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Ask Slashdot: Are You Excited About Upcoming 4-inch iPhone or 9.7-inch iPad Pro? 310

If rumors are to be believed, at its 'Let Us Loop You In' event on Monday, Apple will launch a new smartphone dubbed "iPhone SE," and a new tablet dubbed "iPad Pro." According to 9to5Mac's Mark Gurman, who has a reliable track record with Apple news, the iPhone SE will sport a 4-inch display and have the same processor, RAM and other innards as the iPhone 6s, which was launched last year. The new 9.7-inch iPad will reportedly have the same hardware specifications as the 12-inch iPad Pro, which was also unveiled last year. The Associated Press reports that the forthcoming event hasn't stirred "much passion." It adds, "So far, however, there have been no hints of any dramatic announcements, such as last year's highly anticipated Apple Watch debut, or major initiatives like the company's long-rumoured but yet-to-materialize streaming TV service." Are you looking forward to purchasing either of the devices?
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Ask Slashdot: Are You Excited About Upcoming 4-inch iPhone or 9.7-inch iPad Pro?

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  • not one bit (Score:4, Informative)

    by dimko ( 1166489 ) on Monday March 21, 2016 @09:01AM (#51742577)
    Don't buy their products, purely for philosophical/philanthropic reasons.
  • i was looking at buying one for my mom since she has an old and crappy android phone she hates, but i might as well just pass on my 6S to her and buy a 7 later this year. same with my wife's parents. she will just give them her 6 and buy a 7 as well
  • Yadda Yadda Yadda (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 21, 2016 @09:07AM (#51742635)

    Apple has been the whipping boy of Slashdot ever since CmdrTaco's infamous slight of the iPod. Apple could come out with the best product in the world and you'd still have to contend with the Applebash fanaticism around here.

    The bottom line is if you like Apple, so be it. If you don't, so be it. You won't find much in the way of real technological insight and definitely no business insight from the comments here. Save your time and go read something on PhysOrg. You may actually learn something worth knowing instead of fanboy vs fanboy wars that are pointless and only sway the kinds of insecure cretins who really never get beyond the entry level of life.

    • What is being said that is inaccurate? You posted as AC so I can't tell where you have called that out.
    • by Opportunist ( 166417 ) on Monday March 21, 2016 @11:12AM (#51743761)

      Not even that.

      "Are you excited about (product)" is the question asked. And in nearly all cases the answer to this is only a resounding NO. Not because it's Apple but because it's yet another cell phone in a market that is saturated with cell phones that have been "good enough" at the very least 2 generations ago. We're now reaching with cellphones what we reached ages ago with Operating Systems: It's good enough. It does what I want it to do. There is nothing new, nothing innovative, no advantage that I am looking for. There is simply nothing you offer that I want. That's basically it.

      Was Win95 exciting? Hell yeah! True 32bit, a genuine GUI instead of a tack-on. That was exciting! Was the first iPhone exciting? You bet! So many new things (like them or not, it was different!).

      Was Win10 exciting? Nope. What's new about it, it's yet another damn OS without a reason to exist. Is the new iPhone exiting? No. For exactly the same fucking reason!

      • There are still interesting and exciting things happening with phones, just not Apple phones.

        A friend recently bought a Windows phone (Nokia). It was cheap and the battery lasts a week, no kidding. Many Android phones easily get multiple days of heavy use now.

        There have been some really big improvements in phone camera tech in the last six months. The new Nexus devices with their extra large pixels have unbeatable low light performance. Marshmallow also brings some big improvements to SD cards, something people here really seem to want. As well as being for media storage, you can now use the card to expand "internal" storage as well, i.e. the stuff where app data and caches go.

        LG's hot swappable battery is pretty interesting for a lot of people, and again something Slashdot seems keen on.

        I'm still waiting for the perfect phone, so announcements do interest me, but always seem to lead to disappointment. For the record, I want a reasonable amount of memory (64GB+) or expandability via SD card, Qi wireless charging, fingerprint scanner + NFC for payments, around 5.5-6.0 inch screen, 2+ day battery life and unmolested Android OS. The new Nexus devices would have been perfect if they hadn't ditched the Qi.

  • Yes (Score:5, Interesting)

    by HalAtWork ( 926717 ) on Monday March 21, 2016 @09:08AM (#51742645)

    Those are much better sizes for portable devices. Large phones are cumbersome and add little, and heavy 13" devices are more difficult to use for long periods of time unless you're at a desk.

    • Re:Yes (Score:4, Interesting)

      by cadeon ( 977561 ) on Monday March 21, 2016 @09:26AM (#51742793)

      I'm interested, particularly in the phone. #MakePhonesSmallAgain.

      • Indeed. While I'm a Linux guy, Android phones have never seemed "right" to me. But iPhone seems to be OK to use as a phone, other functionality isn't really in your face until you want it. That or I've just gotten used to it. But my iPhone 4 is getting old, and while physically it is in great shape (still 24+ hours on a full charge, no cracks, etc. in screen) I'm stuck on an old version of iOS and almost out of space with my mp3s and pix of my kids... But the form factor on the iPhone 5 and 6 series suc

        • by Lumpy ( 12016 )

          Get a pure android phone.

          Google Play store Nexus is the ONLY android phone worth owning.. All the rest are utter garbage because the makers screw with the OS making it a steaming turd. Samung and HTC make great hardware but shit all over the OS.

          • I would say that HTC deserves props because they allow one to unlock the bootloader, and even though HTC may not do OS updates, there is always CM, which decently supports devices, and is kept up to date reasonably well. Add GApps and NovaLauncher, and the UI is decent.

            I do agree that Nexus is top dog, but at least one can keep HTC devices current with a custom OS without much effort.

      • I couple of years ago I received an iPhone 4s as a work phone. I had been using a (what I consider) reasonably sized Galaxy S3 as a personal phone for a few months before getting the iPhone. I HATED it. I spent more time scrolling the screen around than I did reading whatever was on the screen.

        I'm all for having choices but I'm willing to bet anyone going back to a 4" screen is going to regret it within a day or two.

        • by cruff ( 171569 )

          I'm all for having choices but I'm willing to bet anyone going back to a 4" screen is going to regret it within a day or two.

          Maybe, but for those of us who still use 4" phones, this is a nice option. Personally, I don't want a larger phone, I'd like mine to fit into my pockets without a struggle, and to fit my hand nicely without feeling like it wants to jump out. If I need to use a larger screen, I'll switch to my tablet, laptop or desktop.

          • Re:Yes (Score:4, Interesting)

            by MrKrillls ( 3858631 ) on Monday March 21, 2016 @10:42AM (#51743447)
            Size. I'm glad to see Apple buck the tide of idiot behemoth phones. I'm really glad they are offering a reasonably sized phone. I'm not a mindless Apple fan, and no is, in the end, my answer, but it's complex.

            I really applaud Apple's stance in the latest FBI escapade.

            The hardware is pretty rugged, at least in the 4s, which was my introduction to smartphones. I've used it long enough to appreciate it's strengths and to curse it's weaknesses.

            My biggest gripe, which I cannot imagine Apple would remedy, is that I have no meaningful ability to go into the file system, not enough even to folderize my pictures and re-name them. When your product has room for 900 photos, why in heck can you not allow users to organize them? Yes, I know there are workarounds, but the ones I have dug up are clunky, lame and time intensive.

            There are many other things. Idiotically low memory - 1/2 G - forcing the browser to reload over and over if I jump out of Safari for a moment. The supposed upgrades break apps that fit me well. I was lucky enough to dodge that bullet when I saw a friend's phone with the next version. I couldn't get the same app's new version to do the things I do in a heartbeat on my phone. So, contrary to every good practice, I've stayed with the original OS and never upgraded.

            Then there's Apple's hard-ass stance on independent repair shops. Unconscionable. And the breathtaking bricking incident.

            There's more, but those alone were enough to make me wary of accepting Apple's decisions without checking very carefully.

            In the end, too many things have made the golden cage too tight a fit. So, I'm not excited at all over a new iphone.

        • by printman ( 54032 )

          It's always funny when I hear people complain about the small screen size, but in the same breath complain that they can't text one-handed...

          I for one plan on getting my wife a new 4", assuming that is what Apple comes out with. Ever since she upgraded to the 6 she has regretted the larger size simply because it hurts her hand trying to use it one-handed. There's a reason why all of the marketing for the larger phones, including the iPhone 6 series, shows everyone using the phone two-handed... Personally I

          • by Lumpy ( 12016 )

            These were the exact same people 3 years ago were screaming that only idiots would want a large phone.

    • Agreed. Now add a user replaceable battery and storage (I am not talking solder) and we'll talk.
    • by ranton ( 36917 )

      [I prefer these] sizes for portable devices. Large phones are cumbersome [for me] and add little [to my experience using them], and 13" devices are [too heavy for me] and more difficult [for me] to use for long periods of time unless [I'm] at a desk.

      There, fixed that for you. Now your post presents your reasonable opinions instead of you pretending your opinions should be taken as fact.

      I think it is a very good thing Apple is providing a small phone for users who like them. One of my main gripes with Apple in the last decade is they don't give enough options to their users under the guise of knowing what is best for them. This is a step in the right direction, even though I am firmly in the camp who likes larger devices. (being over six foot tall with

    • "Large phones are cumbersome and add little...

      ...in my opinion." I have small hands. Not like Donald Trump small, but on the small side. I still love my 6s Plus because it's big enough that I can read clearly and type accurately on a bumpy morning commute. There's nothing as frustrating as trying to squint at a message and reply by stabbing at a tiny moving target while the bus driver apparently aims for washboard roads.

  • I thought the whole point of this press conference was more to get everyone in Apple's corner prior to their hearing against the DOJ this week. I think they're just rolling out these products outside of the normal release schedule (prior to WWDC) just so that they have an excuse to hold a press conference and talk about how Apple is doing the right thing. At least I hope that's why they're having this event today. The products mean absolutely nothing to me.
    • I think they're just rolling out these products outside of the normal release schedule (prior to WWDC)

      You mean unlike Apple's March 2015 event? Or their March 2011 and 2012 events?

      Or their other products coming out all through the year [wikipedia.org]?

      • I think they're just rolling out these products outside of the normal release schedule (prior to WWDC)

        You mean unlike Apple's March 2015 event? Or their March 2011 and 2012 events?

        Or their other products coming out all through the year [wikipedia.org]?

        Considering that there is nothing especially new or interesting, yes. They always announce refreshes at WWDC and new phones in September. Sure in 2012 they had the retina iPad and there have been occasional out of band releases but this is a refresh of the iPhone 4S and some new watch bands. Wow. Color me excited. But it just happens to be scheduled to the day before their hearing against the DOJ and the day they plan to release a patch for an iMessage encryption bug? I think that's more significant.

  • by jfdavis668 ( 1414919 ) on Monday March 21, 2016 @09:10AM (#51742661)
    Since it has the same screen size as the Macintosh SE.
  • by thermopile ( 571680 ) on Monday March 21, 2016 @09:11AM (#51742665) Homepage

    My 4S is getting very long in the tooth, and I am ready for an upgrade. It all comes down to cost.

    A 64GB 6s today costs $750. If the 64GB 4" version costs $650 or less, I'm sold. If it's the same price as the 6s, I will probably grudgingly shell out the $750 for the 6s.

    I, along with my family, am too tied in to the Apple ecosystem to jump ship now.

    • Any reason you can't go shopping for a used 5s? I imagine prices on those will drop quite a bit once the 5SE or whatever they're calling it hits. You'll get TouchID which is the main nicety of more recent generations.

      • You're right, I could get a 5S for cheap. But my concern with that is that I would then be stuck with doggedly slow hardware in a year, at the tail end of what's supported.

        My traditional business model (as evidenced by the fact that I'm still using the 4S) has been to buy the current model of Apple hardware (but never the Rev 1 of a product!) and ride it as long as possible. Although I haven't run the numbers, that seems a reasonable way to amortize the cost of Apple products while getting decent perfor

  • by jopet ( 538074 )

    i am not

  • by garcia ( 6573 ) on Monday March 21, 2016 @09:14AM (#51742701)

    I have owned an iPhone since the 3G arrived on the market and, up until the 6 came along, I upgraded to the latest and greatest major version each time. For me, the 5/5S were fine sizes and appropriate for what I want them for but the 6 and especially the 6+ were too large. When I needed an upgrade from my 5, I opted to go w/the 5S and have been seriously considering moving to another platform to stay at that size which I find most comfortable.

    With this announcement, I am not "excited" but I am pleased that Apple has realized some of their users do not want something larger and are instead quite happy to stay at a comfortable size for them.

    They'll get my money if they do this but they may not if they don't. Seems like a great business decision, at least to me.

    • by Dog-Cow ( 21281 )

      I had a company-provided 5C for about a year. When the 6 came out, I thought it was big. When I left my previous employer, I bought a 6. Now it seems small.

    • 4 inches is quite a bit smaller than the 5/5s--it's iPhone 4/4s sized. I would suggest holding one in your hand before ordering. I can pretty much guarantee you'll think it's too small.

    • I had exactly the same sentiments, but went with the iphone 6 but if there had been the option for a large capacity 5s then would have been quite happy with that.

      Not sure about 'the loop bit' - I am sure this is a Malcolm Tucker reference - now that would be a product launch I would go to.

      For those that do not know 'In the Loop' then judging by 'house of cards', our last great political drama, you should get your version of Malcolm in about 10 years time.
      NB Malcolm is very occasionally NSFW
      https://www.youtu [youtube.com]

  • He likes the very small screen. He says his old iPhone 4S is too slow on the newest version of iOS to keep using, however.
  • by QuietLagoon ( 813062 ) on Monday March 21, 2016 @09:16AM (#51742717)
    Apple devices are fine so long as all you have are Apple devices.

    But, for example, try to get an AppleTV to work with a media server besides iTunes, and you're out of luck.

    If you enjoy staying locked up inside Apple's Walled Garden, then you may have an interest in the new devices.

    I have no interest in them.

    • by frnic ( 98517 ) on Monday March 21, 2016 @09:37AM (#51742883)

      Uh, you mean like Plex? Theres an app for that.

      • Plex doesn't sync into Apple's Walled Garden. For example, I cannot sync my iPod to Plex. According to Plex support, Plex only syncs to devices that run the Plex app. My iPods do not and cannot run it.

        Apple has built the walls of its garden quite well. Little gets over the walls, from either direction.

      • I'm sure there is but does it work?

        Quite frankly while the ability to connection Apple devices to non Apple devices exists throughout the entire ecosystem is is implemented as little more than lipservice to interoperability.

        Apple + Apple works seamlessly.
        non-Apple + non-Apple works quite well.
        Apple + non-Apple sort of may work if you bash it into submission with an endless stream of hacks from the internet.

    • by Malc ( 1751 )

      Easy enough to install Kodi on it. All I had to do was buy a USB-A to USB-C cable. You need a Mac though becuase XCode is required...

    • by Lumpy ( 12016 )

      "But, for example, try to get an AppleTV to work with a media server besides iTunes, and you're out of luck."

      I use my apple TV with plex daily... It's effortless to do so, just click on app store, download the free PLEX app to the apple TV and launch it.

  • by Bearhouse ( 1034238 ) on Monday March 21, 2016 @09:16AM (#51742719)

    Changed connectors, and thus obsoleted all of the devices in the house & cars that used the iPhone 4/old iPad interface.
    Then made my perfectly fine iPhone 4s unusably slow with a software "upgrade".
    Then disabled all the chargers that used to work fine (with an adaptor tip) for my kids iPhone 6, plus other cables for video out etc.

    Got an Android now; could not be happier. Much cheaper too.
    With SD card reader....
    And I control the encryption and sync to my private servers.

    • Changed connectors, and thus obsoleted all of the devices in the house & cars that used the iPhone 4/old iPad interface.

      You have only yourself to blame for investing so much in a proprietary connector. At least you learned, some people never will.

  • by zerofoo ( 262795 ) on Monday March 21, 2016 @09:17AM (#51742727)

    Apple seems to be stuck in a rut - the products are all very similar in functionality. Form factor seems to be the only significant difference.

    They are a bit like the auto industry at this point.

    • by JBMcB ( 73720 )

      That's actually a strength. They all work similarly, you don't have to re-learn a UI when moving from device to device, and it's easier for developers to support.

      The other end of the spectrum would be Microsoft, where every OS brings you a new and exciting UI experience, where settings are arbitrarily shifted to different places, APIs are added and deprecated (C#/WPF is first class, WHOOPS now C#/Silverlight is first class, WHOOPS now C++/Metro is first class)

    • by swb ( 14022 ) on Monday March 21, 2016 @10:53AM (#51743551)

      I think they're suffering from a crisis of innovation largely brought on by their own iron grip on the hardware and software features.

      As an example, is refusing to support a Bluetooth mouse really meaningful anymore? Maybe it was with iPad 1.0 because they wanted to promote a touch interface and allowing a mouse in on the "ground floor" of a touch-centric device might have corrupted a touch-centric UI, but IMHO there's a lot you can do with a mouse in terms of functionality and productivity that touch or even a pen can't provide. Yet to do this day you can't pair a Bluetooth mouse with an iPad, even if the mouse is only enabled for apps that might specifically support it (ie, won't work in the home screen, settings, etc, but could with with an app specifically written to support mouse events).

      The lightning port is far more locked down than 30 pin was, there's no support for external storage devices, and so on.

      I think if they want "excitement" at this stage they have to open the door to innovation by opening up the device in some ways that lets someone else develop new and interesting uses for it. Apple have fenced themselves in with these devices by restricting so much that the list of interesting uses has become kind of a finite set.

  • Point of diminishing returns I look at a lot of the consumer technology and I see very little which impresses me. Sure each year smart phones in general get faster, better screens, a few things IMHO are gimmicks (force touch, finger print reading, etc), but we don’t get anything that says this new technology will make your life easier. Usually we get technology for technology’s sake.

    I can now skip 2 or 3 generations of tech and not be a big deal. Where a long time ago I remember going f
    • by frnic ( 98517 )

      This seems to be a little hard for people on Slashdot to comprehend.

      Apple is in business to make money, not to make any given individual or small group of geeks happy. And guess what, what they are doing makes them a lot of money. So, why should they change what they are doing? My wife and I are long term Apple users and find their products perfectly acceptable, and the Customer Service stellar. So, we are happy Apple users.

      I expect they will continue making incremental changes on the existing product lines

      • So let Apple worry about their own role in the economy. As you say, they're doing fine. The poster is called a consumer. The consumer's role in the economy is to figure out what they want, expect companies to cater to it, and buy whatever fills that requirement the best.
  • Most phone companies play follow the leader, and if Apple releases a 4" phone, that might bring about the end of this phablet stupidity, especially if the phone isn't gimped in any way.
    • It's a shame that they downmarket a smaller phone. Yeah it's nice that it costs less but some people just want a phone that fits in their pocket and won't break if they sit on it. SE is code for 'cheapskate'
      • by Lumpy ( 12016 )

        What idiot puts their $600 phone in a BACK POCKET and then sits on it?

        I have zero respect for anyone that whines about a product breaking when they intentionally put it in a spot that will expose it to damage to flexing or pressure.

        • Apparently lots of idiots. Also with tighter jeans you can even bend them in your front pocket. And yes, believe it or not people don't always want to have something in their hands and pockets are a convenient place to put things.
    • Apple followed by releasing 4.7" and 5.5" phones. Not the other way around. They stuck with 3.5" phones for too long and it hurt their sales.
      I still agree there is a market for 4" (mini) phones, but it's not very large. Most people getting smaller iPhones will do so because they are cheaper, and despite (not because) of the smaller screen.

  • With all the emphasis on huge phones the last few years, I think it's good to have a powerful phone available in a more compact form factor. It also makes sense to have the pro version of the iPad available in a more traditional tablet size.

    There's nothing revolutionary about either. I'm content with my 5s. I'd enjoy an iPad pro but there's other things I'd rather spend my money on.
  • The reason my answer is no is the same reason that I don't drive $250,000 cars. I can get by with less. Apple measurably has some of the top performing smartphone and tablets on the market. I don't begrudge people that want to spend the money to get the best things in life. I just don't need any of it. My $99 Moto E works good enough for me.
  • by Z80a ( 971949 ) on Monday March 21, 2016 @09:34AM (#51742857)

    I don't want it.

  • No, and stop asking (Score:4, Interesting)

    by TheDarkMaster ( 1292526 ) on Monday March 21, 2016 @09:36AM (#51742873)
    No. Overpriced and inferior hardware, locked OS without any possibility of customization, really shitty way (iTunes) to retrieve or store musics/photos/etc. Why would I buy such a thing except to show to others that I am rich (status symbol)?
    • by afidel ( 530433 )

      inferior hardware
      Uh, there are a LOT of things to bag on Apple about but the performance of their mobile SOC's isn't one of them.

  • Not excited for the 4-inch iPhone, but glad it is "back" in the line up. I was disappointed that Apple stupidly went bigger--after having spent so much time talking shit about big devices--without also hewing to their prior conviction that ~4" was the "best" size. Apple either HAS design credibility, or does not. Human hands haven't changed significantly since the iPhone 5 shipped and their iPhone design philosophy was either right or wrong. Can't have it both ways. So this is rectifying a mistake; can't ge

  • It's just a phone and a tablet, there's no reason to be excited about them.

  • I will care about new phones in approximately 2 years or possibly in a new battery then. In case they are still available and the OS is not an equivalent to Swiss cheese, I could go on with the same phone for 3 more years.
    And then I will check for a phone which is produced fair (or at least the fairest available), has a replaceable battery and a guarantee to deliver those batteries for the following 6 years. Repairability and robustness are also important.
    I doubt that any iPhone or Samsung phone will suffic

  • by jon3k ( 691256 )
    Still using a 5s waiting for something similar size. I'd love to use Android but too many security issues, delayed software updates and shitty manufacturer UIs. I don't need my phone to be any more "open" than my bluray player. I really don't give a shit if I can't root it and install some app I don't need. I've got a laptop for anything else I need. My phone is for email, light web browsing and a couple of apps (ie slack). And it's secure, fast and reliable.
    • by Malc ( 1751 )

      "Still" using a 5s? They're not that old! My wife is still using her 4s, and is pretty happy with it. She didn't upgrade to iOS 9 mind you. I find it amazing how much people feel is acceptable to spend on a phone these days and how frequently they feel they _have_ to upgade. I'm happy with my 5s BTW, except the battery is rubbish compared with the four year 4 I had before it, but that was a problem from day one.

  • Nope.
  • Apple's hardware has become notably more expensive in comparsion in recent years. Their phones lead the pack with 300-400 Euros premium on top of the regular market price of non-Apple products. I'm currently using a new Moto G2 (you can still get them online) for 130 Euros - it's better than the iPhone 5s that goes for north of 500 Euros.

    Same goes for computers. For almost a decade the Mac Mini was a steal, with any compareable PC costing 200-300 Euros more. Now there are quite a few micro-PCs out there and

  • Since I recently lost my iPad, I could do with a replacement iOS device.

    iOS isn't the greatest, but it is the most popular among app developers so I need to have an iOS device for professional reasons.

    I don't like iPhone, so iPad it is.

  • by Torp ( 199297 )

    I need a new phone in my family real soon now(tm) due to an older iPhone 4S dying.
    No one here wants a tablet in their pocket/purse, so we won't consider anything more than 4".
    It's nice to get the small format on non crippled hardware again.

    Tbh, this would be the first time i actually buy an Apple product on launch :)

  • by DogDude ( 805747 ) on Monday March 21, 2016 @10:01AM (#51743071)
    I still can't believe people use these things. I suppose that Candy Crush and Tinder are more important than a modern interface to most people. Very surprising to me. I'm going to stick with my Windows Phone, thanks!
  • by JoeyRox ( 2711699 ) on Monday March 21, 2016 @10:12AM (#51743181)
    They called me up last night and asked if I've heard about Apple's new doohickey.
  • No, I'm not excited. Why? Because, based on past experience, their release will no doubt be accompanied by essentially mandatory firmware updates that will degrade performance on my current, perfectly usable, Apple devices (iPhone 5S and iPad Air 2).

  • by krray ( 605395 )

    I want the iPhone 4S form factor and durability with LTE. I only upgraded my wife's 5S to the 6S to take her old 5S. It was closest in size / durability w/ LTE.

    The 6 is a joke. Too big IMHO. I see people talking on their monster Samsung's and Apple's and frankly it looks ridiculous. Then again, I still have a land line (not really, VoIP'd 15 years ago, but still "house phones" :).

    The only problem with what I want is my aging eyes. At 40 their ability to focus properly completely failed. I can't see my scree

  • So I am not nearly as excited as when the first, admitedly revolutionary, iPad came out. Too bad they have not released anything remarkable after that. Apple should have licensed older, established products to partners while focusing on truly mind blowing technology to build in house. Then we could be talking about fully practical iPad VR today.

  • Tim Cook (Score:2, Troll)

    by Luthair ( 847766 )
    Least Interesting Man in the World

Order and simplification are the first steps toward mastery of a subject -- the actual enemy is the unknown. -- Thomas Mann