny)
Re:i have a bigger problem ... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:i have a bigger problem ... (Score:2, Funny)
Try the apple stores. No more home-built computer problems.
Re:i have a bigger problem ... (Score:2)
Be satisfied and gloat that you have a girlfriend.
Check out some "pros" (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Check out some "pros" (Score:3, Informative)
tomshardware.com (Score:5, Informative)
Re:tomshardware.com (Score:5, Informative)
1) Pick your processor company. Are you am AMD or an Intel guy? I tend to prefer AMD myself, but you have to make up your own mind..
2) Choose your socket. This should be an easy one. For each company, you have a budget and a premium socket. This should be an easy choice -- just look at your budget. Over $1000 = premium. Under $500 or so, go budget. In between, you will have to decide. Once this is nailed down, choose a processor based on your budget.
3) Chipset selection. You might have a couple of choices here, depending on which processor you choose. To me, a couple of percentage points on a benchmark is not worth much. I look for such things as the interfaces supported (some value mobos do not have firewire, for example). Do you want to run two vid cards (for the rich only)? How many SATA ports will you need. If you are a Linux type of guy, will your chipset be supported by your OS? This is probably the hardest choice to make.
4) Mobo selection. Once you know which chipset you want, then you have to choose a manufacturer. Everybody has favorites here. My only advice is to choose a larger manufacturer. Look at the review web sties to get an idea for the stability of the board (this is a big deal). Note that a long warranty is REALLY nice to have.
5) RAM is easy. All you have to really decide is how much. Get budget RAM from one of the big names (OCZ, for example). Do not get premium RAM. Buy budget RAM and use the difference to upgrade to a faster processor or vid card. Premium RAM is for people who have unlimited budgets and already have top-of-the-line everything else. 1GB is a nice number. If you are on a tighe budget, go 512M, but no lower!
6) Vid card. This is another personal preference thing. Choose ATI or nVidia. I chose nVidia because of Linux support. If you are not a Linux type of guy, then either one will work. Here is where the hardware review sites really become valuable.
7) Hard drives. If you are in the mainstream price range, you have several choices. There is a little difference between different manufacturers as far as speed goes, but I still think that it would be hard to get a bad hard drive. Just make sure that it is large enough. If you have the money to go for NCQ (and your mobo supports it), then do it.
9) Case. This one is a matter of personal preference. Even a cheap case will work great, as long as it has enough cooling capability. Paying more for smooth internal edges is nice, but if you build it once and then do not open it up, sharp edges can be lived with for the cost savings.
10) Power supply. DO NOT SKIMP HERE. Always go for a good name brand with enough watts. I chose Antec. There are others out there with a good reputation.
11) Optical drives. There are so many good choices here, it is hard to go wrong. Even the worst drives are good. But there are a few favorites that keep coming up. Benq and NEC make good DVD burners.
Some more general advice. If you are a gamer, skimp a little on the processor to get a good vid card. If you are a code monkey, get the best processor that you can afford.
Re:tomshardware.com (Score:2, Informative)
http://shsc.info/PowerSupplyGuide/ [shsc.info]
Re:tomshardware.com (Score:2)
Watts = voltage x current, so more wattage = more current.
Manufacturers can play games with these numbers, but if you stick to quality manufacturers (Antec being my favorite), they do not play games. So the watts is a decent "rule of thumb" measurement.
Re:tomshardware.com (Score:2)
Modern processors, memory, viedo cards... they all are much more powerful, and with that comes a proportional amount of heat. ~10 years ago you could get away with a fan or two in the back. Now you're likely going to need ~3-4 in the back, a good one in the power supply, big ones on the CPU(s) and video card.
A good system is useless if it hits a heat shutdown [or worse] 5 mins after booting.
RAM is important! (Score:2)
While it's not necessary to get overly-expensive RAM as most overclockers would want, some one building their own system should be looking to a quality name-brand for their RAM.
Any time you have a system malfunction due to bad RAM, it's usually hard to diagnose and incredibly frustrating. The best RAM maintenance is preventive.
The reason name brand RAM is important is due to the origins of budget RAM: Most budget sellers get their RAM from batches that did
Re:RAM is important! (Score:2)
So, what you are saying is that you agree with me completely.
I stand corrected (Score:2)
I need more sleep. I promise, I do norally read the comments I reply to.
Re:tomshardware.com (Score:4, Informative)
--trb
Re:tomshardware.com (Score:3, Informative)
Well (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Well (Score:3, Informative)
I built an AMD setup about 4-5 years back. My CPU is an 800MHz Duron, old Socket A. Until a couple of months ago, AMD were still selling CPUs that would fit old Socket A. During that time, the number of different Intel sockets used has been well into the teens. Your chances of getting a replacement Intel CPU should your old one fail? Close to zero. Your chances of getting a better fan for an older Intel CPU if you get tired of the noise? Close to zero. Both of these, it's "replace-the-mobo"
Narrow Down at the Start (Score:5, Informative)
The first thing you need to decide is things like do you want a little computer (like a Shuttle) or something special (dual-cpu SLI) etc. The odder your request, the more your field is automatically narrowed down. The rest of this will apply, but I"ll assume you just want a normal (probably 1, maybe 2 CPU) board without SLI.
Start with the big one. Do you want Intel or AMD? I would go with AMD at this moment, but the choice is yours. So now that you know that, you eliminate a large chunk of stuff. So lets say you want AMD (same basic things for Intel).
Do you want dual processor (NOT CORE, PROCESSOR). If you want multiple sockets (dual rules, but you could get the same benefit with a dual core these days). If you do, that will severely limit your chipset choices and motherboard choices (because most dual-cpu boards are designed for servers). So by reading articles on the CPU you want, you can find out which chipsets support it. Make sure to future-proof. Even if you don't want a dual-core Athlon 64 today, get a chipset that would support it. This will cut down your chipset choices further.
Then look up the chipsets (with reviews of those). These will let you see the features to find something you'd really like that would narrow things down (say SLI as only a few chipsets support that). That way you can find the chipset you want (or at least a list of those you DON'T want).
Now you know your processor type, and a chipset (or small list). Now if want SLI then based on your graphics brand many of these decisions are made for you. With this information you can go out looking various motherboard manufacturers' sites looking for boards that have what you want (or close to it). From here you read reviews and narrow things down.
I've stopped following all this stuff closely as I moved to laptops and then Mac (neither of which can you build your own). I'd say the most important thing would be the processor right now. You need to decide how much you want this system. Because while there are always new revisions coming out every few months, we are about to see some big changes. Intel is going to release their new chips (Yonah?) based on the Pentium M for the desktop. AMD will be moving to a new socket soon to enable them to use DDR2. So you may want to wait. On the other hand, the new Intel processor might not be enough for you wait, and you may see DDR as just fine (because when they first hit the street, the new CPUs and boards will be expensive and might not be worth it to you).
You've got homework to do, but if you just go looking at motherboards for features you like and try to decide the other factors (SLI, CPU, memory, etc) based on that you can be easily overwhelmed at one manufacturer's site.
I hope this helps. This is the process that I went through every time I built a computer, but like I said I used to keep up with this stuff much more than it sounds like you do (I'm now where you seem to be: I know some general stuff but I'd need a bunch of research before even starting to look at parts to buy).
Re:Narrow Down at the Start (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Narrow Down at the Start (Score:5, Informative)
Next, pick some RAM. You either want DDR or DDR2. There isn't a big performance gain for DDR2 right now, but that could change in the next 6 months. Get either Kingston or Corsair. If you overclock, look for high speed and low timings. If you don't overclock, get HyperX or XMS memory rated for the 3200 (DDR-400) range.
The MoBo is the heart of your system. To not get PCI-X would be a crime. Grab a board from a reputable company. I like ASUS for stability and MSI or Abit for overclocking and options. Look for sound and Gig-E built in. Get SATA RAID if you swing that way. Even if you don't plan on using RAID, SATA RAID is a standard on most of the nicer boards.
SLI may or may not be a gimick. I think it is. If you don't plan on buying two top-of-the-line GPUs right now, then, chances are you never will.
Look at the MSI Neo4 Platinum for PCI-X and the Neo2 Platinum if you just have to have AGP.
Really, and Socket 939 board with a Nforce4 chipset will do fine.
If you get a dual core chip, make sure you have a way to flash the BIOS before you install the chip. 90% of the boards out there will not boot out of the box with a dual core chip.
If you are a gamer, grab one of the GF7800 cards. Between the GT and GTX boards, you should be able to fit one in your budget.
If you aren't a gamer, look at some special needs. Do you need TV-In? Do you want to do TV-Out? Dual monitors? I picked up a PVR-250 for TV-In and my GF 6600GT does a fine job on dual monitors and will even do Composite/Component/S-Video out to my HDTV with no problems.
On-board sound is fine for 90% of the applications out there. If you game, look at getting some USB headphones. They will have a DAC in the headset and will provide nice, clear sound.
I have a Plantronics USB headset. I also do a lot of Flight Sims. I use the headset to pipe the voice comms from TeamSpeak and then let my external speakers take care of the in-game sounds. It's a real nice setup.
Spend some time looking for a nice case. A good case will last through several computers. Maybe look for something BTX/ATX compatible.
Get a gig of memory. 2 gigs is probably overkill.
Get two hard drives. A Raptor for C:\ and a big drive for storage. Get SATA if you can.
Get a good combo CD/DVD-R/RW. SATA is probably overkill, but will keep the insides clean.
Get a nice, big power supply. At least 400 watts; maybe 500. Look for something with a 120mm fan. It'll be quieter than those with 80mm fans.
As for fans, you'll need at least one fan for the case. If you chose wisely, the case will accept a 120mm fan right in front of the hard drive cage. The power supply fan can take care of the exaust in most cases.
When you put the thing together, throw in the RAM, CPU and Heatsink, and video card. After that, boot it to make sure it POSTs.
From there, install your CD/DVD drive and throw in a Memtest86+ CD. Boot and let it run the test for 12 to 24 hours. If you have no errors, boot off a Knoppix DVD and make sure the sound card, NICs, and video card work fine. Play some 3D games in Knoppix just to verify there are no problems.
After that, install your main hard drive and reboot into Knoppix. Format the drive and run a FSCK to test the disk. After that, delete all the partitions and then you can install the OS of your choice.
If you use WinXP, look at using something like NLite to slipstream SP2, all the hotfixes, and the latest drivers for your MoBo.
Good luck.
go PCIe not PCI-X (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Flashing the BIOS before installing the CPU? (Score:2)
Re:Narrow Down at the Start (Score:4, Informative)
Make sure to future-proof. Even if you don't want a dual-core Athlon 64 today, get a chipset that would support it. This will cut down your chipset choices further.
Thinking about the possible future upgrades is, from my past experience, not worth the money. I have never ever upgraded just the CPU (even on high-end servers[*]). By the time you decide that the present CPU is too slow the new CPUs will use better memory interfaces, which means at least the memory upgrade as well, but the new memory interface usually means the new mainboard infrastructure or new CPU socket. Remember that the memory bandwidth and latency are the main bottlenecks of the current computers - upgrading just the CPU does not solve it.
That said, there is nothing wrong with dual-core support on the chipset per se. Just don't expect you would ever use it as an upgrade path. Instead try to think about the applications this computer will run. Last time I have checked, the prices of (for example) Opteron 254 (2.8 GHz single core) was similar to the price of Opteron 270 (2.0 GHz dual core). If your load can be parallelized (HTTP serving, spam filtering, some databases, etc.), you will benefit from the additional CPU core, even though both cores are running at the lower frequency. If you have a highly serialized load (workstation?), the higher frequency of the (single) CPU will probably be better.
[*] Well, many years ago we did a CPU upgrade of the SGI Challenge. However, the price of the upgrade was almost the same as the price of the new server.
Re:Narrow Down at the Start (Score:2)
Thinking about the possible future upgrades is, from my past experience, not worth the money. I have never ever upgraded just the CPU (even on high-end servers[*]). By the time you decide that the present CPU is too slow the new CPUs will use better memory interfaces, which means at least the memory upgrade as well, but the new memory interfac
Re:Narrow Down at the Start (Score:2)
I mostly agree however it depends a bit on where on the price/performance curve you are. At the higher end of the curve future upgrades means "stuff that's not available now at any price" and in that case you're 100% correct. At the lower end future upgrades may just mean "stuff that's available now but too expensive". In that case it might make sense to buy, for example, the cheapest socket 939 cpu you can get a
I Don't (Score:3, Interesting)
I guess that I just don't have the patience anymore to try and wrangle motherboards, CPUs, hard drives, peripherals, and Windows into a happy coexistence.
I wanted something that I could just plug in and run.
We'll see if I guessed right.
Re:I Don't (Score:3, Informative)
Re:I Don't (Score:2)
Re:I Don't (Score:3, Informative)
That said, are you sure you want to build your own PC? I built my own for years but finally got tired of it. At a certain point I decided the time wasn't worth it, and I wanted to be able to call the manufacturer if something went wrong and say "fix it".
I bought a laptop (Dell) and never regretted that I didn't build another computer. When things happened, I could call dell about it instead of searching forms on the internet to try to diagnose whatever odd
Re:I Don't (Score:3, Interesting)
About 3 years ago I built my own PCs, then switched to Macs. I've been using the same 1ghz Powerbook for two and a half years, and it still feels zippier than my 2ghz work machine that has to run Windows for Outlook.
Recently someone gave me a hand-me-down 2ghz P4 Prescott bare-bones system, with Twinview-capable NVidia card. I loaded it up with Ubuntu and st
Re:I Don't (Score:2)
I've got an old G4 Cube & a Dual 2.5 G5 PowerMac. Moving the applications that I run more or less constantly to the Cube has pretty much removed the word "wait" from my computing experience. The only thing I find myself waiting on is when I am assemble extremely large panoramic photos and this is never more than many seconds and certainly not more than a couple of minutes. GCC, for the small applications I write, is so fast it's vitually instantaneous. Also interesting is several of t
Re:I Don't (Score:2)
Don't ge
Re:I Don't (Score:2, Informative)
Build Your Own is So Passe (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Build Your Own is So Passe (Score:2)
> Computer.
Impressive. They have a pretty wide selection of components available. However they were about two hundred above what I recently ordered the parts for and build in an hour or so. If I had to build a hundred boxes on a one time basis I'd consider them. More than that or if I were likely to do it repeatedly I'd hire a couple of college students.
The problem is like every other similar vendor, their selec
Re:Build Your Own is So Passe (Score:2)
Some Helpful Sites (Score:3, Informative)
These sites might be of assistance:
www.anandtech.com [anandtech.com]
www.sharkyextreme.com [sharkyextreme.com]
www.lostcircuits.com [lostcircuits.com]
start with the processor (Score:3, Insightful)
First I find the processor I want, then I get the system board, memory, HD, DVD, case, keyboard, monitor, etc.. Having saved by building it myself, I like to splurge on a nice case, aluminium or fish tank cases are nice.
Re:start with the processor (Score:3, Informative)
I stick with the high-quality vendors such as:
NewEgg.com - ZipZoomFly.com - MonarchComputer.com - ClubIT.com
To find the cream-of-the-crop vendors, use: ResellerRatings.com
Also check out the Hot Deals sections of forums (read the FAQ, before you post!)
www.hardforum.com
forums.anandtech.com
Here's my guide. (Score:2, Informative)
Second, buy compatible RAM. (The mobo determines what you need to buy.) Get at least 1GB. Always get your RAM such that you will have two (or four) identical DIMMs. Get the fastest RAM that your mobo can handle. Use the manufacturer's website to determine that. For most AMD systems, this will PC3200 DDR SDRAM. For most (new) Intel mobos, this will be some type of DDR2. DDR2 and DDR have nothing to do with dual-channel memory. That is about whether you have two (or four) identi
Re:Here's my guide. (Score:2, Informative)
My system:
Athlon64 3500+, overclocked (currently 2.4ghz, probably going to push it more)
GeForce 7800GT
2gb OCZ Platinum RAM
MSI K8N Neo4 Platinum
1x Samsung Spinpoint 120gb hard drive
1x NEC ND-3540A DVD burner
Seasonic S12-380 power supply (380 watt, obviously)
Just for fun, I stuck an ammeter on the power input. At full load, running Quake 4, with the overclocked CPU and high-end video card, the whole thing draws... 1.
Re:Here's my guide. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Here's my guide. (Score:3, Insightful)
Otherwise good advice, but this is awful. Do NOT skimp on the monitor. Right now you're not playing Halflife 2, you're reading /. That's something that will work exactly the same with any CPU, video card, hard disk, whatever. Hell, I could dig up my old P90 from 1995, set up a lightweight distro, and Slashdot would work just as well as it does on the latest-n-greatest. The c
Re:Here's my guide. (Score:1)
Ah yes... the melodious clackety-clack of IBM keys, with their smooth but firm response. You knew you were typing with those bad boys. And more importan
look for value (Score:3, Insightful)
Here's a hint on how to get the best value when buying certain kinds of components and money is not an overriding factor. When narrowing down your search for that one component, you'll reach a point where you've found a line of processors, memory, or hard disks that have the features you want. The only difference among your choices is speed or size. The price increases with those numbers, but almost never linearly. Graph speed/size vs price of any current processor model to see what I mean.
At the lower left, you'll see the line rise steadily and then about midway through it starts to rise more rapidly. At any point above that rise, you're paying significantly more money at each increment for only moderate or even insignificant performance gains. The sweet spot for value is right before that rise.
The Simple accurate way (Score:5, Interesting)
-Rick
Re:The Simple accurate way (Score:1)
Re:The Simple accurate way (Score:2)
-Rick
Re:The Simple accurate way (Score:1)
Let's be freaking realistic here. An $800 system from Newegg is probably closer to a $1,000 Dell system, and I'm probably being *very* generous with that premium. When you're buying from Dell, you're also paying for assembly and tech support. Personally, I like to build my own and would never buy a desktop system from Dell.
Re:The Simple accurate way (Score:2)
Or you could go Hybrid (Score:2)
Intel P4 HyperThreaded 3.0GHz base system with a full Gig of memory, a 160G hard drive and a 16x DVD (dual layer) burner and an Audigy 2 for about $900 shipped - including a 19" LCD and a legit license for XP.
Toss the crap video card it came with and drop in the Gigabyte Dual GF 6800 SLI card you have for $220 and you are lookin
The Short Answer (Score:5, Informative)
Three other points I would add:
1. All the praise of Tom's Hardware Guide is absolutely true.
2. Analog sources can be good... flip through a few Computer Shopper magazines and the Consumer Reports Buyer's Guide before making significant purchases.
3. Before you spend a dime, run the numbers and figure out whether or not building it yourself is really worth it. Is there a config you want that Dell doesn't offer? How does price compare to an off-the-shelf solution? Would you prefer a single point of contact for repair issues or are you comfortable dealing with multiple vendors? Depending on what you need it to do, a DIY solution might very well be better, faster, and cheaper... just check first.
Also, just in case, this is solely my opinion and not necessarily the opinion of my employer.
Re:The Short Answer (Score:2)
Re:The Short Answer (Score:2)
A few tips on how to vary from their specs. Pick a processor between the Hotrod or Budgetbox, and
Re:The Short Answer (Score:1)
Of course, if you are going to use it with Windows, then by all means, it's cheaper to get Windows that way than to buy a retail box.
Re:The Short Answer (Score:2)
I'd like my configuration to be easily upgradeable: as in no bloody hands working in the case, no 140$ 200W PSU, no propietary motherboard, no 6 dozen things to uninstall after a reload, etc.
It's a valid point I suppose: you only save money if you are building a high-end machine, and then you only save if you don't screw it up the first time by jamming RAM in backwards or damaging the CPU. But I think for most DIYers the money part, for this particular typ
Re:The Short Answer (Score:2)
Seriously, if you want a box that is friendly to work on, you should at least find a Dell you can open and look at. I have seen some nice cases over the years; Compaq Proliant 800s are nice to work in, I have a huge Antec tower for my dual Athlon, but my 400SCs that I bought from Dell are some of the nicest cases I've
Re:The Short Answer (Score:2)
I don't feel like I'm invested in the machine and need to do upgrades to extend it's life.
I don't feel like I need to replace the entire box without a specific reason. Just the case (full tower antec, I forget which model right this second) could last me 5-10 years unless I feel a pressing need to get a smaller one.
I guess the real point is this: would you tel
Re:The Short Answer (Score:2)
Oh goody, Slashdot analogies. Unfortunately, the only similarity is 'hand-built'. If you're truly 'building' a classic car, you are using parts that are decades old. That do the same job as current parts, try that with a computer. My '67 326ci Pontiac Firebird could use the same fuel as my '02 4.3l, albeit with a fuel additive. And unlike my computers will app
Re:The Short Answer (Score:2)
Re:The Short Answer (Score:2)
Something to mention if you do end up looking at Dell or HP or any of the prebuilt companies out there. If you find a machine that they have that looks like it might be what you want, dig around the service area of their site for the User Guide or Service Manual. Basically, something that will lay out in detail exactly what chipsets and components are used. These typically go into more details than the specs page, and usually include mobo layout diagrams
Start at the high-level: what architecture? (Score:4, Interesting)
IF one knows that one wants a machine that will run "new" release programs in 3 years, that means AMD64, rather than 32-bit
( compatibility-problems, as-in programs simply not running, have been found on the Intel implimentation of x86_64 )
That cuts down the field greatly.
THEN, one looks at whether the thing is guaranteed to be wordprocessing-only
( or equivalent non-taxing, ie NO multimedia-rendering or vid-conferencing, ferinstance ),
and one can sanely go with single-channel-RAM ( socket 754 ),
rather-than dual-channel-RAM ( socket-939 or socket-940 )
THEN once looks at what kind of expandibility one may need, later. . .
Video-card?
No-longer does AGP count ( they aren't making top-end ones anymore, and soon won't be making middle-of-the-road ones, either! ),
so one requires PCIe ( PCI-Express ) 16x on the motherboard.
Does one want to be forced to find a firewire-card to add-in later? or does one want everything built-in?
Does one want the ability to add-in PCIe add-in cards for, say, high-end-audio, or for video-capture, or for ANYTHING?
one needs PCIe slots, then, too ( PCI is going the way of the dodo )
All in all, the one mobo I know-of, that at-the-moment covers it ( including a 4x PCIe slot, for later! ),
is by MSI http://www.msicomputer.com/index2.asp [msicomputer.com]
Unfortunately, it's got a fan on the chipset,
so it's an on-when-one-uses-it cheap workstation-board,
rather-than an always-on everything-server-board
( fans die after however many running-hours they happen to survive )
http://www.msicomputer.com/product/p_spec.asp?mode l=K8N_Neo4_Platinum&class=mb [msicomputer.com]
Abit's got one that is missing the PCIe 4x slot, but that has no chipset-fan, called the
Abit AN8 Ultra
http://www.abit-usa.com/products/mb/techspec.php?c ategories=1&model=278 [abit-usa.com]
Right, that's the mobo, howabout the CPU?
syncronous-with-the-RAM is a good rule
IF the mobo can deal-with PC3200 RAM ( these 2 can ), then that means the RAM's communicating-speed is 400MHz ( rather-than, say, 333MHz ) .
Since there isn't any valid thing as 1/3 of a wait-cycle ( it's either 0 or it's 1, with computers ), I want the CPU's actual physical speed to be a multiple of that, like say 2000MHz.
That gets the speed, so what choices are there?
cheap, and I wasn't able to get-one, is the
SDA3400DIO28W Sempron 3400+ Socket 939 ( the "3400+" is the approximate equivalent in Intel-speed, known-as its "rating" )
More expensive, and having more on-chip cache-memory, is the
2.0 GHz 939-pin Athlon 64 3200+
Ultimate capability would-be the X2 chip ( 2 Athlon64 cores in one chip, so when one program is swamping one core, the system still responds )
http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/ProductInforma tion/0,,30_118_9485_13041%5E13076,00.html [amd.com]
shows that cheapest multiple-of-400MHz X2 chip is the "3800+" and the highest-end is 2.4GHz "4800+"
Hit http://www.pricewatch.com/ [pricewatch.com] to discover what sane-prices are for the things, but be sitting-down when you see the highest-end ones. .
Case? Aluminum. That keeps hard-drives cooler ( whole case acts like a nice-big heatsink ).
Make decorations for it using pipecleaners & a hot-melt-glue gun, if you want. . . : )
Video-card?
IF you want quiet, go for ATI rather-than NVidia ( fan-speed, I'm talking about, here ),
and if you want cheap, grab some X300 or something,
the higher-end cards the X800 XL is a very good bu
Re:Start at the high-level: what architecture? (Score:1)
Which display to get should be decided on it's primary task. If you care most about gaming, get a nice CRT. If you care most about anything else (with the exception I suppose fo very accurate color work) get a LCD.
I'm sitting in front of a 21" Trinitron CRT, and a 20" Dell 2000fp LCD. I run my IDE across the full expanse of both, the LCD is far easier to look at then
Re:Start at the high-level: what architecture? (Score:2)
( compatibility-problems, as-in programs simply not running, have been found on the Intel implimentation of x86_64 )
That cuts down the field greatly.
It also cuts down the cash in your wallet greatly. Really, who cares what will run new release programs in 3 years. You're going to want a new machine by then anyway. Buy what it takes to run what you do now and the foreseeable future. Ma
Re:Start at the high-level: what architecture? (Score:1)
Geeks churn, most normal-people don't.
( this referring to the frequency of replacing one's machines )
That the OPer is totally out-of-the-loop on modern sockets etc. indicates that they AREN'T going to replace the machine every 2 years,
therefore their making this machine an investment rather than a 2-year-lease-equivalent
( transposed from cars, where people are rationaller, to computers where people aren't ),
seems sane.
The OP began with "It's been a few years since I built my current system by. . .",
Re:Start at the high-level: what architecture? (Score:2)
( this referring to the frequency of replacing one's machines )
Well, I just replied to another message comparing home built PCs to classic cars, so I won't go into all the falacies again. Briefly, most of the suggestions here are for bleeding edge equipment that someone who waits 'several years' between upgrades doesn't need. Putting in an AMD64 is not a cost effective solution because it extend life to dollars ratio doesn't work. It's about $175 for the cheapest MB/CP
Re:Start at the high-level: what architecture? (Score:1)
BTW, the guy who is:
a) asserting that my telling the OP to get a good surge-suppresor means they are going to get a worthless one, therefore
b) I should have recommended a cheap UPS to protect them against brownouts. . . isn't getting that
c) cheap UPSes don't protect against brownouts/sags, only line-interactive and double-conversion ones do. AND
d) if they wouldn't get a good surge-suppressor, what in hell makes me think they're going to get a real UPS, anyways?
I was wrong to not-think of the UPS.
P
narrow down to AMD and Nvidia (Score:3, Informative)
First, processors. Intel highly overcharged everyone for years until AMD starting giving them some competition. For that reason alone I buy AMD CPUs exclusively - but they just happen to be the best in most every category currently anyway. Get a 64bit dual core processor, let price decide which one. Get the retail version with a fan and a better warranty.
Motherboard - narrow down by chipset first looking for stability in the drivers etc. Forums can help you a lot here. My advice is go with a motherboard with an Nvidia chipset - they seem to have less bugs and better drivers than VIA. Besides I will be recommending an Nvidia video card and that just helps on the compatibility front. If you are going all new then get a motherboard with PCIe video card slots instead of AGP. Don't get SLI (dual video cards) unless you are really into games and want to spend a lot of money on this.
Next go find a good vendor, (newegg.com), that's as important as any thing else. Check them out on resellerratings.com - look at their satisfaction ratings from when people need to do returns; (newegg.com) that will tell you the most. Or just go to newegg.com. They are the best general vendor out there (newegg.com) with the best customer service, but a little bit pricey because of it. (newegg.com)
From that vendor get the list of motherboards that meet the goals above, and research those boards on the forums (pcper.com) and find one that people are not having trouble with. Don't worry about the absolute fastest performance, the difference between brands is usually negligible. Asus motherboards are usually a safe bet.
Video card - get the best Nvidia card your budget will allow. Don't even think about ATI. Buggy cards, buggy drivers, have been that way for years. ATI's idea of adding stability to their drivers is to add a utility that auto-restarts them when they crash. Make sure that the type of video card matches the video card slot on the motherboard - AGP vs. PCIe.
Memory - get name brand - Corsair, Crucial or Kingston all make me happy.
HD - get Western Digital (one with a 5 year warranty) or Seagate - you can check storagereview.com for specifics.
Don't get a cheap power supply - either buy one separately or get a good name brand case with a power supply - antech etc. There are some good power supply reviews around.
Get nice interface items - keyboard, mouse, speakers, monitor. Those items really control how you interact with your computer and are usually overlooked. Go to circuit city or something and try different ones, find out what you like. Personally I go for the Microsoft Natural Pro keyboards and 5 button laser mouse.
DVD drives, Plextor.is usually a safe bet.
That's it!
Re:narrow down to AMD and Nvidia (Score:1)
So because Intel didn't have any competition for a few years, you've decided to punish them? I don't get it. They weren't a "monopoly" because you still had other compatible chips, but they all sucked. So what we're they supposed to do? Keep a very low price in the hopes that they would eventually get some competition so they could raise it?
Re:narrow down to AMD and Nvidia (Score:1)
Not in my experience. My old SiS motherboard was more stable than this nForce4 Ultra. I get paging errors and total system lockups when I have any cards in the PCI slots (so far tried it with a TV tuner and an Audigy) and if I turn on the built in firewall my downloads are corrupted and I sometimes lose whole chunks of web pages.
I'm not the only one with these problems.
Search for paging error nforce4 [google.co.uk]
Search for nforce [google.co.uk]
A couple guides will help orient you (Score:4, Informative)
I also happen to really like Dan Bernstein's advice [cr.yp.to], especially for a good *BSD desktop box. Like Ars, Dan does an excellent job explaining why he chose what he did.
The ars guides are usually almost current. DJB's is not as current. But look at them for the explanations, even if you want newer components. You can apply their advice to the in depth discussions of particular components you'll find at places like Tom's, HardOCP, AnandTech, etc.
Re:A couple guides will help orient you (Score:2)
Of course, don't follow the above advice, or I'll have to deal with bad hardware as well ;-)
Yes (Score:2)
Really, it is easier, cheaper, unless you want AMD - then you are on your own
Re:Yes (Score:1)
http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/11
Re:Yes (Score:1)
Yes it's cheaper and easier, but don't ever plan on upgrading it. They go out of their way to make it difficult by providing as much as possible onboard and as few pci slots as possible. This changes a little bit if you look at their really high-end systems, but then you lose pretty much all of the cost savings. Not to mention, that even on the high-end systems they go as cheap as they can on a lot of little details like power
Two easy steps to an affordable home built PC (Score:2, Insightful)
Catching Up (Score:5, Informative)
Another good thing to do is to read articles and reviews on tech sites and window-shop on online stores that sell pre-built rigs to get an idea of what kinds of components are being put in various computers these days. Then, shop around to see what deals are out there and be sure to read reviews of specific components. Most importantly, SEARCH FORUMS (via Google) to see if people have problems with a given component -- I can't stress this enough! My friends and I have been both bitten by buying a compnent without researching it first, and saved by reading people's complaints about it before buying.
Finally, if you have money don't be afraid to just dive in and buy a bunch of parts. If you're really lost, you're best of getting them from a local parts retailer so you can exchange out anything you accidentally buy that turns out to be incompatible with the rest of your parts.
If you can't afford to screw up, I'd recommend finding a online store that lets you build a custom system from parts on their site. They usually make sure you can only pick combos that will work, and the price will be better than a totally shrinkwrapped system from a major retailer. You can also then swap out parts in the system as you learn more.
Either way you go, you'll need to keep at it for a few years before you really know your stuff. Eventually you'll have preferences for brands and price ranges on everything, a list of regular sites and/or stores to get parts from, and hangouts for news, reviews and discussion of components and issues with them.
Building systems for friends and family (as long as you're willing to do follow up support) is also a good way to figure out what's good and what isn't without wasting your own money >:D
Here are some personal recommendations based on a decade or two of experience (ramble alert!):
- Stay away from VIA for motherboard chipsets if you decide to build an AMD-based system. They're better these days, but I've been burned repeatedly over the last half dozen years. In fact, stay away from everyone but Intel or nVidia; nVidia is now my mobo chipset manufacturer of choice, despite dumping the awesome SoundStorm chipset from their newer mobo chipsets (good thing there are DDL PCI cards out now, but Realtek onboard sound is respectable too these days)
- You get what you pay for with power supplies (up to a point of course). Don't buy that $25 550 Watt power supply because it'll probably blow out in 6 months or the first time it hits anything near 550 Watts - whichever comes first.
- newegg.com is an awesome online parts retailer. If you're into modding, xoxide.com and directron.com are worth a look, but beware of overpriced items.
- Don't believe anything that store clerks/sales reps tell you. If you're looking at something in a retail store, go home and research it first and then go back and buy it if you're still interested. Note that you can usually get better deals online, but local retailers are good in a pinch if you need something right away.
- For those in the Puget Sound area: Fry's is the bomb, and CompuCare is decent. PC Club is so-so. Stay away from CompUSA unless you're really desperate! And never, EVER buy anything computer-related at OfficeWhatever/Staples unless it's printer or scanner related - they're overpriced on everything.
- Netgear makes excellent network hardware, although I'm in love with the WRT54G/GS (but not the current on-the-shelf versions, which have been neutered) wireless routers due to their ability to run homebrew Linux-based firmware.
- 64-bit CPUs and PCI Express motherboards & video cards are now worth buying. I plan to upgrade from my 32-bit, AGP 8x system early next year at the latest.
- nVidia and ATI are neck-and-neck in the video card business right now. Stay away from All-In-Wonde
Re:Catching Up (Score:5, Informative)
It's better to resist the temptation to buy the very top-of-the-line, cutting-edge components; if you don't you'll end up having to deal with more quirks (due to early revision hardware) and will have to wait longer to upgrade, meaning that the parts will be more obsolete by the time you upgrade than more modest ones would have been with a sooner upgrade.
Yeah (Score:2)
Here's a clue if you don't want to think for yourself:
1) Athlon64 architecture rules, just dump Intel.
2) Better yet, wait for their new socket design to appear early next year or so, since the current Athlon64 socket interface is about to die, and the new has twice the memory speed.
3) When you see the new Athlon64's come out, look at the price curve of the various speed offerings in the new socket. Pick the one somewhere in the middle just before the price goes skyrocketing upwards - that one's probably yo
Do you live in Toronto? (Score:2)
Check this out http://filtechcomputer.com/Product/syspack.asp?nS y sPackID=1032 [filtechcomputer.com] Been drueling over it, they'll build and test it for you. Remember it's in $CND so it's basically about $830 U.S and the X2 3800 would be 340 on it's own.
I might consider upgrading to a DVD burner and swapping out the Vid card but they'll let you do that.
Pick to suit your needs first. (Score:2)
If it's games, then you will need PCI-Express, preferably 2 slots. If it's office / web stuff, then buy whatever is cheap but quality - speed really isn't a factor so save a few bucks by avoiding top end CPUs/GPUs/RAM (don't skimp on the HD, keyboard, mouse, or monitor though). If you want a PC for a home theatre setting, then noise level is crucial and size is very important - nowadays, that's generally AMD territory, sin
Before you go with Dell... (Score:2)
Oh, also, search for "Sony DRM" and see how you feel about rewarding them with your money.
Finally, insist on a 10 year warranty on all capacitors.
Generally... (Score:3, Informative)
I'd highly suggest an
AMD 3500+ on an ASUS A8N-SLI 32X Deluxe Motherboard.
This gives you pretty good options for the future-- processor upgrades from single core to duel core, single video card to duel video card, plenty of pci slots, sata, usb, firewire, etc.
I've been extremely happy with my older a8n-sli.
Consider buying prebuilt (Score:1)
If you are doing it to save money then consider prebuilt systems.
My last few systems were all prebuilt. All were on sale. Yes, I added stuff to them within a month of buying them but I still saved money.
Big advantages to prebuilt:
You KNOW the configuration boots straight off, barring a DOA part.
You have a warranty on the whole unit - no finger-pointing if the parts "work" individually but not together.
If you b
Find a reputable dealer (Score:2)
Buying a complete system gets you
In my case the first MB they put in was faulty, so they changed it and reran the burn-in. Had to wait an extra two days. F
Drivers. (Score:2)
Re:Drivers. (Score:3, Interesting)
Agreed, even as a purely practical matter having free drivers available tends to improve your odds of being able to use it with some future/different OS/kernel. Most geeks (at least the kind that build their own systems) tend to have more than one computer and often pass systems/components down to others and try out different OSs. In general hardware with Free drivers tends to use standard int
How I make my decisions... (Score:1)
Motherboard: This is where I make little compromise. It MUST have the best chipset, and have that chipset implemented properly. The chipset is usually the one point where you can lose most of your performance anymore, so be picky...you can cut corners elsewhere. Remember to pick your CPU make first (P4/Athlon), so keep that in mind. Also note AGP is going away, so now may be a good time to embrace PCI-Express
RAM: generic will d
I've built 3 systems, and it gets easier with time (Score:1)
The first system I built was an Athlon64 3400+ Clawhammer with a gig of RAM. I've not had a problem with it to this day. The second was a 3200+ Venice core, and the third was a Sempron64 budget computer. The two Athlon systems were around $1200-1300 and are still VERY respectable gaming machines. The budget Sempron64 obsolutely flies on the desktop, and it will play most games, although graphics heavy FPS give it problems because it uses integrated video.
Some important things I've learned along the way:
Yeah, its confusing ain't it (Score:2, Insightful)
The bottom line is, don't worry too much about price, and start to focus on particular brands.
If your last computer ran smoothly for a number of years, then stick with the brands you are familiar with. They probably won't fail you again with your new computer.
Sure, some other brand might offer a su
Huh? (Score:1)
Real geeks build their computers with a PCB board and a soldering iron!
heat (Score:1)
November 2004 saw AMD move into the 90 nm age, nine months after Intel did. AMD unveiled a new and very impressive CPU, codenamed Winchester (D0), which was only available in the low-cost market segment. As such, the core made its way into the Athlon 64 3000+, 3200+ and 3500+ models. The technology it was based on was anything but low-cost, though: we would hav
Not that hard... (Score:2)