Slashdot Asks: What Are Some Insults No Developer Wants To Hear? (infoworld.com) 523
snydeq writes: Flame wars in the bug tracker might be exactly the right (harsh) feedback your code needs, writes Peter Wayner in his run-down of the insults no programmer wants to hear about their code or coding skills. "The technology world is a bit different than the pretty, coiffed world of suits and salesdroids where everyone is polite, even when they hate your guts and think you're an idiot. Suit-clad managers may smile and hide their real message by the way they say you're doing "great, real great pal," but programmers often speak their minds, and when that mind has something unpleasant to say, look-out, feelings." Instead of posting this story in a click-bait fashion as presented from InfoWorld, we thought we'd ask the developers of Slashdot: What are some insults no developer wants to hear? Some of the classic insults include: N00b, /dev/null, Eye Candy, Fanboi, and [Nothing]. Are there any insults you are familiar with that aren't mentioned in the list?
Ooops (Score:5, Informative)
It compiled cleanly, so he shipped it.
Grampa (Score:2)
I live in fear of losing my edge and becoming irrelevant. Maybe I already have.
"Did you even test this??!!!" (Score:5, Funny)
Re:"Did you even test this??!!!" (Score:5, Insightful)
"Yes but as I'm not a moron I never thought of the user story from your perspective..."
I hope this was intended as a joke in poor taste.
Something really hard for some developers to understand is that our peer groups are usually not representative of our user base. We're used to hanging around with really bright people, people who apply logic to questions and use evidence to arrive at conclusions. When we forget that not everyone in the world is like that, we assume that everyone who touches our applications is smart, quick, logical, and willing to read instructions. In reality, we should be constantly aware that 50% of our users are literally below average (by definition, not because we think they're "morons".)
That means a lot of attention needs to be paid to User Experience. A few years ago we went through our application and made sure that every screen was at a 5th grade reading level. We made sure our users could be trained on the basic functions, features, and processes in less than half an hour. Error messages have to be focused on correcting the problem, not accusing the users of being "morons" and making a mistake, and not leaving them fearing punishment. And if a person runs into a feature that's difficult, frequently gives them error messages, or that takes them a long time to figure out, it's not their fault that the UI didn't help them. It's the UI that needs work.
Re:"Did you even test this??!!!" (Score:5, Insightful)
I agree with most of your user interface principles, except for the the "fifth grade reading level" one. You might have a point, but I really don't like talking down to grown-ass adults.
I've worked on software where I put a lot of thought into describing the error in clear, complete, accurate, and accessible terms, only to be told that the users aren't going to "even bother to read it because it's too long". In my view, the kind of people who object to error messages that are complete sentences and contain three-syllable words are the kind of people who won't read any error message under any circumstances, but whatever. "ERR 34: Bad srvc" it is. Choke on it.
Re:"Did you even test this??!!!" (Score:5, Insightful)
In my view, the kind of people who object to error messages that are complete sentences and contain three-syllable words are the kind of people who won't read any error message under any circumstances, but whatever. "ERR 34: Bad srvc" it is. Choke on it.
*sigh* The error message isn't for that user, it's for the person they call for help.
Re:"Did you even test this??!!!" (Score:5, Insightful)
Which is why error messages need to be two-part dialogs. There needs to first be a friendly, clear, non-technical message intended for the end user indicating that something went wrong, it probably isn't their fault, and that they should pass the error on to either their IT staff or the developer (depending on the situation), and second a more technical error message, possibly hidden behind a "more information" button, actually describing what went wrong for whoever the message is passed on to so they can debug the problem.
If the technical error is all that the end user sees, their only reaction will be to mash buttons until they can continue with whatever they were doing, and get mad when that doesn't work.
Re:"Did you even test this??!!!" (Score:5, Insightful)
*sigh* The error message isn't for that user, it's for the person they call for help.
Then it's a crap error message. This is one thing that IBM actually has completely fucking nailed, at least as compared to anyone else. They give you an informative error message and a unique code. The error message is for anyone who happens to be at the keyboard. The code is for techs.
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:"Did you even test this??!!!" (Score:4, Insightful)
At one point my then employer and I had a great idea, which we never implemented, that we should show pictures with each error message, so the call would go "Hey, I just used your product, and it showed me a picture of a tree and said 'Software Error'", "A tree? Ah, that means you're out of memory. Might mean a memory leak. Can you tell me what you were doing before you saw the tree..."
That probably is one of the best ideas I have heard in a while. It would likely give the user something they would remember that would be able to provide useful info.
Re: (Score:3)
They never pass bit on.
When you say "99% of users never use a feature", then removing that feature makes sense. When you say that "99% of users never report the descriptive error code", and use that as justification to remove the error code entirely, then you guarantee that 100% of users cannot report helpful diagnostic information.
It's super annoying to have a problem with a piece of software, carefully record the details so you can debug things and maybe work towards fixing the problem, only to find that the provided error cod
Re:"Did you even test this??!!!" (Score:5, Interesting)
I agree with most of your user interface principles, except for the the "fifth grade reading level" one. You might have a point, but I really don't like talking down to grown-ass adults.
Speaking as a professional writer, I don't think you quite grasp the principle.
A while ago, I saw a bunch of conservative commentators mocking the President because his speeches scored (via various accepted algorithms) at an eighth grade reading level. Their take was that he was either an idiot himself or that he thought everybody else was stupid and was condescending to them. On the contrary; his speeches score at an eighth grade level because he has some of the best speechwriters in the business.
Look at it this way, and imagine you're writing copy for a dialog box:
"Touching the active heating element is extremely dangerous and can result in burns." -- Score: Grade 10.4
"Don't put your hand on the stove." -- Score: -0.7
The second version literally scores as sub-zero grade level, meaning ANYONE who can read can understand it. So you tell me. If you used the second version in your dialog box, would you be "talking down to people"?
Re: (Score:3)
Error messages have to be focused on correcting the problem, not accusing the users of being "morons" and making a mistake, and not leaving them fearing punishment.
I'm reminded of a recent experience on the "support" site for a television I'd recently bought. The TV had a bug where it would turn itself on once per day, based on a timer that could not be turned off. I figured a firmware update might fix things, so I go to the site, which has almost nothing on it except for a prompt for model number of the TV. I type in the model number and hit enter:
"Wrong number!" says the error page, prompting me again to enter the serial number.
And that's it. I'm just wrong, and I n
Re: (Score:2)
Error messages have to be focused on correcting the problem, not accusing the users of being "morons" and making a mistake, and not leaving them fearing punishment. And if a person runs into a feature that's difficult, frequently gives them error messages, or that takes them a long time to figure out, it's not their fault that the UI didn't help them. It's the UI that needs work.
The opening line of Anna Karenina [wikipedia.org] is, "All happy families are alike. But each unhappy family is miserable in its own way".
All solvable problems are alike. But each unsolvable problem fails its own unique way. Demanding the UI to know every possible error that could be in the data and find the solution to tell the user what to do next is the classic demand from the management, sales and support engineers who do not really understand how the software works.
All we can do is to validate the data to make
Re: (Score:2)
The Logitech MX mouse, their famous original free-wheeling wireless mouse, cannot be found on their web site without using a very specific search string. This was some years back.
Re: (Score:3)
Something really hard for some developers to understand is that our peer groups are usually not representative of our user base. We're used to hanging around with really bright people, people who apply logic to questions and use evidence to arrive at conclusions. When we forget that not everyone in the world is like that, we assume that everyone who touches our applications is smart, quick, logical, and willing to read instructions.
True, but they also need to realize that there are really bright people, people who apply logic to questions and use evidence to arrive at conclusion who don't have any interest in coding and or find it boring.
In reality, we should be constantly aware that 50% of our users are literally below average (by definition, not because we think they're "morons".)
By definition, 50% of coders are below average as well.
That means a lot of attention needs to be paid to User Experience. A few years ago we went through our application and made sure that every screen was at a 5th grade reading level. We made sure our users could be trained on the basic functions, features, and processes in less than half an hour. Error messages have to be focused on correcting the problem, not accusing the users of being "morons" and making a mistake, and not leaving them fearing punishment. And if a person runs into a feature that's difficult, frequently gives them error messages, or that takes them a long time to figure out, it's not their fault that the UI didn't help them. It's the UI that needs work.
Very true. Far too often the actual user experience gets overlooked in the drive to create beautiful code. In the end, no matter how beautiful the code is it's still trash if it doesn't meet the user's needs.
Re: (Score:3)
I just love it when a PHB tells you the project timeline before you even have a list of requirements. That always ends well.
Re: (Score:3)
This may sound stupid but, it's actually a sound idea (though you probably, as a company, want people to do this at home for insurance reasons) because end users are not all going to be sober professionals that are familiar with the product. Having the party girl/boy at the front desk test it after a night on the town can really show some odd use cases that will show up once the software is in the wild.
Your mom is so fat (Score:5, Funny)
the recursive function computing her mass causes a stack overflow.
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
the simplest are the most devastating (Score:2)
Biggest insult... (Score:5, Funny)
Wow this is microsoft quality!
Re: (Score:2)
Wow this is microsoft quality!
"Did you recycle this code from Microsoft Bob?"
The worst (Score:2)
You must be making this up (Score:2)
A male, maybe, could get away with speaking of another male worker's genetic endowment.
In my part of the world, the second remark would bring an immediate lawsuit. Heck, they would conduct mandatory polygraph tests to determine if anyone was even thinking that.
Re: (Score:3)
"You got a little d*ck" is always the worst.
Well, not really unless you're insecure about it. It's also not very programmer specific. A better developer insult:
"Can you fix that code your intern wrote?" (Note: there was never an intern, so it's your code)
Re: (Score:2)
Have you ever tried telling a woman that she's got a little dick? I'd think twice.
You're a... (Score:2)
Loss confidence was biggest insult. (Score:5, Interesting)
In the 15 years of my professional career, there's only been one day when I didn't want to come to work.
That was the day after the IT department accused me of intentionally crashing their network, and my Director didn't back me up.
That loss of confidence in my integrity was far worse than any spoken word.
Re: (Score:3)
Re:Loss confidence was biggest insult. (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3)
I resigned from for cause when
What's the difference between resigning for cause and not for cause? Are there tax benefits?
ALL OF THEM (Score:5, Insightful)
Anything from someone who is better at it than you (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
MEDIOCRE!!! (Score:2)
All of my code is shiny & chrome.
Re: (Score:2)
Also, do we all know about @SwearengenCD [twitter.com]? He goes a long time between tweets sometimes, but his backlog is hilarious. And close to home some days.
Re: (Score:2)
Will it run eternal on the servers of Valhalla?
Work for Microsoft? (Score:2)
It used to be that we could insult someone by implying that they learned to code at Microsoft. Even if they actually worked there.
These days, you can run bash on Windows, so I guess I’ve run out of ideas.
Re: (Score:2)
Ah, those were the days.... here, have some old-school ammo...
"Mac users switching to Linux is PROOF the homosexuality is a choice and it can be cured" ... tho that maybe more troll than insult. Not sure maybe it depends on the forum/context?
My personal favorite (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:3)
This code is so poorly documented that Donald Trump wants to send it back to Mexico!
That's not fair. His beef is with access violations.
"Your code isn't modular enough" (Score:2)
Why are you not putting in 60-80 hours a week? (Score:3)
Why are you not putting in 60-80 hours a week?
Apu does and we don't even pay as much as you.
BeauSD (Score:5, Insightful)
Sorry, but so far, almost every story posted by BeauHD has been completely irrelevant. Perhaps SD is better than HD? Either way, all his posted stories don't belong on this site. They're all click bait.
You've never used our product, have you? (Score:4, Funny)
Reverse insult (Score:5, Insightful)
Wow, your code is so complex I can't understand it.
Re: (Score:2)
I'm not sure which way this goes.
A good developer takes pride in writing the simplest code possible to solve a problem. If another developer cannot understand it, is the problem the reviewer, or the coder?
Re:Reverse insult (Score:4, Insightful)
A good developer takes pride in writing the simplest code possible to solve a problem. If another developer cannot understand it, is the problem the reviewer, or the coder?
Define "simplest". Many developers take it to mean the fewest possible lines of code, which is often anything but simple or legible. Much better to write something in 10 lines that is verbose and can be grokked immediately than something in 5 lines that relies on obscure features of the language or non-obvious logic.
Re: (Score:2)
I'm not sure which way this goes.
A good developer takes pride in writing the simplest code possible to solve a problem. If another developer cannot understand it, is the problem the reviewer, or the coder?
I have always communicated with the rule that if you don't understand what I am saying, it's my fault. It's far safer (and more likely to be correct) to assume that the failure is with the speaker than the listener, and I think the same goes for code. Not all code is necessarily easy to understand, but if it isn't then it should be well documented. And if you think the problem is the reviewer then you really shouldn't be getting it reviewed, because you don't care or trust what they say anyway.
Not an insult, but (Score:2)
My least favourite word in the English language is just. "Just do ...", or "It's simple, just..."
You hired me for my expertise and the quality work I deliver. I have a track record with this firm spanning several years of high-quality delivery and being right about nearly every technical and process call I've made. But feel free to walk in and denigrate all of that value by telling me to just ...
Re: (Score:2)
It's the most fatal phrase in IT: "It's Simple! All You Have To Do Is..."
AYHTDI is repeated endlessly by people who think that because Little Johnny can write a program to make a block move back and forth on the screen that a Little Johnny could recreate EBay in a day.
Well, Little Johnny is a Boy Scout with a First Aid merit badge and we're scheduling him to do your liver transplant next Thursday.
The one I dread (Score:2)
"Hey look! Your code snippet is today's featured article on The Daily WTF!"
I kid because I love (Score:3)
So, a developer went to the doctor, he said, "Doctor, what's wrong with me?"
Doctor: "You're fat.".
Developer: "I want a second opinion."
Doctor: "OK, you're ugly, too."
"Flip the Bozo bit". (Score:2)
Said in reference to someone who has said or done something exceedingly stupid. But the real meaning is that anything that they say or do in the future will not be taken seriously since they are now regarded as a bozo.
Here's one that really gets under their skin (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3)
never bothered to learn how to interact effectively with other human beings
The API documentation sucks.
Not sure why would I want to insult devs... (Score:4, Insightful)
People have very long memories, especially in the career department when their house, and food for their family is on the line. Wisecracking about devs in general in IT is one thing. Insulting people to their face or their manager's face is not exactly a very wise career move.
Plus, devs have heard it all. They have heard they can be replaced by offshore dev houses, H-1Bs, monkeys, or almost anything. They are not going to perform any better when someone continues to compare them with inanimate objects or people in a persistent vegetative state.
To boot, there may be a good chance that the college intern or H-1B fresh off the boat that is the brunt of insults this week may be one's manager the the next week after a corporate reorg or a buyout.
Having a bug named for you (Score:2)
And not a Draeni (Score:2)
"Your penis is kind of small."
Oh, wait. He wants to hear this because it means he's finally gotten with a girl.
Re: (Score:2)
because it means he's finally gotten with a girl.
It probably means the doctor is about to suggest an alternative treatment.
Insults? Not so much. Enragers? Plenty: (Score:2)
Pet Enragers:
- It's all finished, just needs to be programmed.
- Can't you just write a three-liner and fix this?
- That's not important for the requirements, that's just technical stuff.
- Why is this taking so long? My nephew can do this in two days.
- I need the image in 300dpi (web development, where print resolution means squat).
Re: (Score:2)
I need the image in 300dpi (web development, where print resolution means squat).
Webpages can be printed. If your website has images on it, they may need to be at a higher resolution than displayed on screen, so they will print out well. ;)
It always enrages me when people can't imagine use-cases beyond their own experience
Retina display (Score:3)
I agree with your first four pet enragers. As for the fifth:
I need the image in 300dpi (web development, where print resolution means squat).
What's the pixel density of an iPad mini tablet with Retina display? Wikipedia says 326 dpi [wikipedia.org].
Resource (Score:2)
I agree with the article on that one. A word that is often used to dehumanize people.
If a project is late, we can just "throw in more resources"!
One of my co-workers was once told by the business product owner to get her application finished in unreasonable time. When he expressed his concerns, she basically told him that she would replace him any time with a bunch of "developers from the street" who would get the job done faster than him.
We're Going With Webs.com (Score:2)
I built a website for my Synagogue, donating my time and effort. Then, they had some staff turnover. I tried to meet with the new administrator to talk about future work on the site and was told "Oh, we're not using that site anymore,I know how to make websites so I'm going to do it." Of course, by "knows how to make websites", he meant he opened up a Webs.com account, used their drag and drop tools to put together a few pages, and gave everyone that address. My skills in custom coding a website to the
You are a hamster (Score:2)
and your code smells of elderberries.
I'm only a hobby dev (Score:2)
But this one is straight from med school. From Dr. O., may you rest in peace. When anyone shows "initiative":
"There's nothing worse than a fool with initiative"
Everyone hated rotating with him. I actually had a nice time :)
Suck and suck less... (Score:2)
My six-month internship as a software tester was for the WorldsAway virtual world at Fujitsu in 1997-98. I came across a graphic bug that I wrote up with the word "suck" to describe the problem. The artist/programmer made a fix and marked the bug as fixed. I reported back that the graphic "sucked less" than before and re-opened the bug. The artist/programmer immediately came over to ream me out for using the word "suck" in a bug report. After he left, my boss looked at me and said, "Damn, you're good! He us
There's a free iPhone app that can do that (Score:2)
*silence* (Score:2)
The worst insult is when somebody submits a bug report, you fix it or ask for more information and then they never reply again.
If somebody throws an insult at you, it at least means they cared enough about the project to spend time on it.
Words like "fanboi" and "n00b" aren't proper insults.
Whoever uses those kinds of words merely demonstrates their own incomprehension.
Otherwise they would have made substantive arguments.
Being ranked lower (Score:2)
"Sigh. Here, I'll just fix it." (Score:4, Insightful)
You don't have to insult them. Just do their job for them and they'll get the point.
systemd (Score:5, Funny)
systemd
Insult no programmer wants to hear: (Score:5, Funny)
"You code like a UX designer"
Those are fighting words. :)
no news is good news (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:no news is good news (Score:5, Insightful)
Why would that be? Because you're a diva, you think you're the best coder ever and don't have anything to learn anymore? It might hurt your ego?
Grow a pair and accept constructive criticism. I'd take harsh but constructive feedback from Linus anyday, he's one of the most succesful coders on Earth right now. Why wouldn't you want to get some input from him?
Re:no news is good news (Score:5, Insightful)
Dude, you kidding? I'd *kill* to get some of his time to go over the stuff I write!
Why? Because I'd frickin' *learn* from it, that's why...
Seriously - never fear honest criticism from people who are way better at it than you are.
Re: (Score:3)
Generally if Linus is railing on you about something, it's ...
... because you've done something braindead stupid.
Re: (Score:3)
I'm guilty of similar.
"What the hell were you thinking?"
answer about thinking about security by design
"clearly not, since I can overflow your input right here."
but you shouldn't do that
"and your code shouldn't roll over and die just because of malformed input!"
That landed me in a meeting about sensitivity.
Mind you, this was a public facing API I was criticizing and the dev had rejected the bug I filed on it for this reason.
-nbr
Re:Insult no programmer wants to hear: (Score:5, Funny)
Actually, most of the cows I know are outstanding in their field. :-)
Re:Insult no programmer wants to hear: (Score:5, Funny)
Actually, most of the cows I know are outstanding in their field. :-)
Only until you reach a tipping point...
Re:What?! (Score:4, Insightful)
Insults are the first refuge of the insecure. I'm not talking Torvalds-style insults of the code, I'm talking about when they insult you.
Bad code deserves insults, although not all insulted code is bad, since people will insult good code as an indirect insult of the coder, which is completely different.
Flaming people in order to build oneself up by putting other people down is at least as old as the Internet, but it's not conducive to better coding - it's more likely to drive away people who could potentially be valuable contributors.
Because of that, there is at least one online forum (coderanch.com) whose primary purpose is to allow people to ask stupid questions with the assurance that they won't be flamed.
Re: (Score:2)
"Insults are the first refuge of the insecure" - not necessarily. When I'm the one who has to clean up someone's else fucked-up shit - AGAIN, I'm not always going to be nice about.
Especially when they're doing it THE WRONG FUCKING WAY. Again, for the 10th time, when they've been told how NOT to do it.
Careful, someone who doesn't take kindly to those remarks might want to have a private meeting with you in the parking lot, kicking the shit out of you.
Re: (Score:3)
Since you said AGAIN, that implies that the insults were not your first refuge. Perhaps they're the first refuge of the insecure and the 4th refuge of the fed-up.
Re:Is this a joke? (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm a strong advocate of constructive code reviews that provide useful feedback, while leaving the egos and personal stuff out. It's important for everyone to participate, to both give and receive feedback. First, you help your team improve your product. Second, you learn about the new sections of code; how the new functionality was implemented. That's important on a large product.
And then there's the one that many of the old guys overlook: nobody knows it all, so everyone can learn from anyone, including the new kid on the team. We can all see how technology and computers have evolved dramatically over the decades; it's a mistake to believe that software design and engineering hasn't been simultaneously evolving for the better.
Consistency is important (Score:3)
Yes, they try to give feedback about readability and code style and they should. Yes, your code is likely perfectly correct and works fine. If you were writing an app yourself or some small solo programming project, that would be fine. But, in today's world, dozens or hundreds of people work on a coding project and dozens will have to read it and edit it years later with no one from the original team being available to walk them through it. This means that coding styles and conventions become important
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
And if you have no living enemies, you stood up, crushed your enemies, saw them driven before you, and heard the lamentations of the suits.
Re:Is this a joke? (Score:5, Funny)
I don't care one bit for your condescending, flippant attitude about line wrapp$
And while I was stapling punch cards to vacuum tubes in the golden age of compu$
I single-handedly rewrote our nuclear missile guidance systems on an 80x24 term$
And the whole time I was with Tim Leary ripped in half on sunshine acid and amy$
Look I'm sorry for what I said earlier about your mother, I just get cranky abo$
Constantly trampling my prize zinnias! And my fescue isn't going to reseed itse$
Jesus they're back, I have to go chase them off while waving a rake in the air.
Re: Ralph Nader (Score:2)
Re: Ralph Nader (Score:2)
Found Jenny McCarthy.
Re: (Score:2)
This story made it, and the story about Elsevier's war on Sci-Hub didn't?
Re: (Score:2)
This story is exhibit A why I haven't been to the site in over a year. It's not only completely contentless, it's insulting, stupid, and not even funny.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:All of them (Score:5, Insightful)
One should be grateful for one's mother's sexual habits.
Re: (Score:2)
That's right. It's Simple! All You Have To Do Is...
Re: (Score:3)
Ironically, it generally seems that I don't spend all that much time - relatively speaking - on the big, deep tech issues.
Where most of the project time gets eaten up is in the stupid little ordinary details. It's not uncommon to lose nearly 2 whole days because of a slipped comma or a dash where there should have been an underscore or a mismatched quote.
A lot of times, it doesn't take a technical wizard to spot such stuff, just someone who isn't seeing what should be there, instead of what is there. That's
Re: (Score:2)
I'm not a full time developer but am sometimes tasked to fix our dev's junk. The last thing they want to hear is someone telling them that I'll be consulting until they are back on track.
They don't like working with me because I'm an "Unknown quantity". {basically I'm more comfortable with c or c++ than whatever angular, jquery, or framework of the moment they happen to be using}
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
My favorite is: Where did you learn to code, VB6?